Bricktown Warehouses

[traxx]

Merge if you like but I thought this could use it's own thread instead of necro-bumping a dead thread.


Bricktown is more or less what got the ball rolling for the downtown rennaissance but it seems it's being forgotten. And it's the fault of the developers for it being this way. If I'm not mistaken, most of the Bricktown warehouses still have empty upper floors. Why not lease these out to businesses for office space. Not everything in Bricktown has to be a restaurant or retail (although Bricktown could use a lot more sustainable retail). But the second and third floors of these warehouses aren't necessarily the place to put such retail.

These floors would be great places for small businesses to lease as office space. If you were a self employed architect or an accountant or maybe a small law firm or a real estate agent (agency) etc. There are all kinds of possibilities for small businesses and self employed businesses to lease office space. There's no good reason for all that space to sit untapped. It would bring even more vitality and work day foot traffic to the area. I can't imagine that the build-out cost would be that great or cost prohibitive for nice looking office space.

Maybe since I'm not in the development game I just don't get what it is the prevents this from being done. I hoped for years that those buildings would become multi-use. Then after years of the space being empty and realizing that wasn't coming, I tried to understand for years as to why it wouldn't or couldn't happen.

[Mississippi Blues]

Steve has mentioned in his chats, I believe, that the owners are becoming more open to the thought of renting or selling (?) the (empty) upper floors as living space. I do like your idea though. Anything besides empty space is always welcome & appreciated.

[traxx]

At least that's something.

I believe that the owners of those buildings thought that they could get a lot more $ out of that space because of the resurgence that Bricktown enjoyed in the early days of the canal and the ballpark. Perhaps they're understanding that they'll never see that kind of money and getting some money out of it is better than it sitting empty. And I would think that they could still get a pretty handsome sum out of those spaces.

[Anonymous.]

It costs money to renevote spaced unliviable, to livable. In addition to thsi up front capital, many of the owners do not actually live in OKC and are difficult to contact and whatnot.

Also greed plays a role as well, if someone wants to take over X amount of floors of their building, then how is this appraised etc. It seems like more of an issue of getting grumpy owners to cooperate.


However, you make this thread at an odd time. Both the Merchantile and the building that houses the Brewery and Brix are both under planning for renovations (see respective threads in Urban Dev.)



I would like to know how many open floors/space there is in the Candy Factory building.

[kevinpate]

Are there not nearly as many buildings with upper floor use as there are buildings with empty upper floor space?

[Urbanized]

There are many, many buildings with upper floors already fully renovated and leased as office spaces for attorneys, architects, investment firms, energy companies, engineering firms, education-oriented firms, an actual university program, consultants, government contractors and others. Many tens of thousands of square feet have been developed, in fact. The Harding and Shelton building is a great example. Several of the buildings lining the canal and a number of buildings lining Sheridan and also Main have received the same treatment.

While there are without question a number of great opportunities for upper floor development remaining, it is a commonly-held and grossly untrue public misperception that nearly all of the upper floors are empty. This is mostly due to Bricktown historically doing an incredibly poor job of communicating its own successes, outside of entertainment venue development.

[catch22]

I've kind of been hoping that a mid-sized company would come relocate here and use Bricktown as a makeshift campus. Lease out any vacant space and infill some of the lots. Some kind of large, private project like that.

Now this is a great idea. Our best bet for significant infill is a large private project with the vision you describe. I think some of the smaller lots could definitely be built on, but as part of a greater project. I don't think we are quite there yet (in Bricktown) for small lots to get built up independently.

[Urbanized]

Actually, Lower Bricktown would be perfectly-suited for that type of infill. I know that there are people on here who fantasize about demolishing it and starting over, but that is just that; pure fantasy. When you have a bunch of fully-occupied buildings with positive cash flow at market rate, it's never going to happen. Besides, most of LBT's shortcomings could be overcome with infill. A TIFF-funded structured parking garage where the current Toby Keith's surface lot is, with infill on all of the empty spaces currently lining the canal south of Reno and presto, it's suddenly a great neighborhood, relatively speaking. It would be a great opportunity for the campus-like development you suggest, Sid. Another advantage is that they would only have to negotiate with a single entity. This would actually be an incredibly easy feat to pull off, with the right company.

[kevinpate]

Thanks Urbanized. I thought I had heard here and elsewhere there was a lot more occupied space than many might realize.

[Mississippi Blues]

Sid wins. He's redeveloping LB.

[hoya]

Yeah, the buildings actually in Lower Bricktown are not too bad. It's the abundance of surface parking and the positioning of it that hurts LBT. More infill in key locations could solve most of those problems. I think we may have to wait until Deep Deuce fills up, spills down into East Bricktown, and then that fills up too, before anyone starts building up LBT. Unless, as you said, we get a single private investor to come in and do it.

[Dubya61]

... This is mostly due to Bricktown historically doing an incredibly poor job of communicating its own successes, outside of entertainment venue development.

Film Row has Shipwreck touting the neighborhood on OKC Talk and Facebook. Midtown has a similar PR person. Does no one have this responsibility or care for Bricktown?

[Just the facts]

I'll let Kerry draw the pictures.

It' easy, just pretend cars don't exist and then when you get done, find a place to put them that is out of the way. My pickup shouldn't get a better view of the canal than I do while I am at a restaurant. Maybe I need to get a bumper sticker that reads, "My car went to OKC. It had a great time".

[metro]

Merge if you like but I thought this could use it's own thread instead of necro-bumping a dead thread.


