Picture of Jesus on the Wall

[Keith]

I sincerely hope that the school board does not let some civil liberties group walk all over them and make them take down the picture of Jesus. It has been up there for three decades, so we all know it has never been a problem before. I hope this community-based group raises the $150,000, so that they can fight these ridiculous lawsuits brought on by organizations who just want to cause problems.



Harrison board to vote
Aug. 15 on Jesus picture


By The Associated Press

CLARKSBURG -- The fate of a Jesus portrait hanging in a Harrison County high school will be decided on Aug. 15.

The Harrison County Board of Education voted 3-2 on Thursday to delay making a decision until then, Superintendent Carl Friebel said.

Two civil liberties groups sued the board in June in an attempt to remove the "Head of Christ'' picture from a hallway at Bridgeport High School. The lawsuit argues that the portrait endorses Christianity as the school's official religion.

Board members said they won't spend any public money on the case. The motion approved Thursday gives any outside community-based group that supports the portrait until Aug. 15 to raise $150,000 for a defense fund, Friebel said.

If the money isn't raised, Friebel said the board will reassess its position at that meeting.

"The board was very clear about that. They're not going to expend public money,'' the superintendent said.

A previous board vote to remove the picture failed on a tie vote.

The portrait has been hanging in the school for three decades.

[bandnerd]

Look, Keith, we all know that you are a Christian, and that's fine. But when are you going to realize that there are people out there who aren't? And that schools are subject to separation of church and state?

Just because it's been there for 30 years doesn't mean it *should* be.

[Midtowner]

haha.. This idiot school board is going to spend money defending their unconstitutional picture instead of buying textbooks and paying teachers salaries.

Way to go!

[OklaCity_75]

Soon lawmakers in our society will make it a federal felony offense to practice, speak of, or display any form of christianity in a public or private place.

Then you guys can call the cops and have Keith locked up for believing in christian principles.

[bandnerd]

Jay--

I have NO problem with people practicing a religion. However, why does Christianity have to be plastered all over everything? Are the Jews putting up Stars of David in public schools? Are Wiccans practicing their beliefs on sidewalks and handing out brochures? No.

[Keith]

Jay--

I have NO problem with people practicing a religion. However, why does Christianity have to be plastered all over everything? Are the Jews putting up Stars of David in public schools? Are Wiccans practicing their beliefs on sidewalks and handing out brochures? No.

Bandnerd, I apologize if I offended you in any way, however, it seems like everytime I post anything on this forum pertaining to Christianity, I get blasted by the same people because of my beliefs. I should be able to share (not cram) my beliefs on this forum without always getting making fun of. So far, it has never happened. Somebody always has to take a shot at my beliefs or opinions.

I posted a simple story of which I support, and I get blasted and made fun of, or get a dose of sarcasm for giving my opinion.
That's fine if it makes the people feel better about themselves, but I believe it is rather disrespectful and rude. As a moderator, I have tried very hard to stay out of these controversial subjects, because I am not suppose to get involved in them. So, I am done with this one.

Now, I will let you all discuss what you want to on this subject, and I'll move on to another thread.

[bandnerd]

I think we should replace Jesus with this picture:


In no way is this to be taken seriously. May the Flying Spaghettie Monster reign supreme over all pastafarians. RAmen.

[Midtowner]

Soon lawmakers in our society will make it a federal felony offense to practice, speak of, or display any form of christianity in a public or private place.

Then you guys can call the cops and have Keith locked up for believing in christian principles.

No, you see, that would also be unconstitional.

We're talking about the government endorsing a religion, not public or private practice of a particular religion. It's unfortunate that many cannot make such a simple distinction.

(and it is a VERY simple distinction)

[bandnerd]

And Keith, it's fine that you want to share your opinions. I'm not "blasting" you. However, I often get called out for my beliefs, as well. Can I not have mine?

Sometimes I think you fail to take into account things other than religion that can factor into situations like these, like the law and consititutional principles.

[Easy180]

count me in as saying it needs to come down...a public school is no place for Any religious pictures

[Luke]

I would hope that people see the historical significance of Christianity in the founding of America. It's not some recent phenomena that Christians are out there plastering religious references all over public and government buildings across the nation. No sir. In many cases, Christian references have been there for scores of years. It would seem the founders' ideas of separation of church and state didn't include public government buildings.

The Lincoln Memorial, which includes Lincoln's inaugural address, includes six references to God. The Washington Monument has a Bible as its cornerstone. The Supreme Court has the Ten Commandments inscribed no less than four times on premesis including an etching in the oak doors to enter the courthouse. America's heritage is replete with religious references (particularly Christian ones).

If all that isn't ironic enough, surely someone can find the irony of the "anti-religious" religious folks that force their views on those who disagree with them; something which they seemingly find very distasteful.

[OklaCity_75]

All arguments aside I do know one thing,

When I have kids they will go to private christian schools. I am not going to send my kids into the wasteland that our public schools have become.

[PUGalicious]

All arguments aside I do know one thing,

When I have kids they will go to private christian schools. I am not going to send my kids into the wasteland that our public schools have become.

Which is why Christians have less and less meaningful, positive impact into the lives of their neighbors. Imagine if Jesus only spent his time around the religious people, He would have never had the impact on the world.

