Century Center

[ErnestA]

I really think Mahogany is the wrong tenant, as it will only be a few nights a week. I'd rather see a cafe or a La Madeline's or Panera Bread type concept that would get much more use and double as a wi-fi hotspot for remote entrepreneurs.

I think so too. This space has the potential to be the living room of the city, and to make it another special-event, starchy steakhouse is a huge miscalculation. Just because more can afford a place doesn't mean it'll look trashy. My vision for this space would have been an upscale diner like this one in DC: New and Exciting | Menu | The Diner

[Urbanized]

I think so too. This space has the potential to be the living room of the city, and to make it another special-event, starchy steakhouse is a huge miscalculation. Just because more can afford a place doesn't mean it'll look trashy. My vision for this space would have been an upscale diner like this one in DC: New and Exciting | Menu | The Diner

Again, I really doubt in any way that this is a "huge miscalculation." The place is likely instead to be a huge success. Is it what you or others might want to see? Obviously not, based on your comments. Personally I too would be excited about a place like you suggest; probably more so than I am about Mahogany. But the place is going to bank; mark it down. Not sure how that qualifies as ANY type of miscalculation, from a business standpoint. Sometimes the hyperbole here gets a little thick.

[soonerguru]

A lot of restaurateurs here have a mindless herd mentality. Everything is always meat and potatoes. I realize they're in business to make a profit but there are very few inventive concepts -- particularly from restaurant groups like Hal Smith.

People in this city are hungry for more -- and for more inventive culinary options.

In a five block radius we have three prime steakhouses now. Additionally, restaurants like Flint, Vast and others feature, you guessed it, steak on their menus.

It's ridiculous.

[Teo9969]

We are really not that close, especially considering the life span of restaurants, to try and make this corner restaurant something other than some type of "special-event" place. Being a more special event type place gives activity to this restaurant after 5PM. If it was just another Cafe 7/La Madeline type place, it would be closed at 3PM.

However, I also don't know if I see an Upscale Steakhouse opening for lunch. Would love to be proven wrong, but if I were a betting man, I'd put money on a 4 - 5 PM opening.

[Teo9969]

On another note...I think the ambiance of Mahogany suits this corner to absolute perfection. I just wish it was something more inventive than a steakhouse.

[Bellaboo]

A lot of restaurateurs here have a mindless herd mentality. Everything is always meat and potatoes. I realize they're in business to make a profit but there are very few inventive concepts -- particularly from restaurant groups like Hal Smith.

People in this city are hungry for more -- and for more inventive culinary options.

In a five block radius we have three prime steakhouses now. Additionally, restaurants like Flint, Vast and others feature, you guessed it, steak on their menus.
It's ridiculous.

They have other options on their menus, you're not required to order steak.

[Dubya61]

Additionally, restaurants like Flint, Vast and others feature, you guessed it, steak on their menus.
It's ridiculous.

They have other options on their menus, you're not required to order steak.

I didn't get a harumph from that guy!

[traxx]

I didn't get a harumph from that guy!

Got to do with where choo choo go.

[Rover]

The is a perfect corner for a McCormick and Schmick's. Or, their more casual version, M&S Grille. Right product. Right price. Right ambiance.

[Mississippi Blues]

They have other options on their menus, you're not required to order steak.

While he has a point, it's beyond common for people to make an argument that proves their point more than disproves it, so for him to word it & argue it the way he did is to be expected.

Not trying to make either of you look foolish or anything like that, just my $0.02 is all.

[Rover]

For over 35 years I have been entertaining business guests from around the country and around the world. Without a doubt, the two most common requests for an evening restaurant spot is a steakhouse or a seafood restaurant. And in Oklahoma, Texas, Chicago and Kansas City it is 90% requests for a steakhouse...we are all known for our beef. Anyone opening and hoping to get the corporate (read "expense account") business, they start with a quality steak offering. And that is why I like McCormick and Schmick's, they have good beef and seafood. Capital Grille would be good too.

[Rover]

Don't forget about Red. It is excellent. MMantles is good. But a national name would be a sort of validation and is familiar on national corporate expense reports.

[betts]

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.

[ErnestA]

Sometimes the hyperbole here gets a little thick.

I agree, and freely admit to the exaggeration here. My point was really about choice of concept, not prospect for success.

[bchris02]

I think so too. This space has the potential to be the living room of the city, and to make it another special-event, starchy steakhouse is a huge miscalculation. Just because more can afford a place doesn't mean it'll look trashy. My vision for this space would have been an upscale diner like this one in DC: New and Exciting | Menu | The Diner

OKC could really use a place like that. I think 23rd St would be a good location. Personally, I think the steakhouse is perfect for the CBD. There are better locations for the trendy, unique stuff.

[Rover]

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.

I agree the nationals aren't any better, but most out of town business people who aren't being hosted by a local will choose a tried and true brand more often than experimenting with an unknown local brand. You sound like the exception, not the rule. And, I am more like you and try the locals.