Bricktown is more or less what got the ball rolling for the downtown rennaissance but it seems it's being forgotten. And it's the fault of the developers for it being this way. If I'm not mistaken, most of the Bricktown warehouses still have empty upper floors. Why not lease these out to businesses for office space. Not everything in Bricktown has to be a restaurant or retail (although Bricktown could use a lot more sustainable retail). But the second and third floors of these warehouses aren't necessarily the place to put such retail.

These floors would be great places for small businesses to lease as office space. If you were a self employed architect or an accountant or maybe a small law firm or a real estate agent (agency) etc. There are all kinds of possibilities for small businesses and self employed businesses to lease office space. There's no good reason for all that space to sit untapped. It would bring even more vitality and work day foot traffic to the area. I can't imagine that the build-out cost would be that great or cost prohibitive for nice looking office space.

Maybe since I'm not in the development game I just don't get what it is the prevents this from being done. I hoped for years that those buildings would become multi-use. Then after years of the space being empty and realizing that wasn't coming, I tried to understand for years as to why it wouldn't or couldn't happen.

No, MAPS got the ball rolling.

[Urbanized]

I don't know, I would say MAPS KEPT the ball rolling, and really turned it into a giant snowball. MAPS was the tipping point, not the starting point. It's pretty fair to say that as far as redevelopment and adaptive re-use in OKC, Bricktown pioneered the concept, well before MAPS. It was already having some success as an entertainment district by 1993 for sure. The success of Bricktown among other things emboldened city leaders to pass MAPS. You can also point to things like the success of the Arts Festival, the Oklahoma Centennial events, the U.S. Olympic Festival and even the Blazers as elements that made MAPS make sense.

It's also fair to say that Bricktown pioneered, but obviously did not perfect. A lot of the mistakes (and successes) that were made in Bricktown were instructive to other districts. It's unlikely downtown would be where it is today without the pioneering efforts in Bricktown, and I say this as someone who was spending most of those years working on Automobile Alley.

[Rover]

Before maps what did Brictown have other than Spaghetti Warhouse? The canal and Ballpark made Bricktown, not the other way around. Heck, Paseo had more promise than Btown before Maps.

[traxx]

There are many, many buildings with upper floors already fully renovated and leased as office spaces for attorneys, architects, investment firms, energy companies, engineering firms, education-oriented firms, an actual university program, consultants, government contractors and others. Many tens of thousands of square feet have been developed, in fact. The Harding and Shelton building is a great example. Several of the buildings lining the canal and a number of buildings lining Sheridan and also Main have received the same treatment.

While there are without question a number of great opportunities for upper floor development remaining, it is a commonly-held and grossly untrue public misperception that nearly all of the upper floors are empty. This is mostly due to Bricktown historically doing an incredibly poor job of communicating its own successes, outside of entertainment venue development.

Great information. Thanks for posting it.

Before maps what did Brictown have other than Spaghetti Warhouse? The canal and Ballpark made Bricktown, not the other way around. Heck, Paseo had more promise than Btown before Maps.

Yeah, there was Spaghetti Warehouse and maybe one or two other restaurants. But before that, no one was really thinking about investing in Bricktown. Getting people interested in investing in BTown was what lead to MAPS which lead to the building of the canal and the ballpark.

[Urbanized]

Before maps what did Brictown have other than Spaghetti Warhouse? The canal and Ballpark made Bricktown, not the other way around. Heck, Paseo had more promise than Btown before Maps.

Spaghetti Warehouse, Bricktown Brewery, Chelino's, O'Brien's (incredibly popular at the time), Bricktown Burgers, Abuelo's (under construction when MAPS approved), Piggy's Barbecue (now Crabtown), Monkey Moose Saloon (now Hooters), Baja Cafe (Later Bricktown Charley's, now Biting Sow), Uncommon Grounds coffee shop, Bricktown Mercantile (a very large retail operation where City Walk is now), clubs like Pyramid and Kinetix were ALL in place (and popular) prior to the MAPS vote.

The Confectionary and Glass buildings had been beautifully renovated into offices in the late eighties, and sported a beautiful flower shop on the SW corner. I don't remember the name of the steakhouse that was ultimately replaced by Varsity (now Club 115), but it predates MAPS also, because it was already replaced by the Varsity by 1995, when I ate lunch there and watched the OJ verdict rendered live. YEARS before the ballpark or canal arrived.

Other venues such as Tapwerks, Akropolis Greek restaurant, Birdie's, Windy City (1994) and Crabtown were in place YEARS before the first MAPS project turned the first shovel of dirt, when the project was mired in controversy, and when in fact many people still assumed MAPS would never happen.

Joker's and ANOTHER comedy club shared the district pre-canal and pre-ballpark, and I THINK at least one of them was there pre-MAPS vote.

4th of July and other festivals were routinely drawing tens of thousands to the district going back to '90 and '91.

For those who were paying attention, the most exciting, optimistic, ORGANIC "sky's the limit" years in Bricktown were actually pre-MAPS, before the lofty EXPECTATIONS associated with hundreds of millions in public investment and some of the resulting disappointments due to the inability of some to properly capitalize on the opportunities provided by the program. Based on your timeline, the post-MAPS development of Bricktown should qualify as nothing short of incredible. An unqualified success. Instead, the commonly-held knock on the district is that it fumbled the MAPS-provided ball. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Your revisionist history on this subject is pretty ridiculous.