Streetcar

[Just the facts]

You will have to take it up with NYC Highway Dept Rover. They are the ones who said 53% of traffic ceased to exist. That fact laid the foundation for the realization of 'induced demand' - demand that only exists because capacity exists.

[BoulderSooner]

You will have to take it up with NYC Highway Dept Rover. They are the ones who said 53% of traffic ceased to exist. That fact laid the foundation for the realization of 'induced demand' - demand that only exists because capacity exists.

do you have a link from the nyc highway dept ??

[Just the facts]

do you have a link from the nyc highway dept ??

A link to traffic counts in 1973? No I don't. But a quick Google search should be able to validate the 53% reduction claim (I already posted one link).

Here is research from the University of Connecticut on the subject.

http://www.crcog.org/publications/Tr...adResearch.pdf

Check out the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway example in the referenced document.

Anyhow, we were talking about the streetcar weren't we.

[BoulderSooner]

A link to traffic counts in 1973? No I don't. But a quick Google search should be able to validate the 53% reduction claim (I already posted one link).

Here is research from the University of Connecticut on the subject.

http://www.crcog.org/publications/Tr...adResearch.pdf

Check out the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway example in the referenced document.

Anyhow, we were talking about the streetcar weren't we.

so your position is that over half the people that drove everyday on that road stopped their commute? took trains? what?

[Anonymous.]

I was not implying that a longer commute is the problem, I am talking about people trying to get out of garages along EKG being almost impossible with 6 lanes of traffic, and to imagine 4 is even more impressive.


I am not sure anyone here has a monthly pass for the Cox garage or the Santa Fe garage, but it is like playing frogger trying to pull into traffic because all the people who are already on EKG had to go through the same thing and are letting NO ONE in front of them. People repeatedly pull up in front of the garages while waiting @ the traffic lights and this even prevents people from turning left to go north.


I would love to see EKG with 2 lanes and street parking, but I think right now with the Cox Center still being there (and the garage underneath) it is logistically impossible to narrow EKG. Once the Cox Center is bulldozed, I think it is plausible.

[Just the facts]

so your position is that over half the people that drove everyday on that road stopped their commute? took trains? what?

53% of them took a train, consolidated trips, relocated closer to work, or just quit going altogether.

[Rover]

I am sure it was so frustrating to see the road go that 10s of thousands of people just instantly quit their jobs, lost interest in shopping, quit going to the museums, yada, yada, yada, and just quit going into NYC. LOL. I've got some swamp land to sell too. I will have great statistics up soon why swamp land is a great investment.

Most people don't just go cruising in NYC. The population swells during the day and shrinks after work. People commute in and out in many forms of transportation and various routes. Obviously the movement went somewhere, but I guarantee 50% didn't abandoned their car on this one action. But it makes a great story.

[BoulderSooner]

Like

[CaptDave]

I was not implying that a longer commute is the problem, I am talking about people trying to get out of garages along EKG being almost impossible with 6 lanes of traffic, and to imagine 4 is even more impressive.


I am not sure anyone here has a monthly pass for the Cox garage or the Santa Fe garage, but it is like playing frogger trying to pull into traffic because all the people who are already on EKG had to go through the same thing and are letting NO ONE in front of them. People repeatedly pull up in front of the garages while waiting @ the traffic lights and this even prevents people from turning left to go north.


I would love to see EKG with 2 lanes and street parking, but I think right now with the Cox Center still being there (and the garage underneath) it is logistically impossible to narrow EKG. Once the Cox Center is bulldozed, I think it is plausible.

Please corect me if I am mistaken Anonymous, but I thought left turns were prohibited exiting the east side of Santa Fe garage? If they aren't, that would solve some of the problem - especially when the Blvd connection to I40 is complete.

I wouldn't try to turn left at that location most times anyway, and to me it isn't a big deal to make a couple right turns to double back on Broadway or go through Bricktown and then north on Mantle/Walnut. Or what is so bad about going down Gaylord/Shields to I40?

Just a couple thoughts and I admit I do not park there as frequently as you.