[traxx]

I've eaten at every one of those national brand steakhouses, and none of them are better, or as good, as Red. When I'm visiting somewhere, I not only want to shop at unique stores, I want to eat at restaurants that are unique to the area, expense account or not.

I agree with this. You can travel across the country for a vacation and end up eating at a restaurant that's also 5 minutes from your house back home. That used to be part of the appeal of travel. Trying new places. Remember when someone would say "Oh you're going there on vacation? I've got this great restaurant you've gotta eat at." It's way too homogenized now. That's why I hate the idea of Zio's and Hooters etc. in Bricktown. I feel that B'Town should be all original and/or local specialty places.

[Rover]

I don't know any big time city that doesn't have at least SOME of the premium upscale chains. It is somewhat a measure of the robustness and upscale capabilities of the marketplace. And frankly, some of them are very good. We could use a good upscale seafood restaurant downtown....or anywhere... In the city.

[betts]

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

[bchris02]

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

I am really surprised OKC doesn't have a Bonefish Grill. That is a step above Red Lobster as far as seafood chains are concerned. They have one in Tulsa.

[Rover]

And one in Wichita.

[Rover]

I agree about the upscale seafood, but because no one local has attempted such a concept. My concern about the steak chains is that people are followers. Even the locals will go to a Ruth's Chris or Morton's rather than their superior local restaurants. So, even if it is a measure of how far we've come, I'm happy none are here, frankly.

And sometimes the nationals, the good ones, force the locals to up their game. Just like Whole Foods has ignited changes throughout the city with local groceries adding products and services they should have long ago. Good competition is good for consumers. People having no choices, or protectionism, isn't good for consumers.

BTW, let a good seafood restaurant come here and be successful and you will see more locals follow suit. Otherwise we get more burger and steak joints.

[bchris02]

And sometimes the nationals, the good ones, force the locals to up their game. Just like Whole Foods has ignited changes throughout the city with local groceries adding products and services they should have long ago. Good competition is good for consumers. People having no choices, or protectionism, isn't good for consumers.

BTW, let a good seafood restaurant come here and be successful and you will see more locals follow suit. Otherwise we get more burger and steak joints.

You are correct. Unfortunately, with the upscale chains its pretty much the same game we see with retail. They simply look at numbers, and they don't take into account disposable income, spread out wealth geographically, and the fact people in OKC are willing to drive farther than most cities. That's why you see upscale chains open in Tulsa, Wichita, and even Little Rock but pass OKC. Fortunately, with restaurants its not as big of a deal as local restauranteurs can many times do a superior job to chains.

However, OKC doesn't have any quality seafood though or so I hear. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Teo9969]

If we're going to go with a chain, I'd 500x prefer a Mahogany over a Ruth's Chris, a Morton's, or a Fleming's. In fact, I suspect that with this move, Hal is trying to develop the brand equity so that he can expand the concept into other parts of the country. I just hope that they expand their wine list at the Downtown location actually be willing to sit on some nice bottles and expand the by the glass selection.

The national brands are not going to compete with Red or the Ranch....They're just not, and locals are not going to start going to those establishments.

And for the record, with the advent of Urban Spoon/Open Table/Yelp out of towners can get a good idea of how good a place is before going in. And word of mouth still moves really well. Trust that the *strong* local brands are going to do well regardless of a major chain moving in.

[adaniel]

The national brands are not going to compete with Red or the Ranch....They're just not, and locals are not going to start going to those establishments.

And for the record, with the advent of Urban Spoon/Open Table/Yelp out of towners can get a good idea of how good a place is before going in. And word of mouth still moves really well. Trust that the *strong* local brands are going to do well regardless of a major chain moving in.

This.

I can only speak from my experience, but I go to Houston at least 3 times a year for business. We almost never eat at the Flemings/Ruth Chris national chain type places. Seems very 90's to me. I mean, whats the fun in going to a new place if you are just going to go to the same crap in your own town? At most, we will go to a local based chain, like Pappadeaux. Everyone has a Yelp or Urban Spoon app on their phone and we always try to find a local place. At the very least, we will ask some of the hotel staff or a local client we are meeting with, and they almost always pick some obscure, local place. Likewise, if we have a client come to our office, we will generally take them to lunch to a local place, usually downtown or midtown.

The Whole Foods/grocery store thing is probably not the fairest comparison because grocery stores in this area were so awful for so long. On the other hand, OKC has always been an eating out town, and has been a pretty decent one for the last few years. (although we need better seafood places, Pearls isn't cutting it LOL). And its always been locally skewed, even among suburbanites. Nobody is going to get excited over some chain on Memorial Road, but mention a place in the suburbs like Red Rock Canyon or Mama Rojas and everyone goes gaga. For this reason, it will be very hard for an upscale national steakhouse in this market. Plus, we practically slaughter the stuff in our backyard! I think it would be fair to say we know how to do steak here.