[BoulderSooner]

The ability to make a right turn is a big problem

[CaptDave]

More difficult than turning left? That seems counterintuitive, but as I said, you guys are likely there more often than me.

[BoulderSooner]

More difficult than turning left? That seems counterintuitive, but as I said, you guys are likely there more often than me.

Left is clearly harder. But the problem is that it can be hard to turn right out of the garage

[Anonymous.]

I don't think you can turn left out of the Santa Fe, but you can out of the Cox.


Thunder game nights are especially bad leaving @ 5pm, because people are already coming downtown and VIP ticket members have game night passes for the Cox garage. Turning right or left out of the Cox garage is a nightmare, left is obviously more challenging. I think maybe a better traffic light flow could help.

[catch22]

If the street were narrower with on street parking, maybe people wouldn't cruise down EKG at 55mph thus making it easier to pull out, you'd be pulling into slower traffic instead of into a highway.

[Mr. Cotter]

I don't think you can turn left out of the Santa Fe, but you can out of the Cox.

You're not supposed to turn left from Santa Fe, but you can. I see people do it every day.

[CaptDave]

You're not supposed to turn left from Santa Fe, but you can. I see people do it every day.

That may be part of the problem. I think the city should make temporary changes with infrastructure and better signal programming to improve the area now. I think it would be wasteful and foolish to spend a large amount of money now when we know changes will be required when the streetcar and transit hub is constructed. Maybe start making incremental changes when the final hub design is done but do not build something that will need to be demolished in a couple years.

[Hutch]

I uploaded some old post cards to the "Nostalgia & Memories" section...thought I'd post this one here as well...

Broadway North of Grand Avenue

[betts]

Great picture! Broadway is the one street that could almost look like that again.

[soonerguru]

OKC really was a fabulously urban city at one point. It is shocking how much it was deleteriously altered by urban renewal. When you view old photos of OKC you're almost incredulous that it is the same city.

[Just the facts]

OKC really was a fabulously urban city at one point. It is shocking how much it was deleteriously altered by urban renewal. When you view old photos of OKC you're almost incredulous that it is the same city.

That is why I get mad when I hear people make excuses like "we can't do that", "people here won't use it", "we like our cars", "it is too expensive", etc.... We already did it once, now for some magical reason today's generation is incapable.

[OKCisOK4me]

The problem is we're an instant society and people don't want to deal with the hassle of building things if it's going to get in their way.

[CaptDave]

That is why I get mad when I hear people make excuses like "we can't do that", "people here won't use it", "we like our cars", "it is too expensive", etc.... We already did it once, now for some magical reason today's generation is incapable.

Same here - I wonder sometimes why I, as a transplant, seem to have a higher opinion of what OKC can be than those who have been here for the long haul. I have stuck around long after I could have left just because it is exciting to be part of a city's transformation. Even in my relatively short time here, the changes for the better have been astounding.

I would love to see what downtown would look like if you could overlay the newer buildings from 1970 on over the empty lots created by the Pei destruction and the Crosstown scar. Someone on here must have the ability to pull that off.....

[Just the facts]

I would love to see what downtown would look like if you could overlay the newer buildings from 1970 on over the empty lots created by the Pei destruction and the Crosstown scar. Someone on here must have the ability to pull that off.....

Please DON'T do that. I don't have enough alcohol in the house to survive looking at that picture.

[Plutonic Panda]

Please DON'T do that. I don't have enough alcohol in the house to survive looking at that picture.

Oh, well I was going to try and put my amateur rendering skills that I have been learning at one of my classes, to work. What if I ship some Sky Vodka in a gas tanker that says subsidized by campbell sadeghy, will that be okay??? lol jk

[CaptDave]

Please DON'T do that. I don't have enough alcohol in the house to survive looking at that picture.

Tell you what, let's wait until you visit OKC again and I will provide the "tonic" to ease your (and my) pain. The Reverend Elijah Craig would have to work some magic...

But I would love to see what it could have been - it may even inspire more people if they are provided a visual. OKC is not bad or terrible or finished because of mistakes in the past. To the city's credit I think we have learned from most of those mistakes, but maybe a little reminder would do some good if it is slightly different from anything offered before.