That is the very reason my wife and I send our daughters to public school rather than a private, Christian school. First, it's my job to educate them on the Christian faith, not a school's. Second, how can they be an effective witness to kids their own age if they are separated from them?

[Midtowner]

I would hope that people see the historical significance of Christianity in the founding of America. It's not some recent phenomena that Christians are out there plastering religious references all over public and government buildings across the nation. No sir. In many cases, Christian references have been there for scores of years. It would seem the founders' ideas of separation of church and state didn't include public government buildings.

The Lincoln Memorial, which includes Lincoln's inaugural address, includes six references to God. The Washington Monument has a Bible as its cornerstone. The Supreme Court has the Ten Commandments inscribed no less than four times on premesis including an etching in the oak doors to enter the courthouse. America's heritage is replete with religious references (particularly Christian ones).

If all that isn't ironic enough, surely someone can find the irony of the "anti-religious" religious folks that force their views on those who disagree with them; something which they seemingly find very distasteful.

The Ten Commandments appear in the Bible, the Koran, and the Torah. Before you get your panties in a wad, realize that the 10 Commandments aren't only an endorsement of Christianity. They're probably more an endorsement of Judaism than anything else.

The primary founding fathers were deists.

The understandating of the government's ability to endrorse religion has likely changed since 1789. It's a very different world, and we have different societal norms.

[bandnerd]

OklaCity_75--Public schools are not a "wasteland." Sure, some have their issues but just because we don't pray there or have pictures of Jesus everywhere does not mean we are useless or detrimental to kids.

I went to a public school my entire life, pre-school through college, and I received a good education, I have a good job, I was given money to help with my education through public scholarships and I learned many lessons that were not related to my education. Pidgeonholing your children into one tiny sector of life will not help them.

Okay, end rant...sorry to hijack.

And Luke--did the Puritans not come here to escape religious persecution? Weren't they looking to worship in their own way, a way that was different? I thought this whole place was supposed to be about religious freedoms and differences, but it seems that people don't believe in that anymore.

[Martin]

the ten commandments appear in the bible, the koran, and the torah. before you get your panties in a wad, realize that the 10 commandments aren't only an endorsement of christianity. they're probably more an endorsement of judaism than anything else.

what's your point? a religious reference is less of an endorsement if it's not a christian reference? it's less of an endorsement if it has significance to multiple religions? if this makes it ok then given your logic, since jesus is recognized as a prophet in islam, a decent man with good principles by judaism, and messiah by christians then there should be no problem with displaying his likeness in a public space. i'm sure you don't believe that... perhaps you should clarify.

the primary founding fathers were deists.

again, what's the point? washington and jefferson are widely considered as christian deists. franklin, while largely an opponent of organized religion, proposed that each session of the constitutional convention begin with a prayer. franklin and jefferson proposed that our national seal be the scene of the parting of the red sea with the motto, 'rebellion to tyrants is obedience to god.' so they were deists. big deal.

the understandating [sic] of the government's ability to endrorse [sic] religion has likely changed since 1789. it's a very different world, and we have different societal norms.

are you arguing on the basis of constitutionality or are you arguing on the basis of changing societal norms?

did the puritans not come here to escape religious persecution? weren't they looking to worship in their own way, a way that was different? i thought this whole place was supposed to be about religious freedoms and differences, but it seems that people don't believe in that anymore.

the puritans as an example of religious tolerance? crack open a history book and see just how tolerant they were. try looking up oliver cromwell. try looking up colonial government in new england. seems to me that we're a more tolerant society than we have ever been.

-M

[bandnerd]

mmm...I know the Puritans aren't a good example of religious tolerance...but overall, they came here to get away from their own persecution, did they not?

Also: It seems this country is all about religious tolerance as long as you have some sort of religion. If you don't, then uh oh! The hethens are threatening to take down our picture of Jesus in a public school, how dare they!

Frankly, public schools are funded by public money, taxpayers money. Some of those taxpayers do not want to see their money spent in schools where a religion is so obviously chosen for the masses. If you want your kids to receive a religious education, then put them in a private religious school. They can have all the religious paintings, hangings, wallpaper, etc. there.

And just because a public school doesn't teach Christian principles, do not sit here and tell everyone how horrible they are. Many public schools are great. Mine is one of them. I have taught in a school where many of the kids said they were religious, and went to church...but they were also members of gangs, grafittied the school, gave out threats to teachers and students (myself included) and were often arrested for possesion of drugs and weapons. There are extremes to every situation.

Ask a kid who's gone to a religious school...they'll tell you that the same issues (drugs, sex, rock 'n roll) are there just like they are in public schools.

[Martin]

if you knew that puritans weren't such a good example then why did you use them? it is true that economic opportunity and religious persecution were the chief factors that influenced puritan emigration from england. using puritans as an example of the united states' heritage of religious tolerance is disingenuous. -M

[Easy180]

scribe has it right...if you are practicing Christians it is your job to teach them not the schools...and I knew of many private school students who were let's just say not acting very christian back then..so if you want to shell out several grand for a supposed better education so be it...I somehow came up w/ a masters degree coming through the "wasteland" of south OKC public schools

[bandnerd]

mmm...I apologize. I will refrain from posting to any threads before 8am.

Am I not allowed to make a mistake? Geez.

[Patrick]

I don't see a problem leaving the picture for historical reasons. Maybe they can hang pictures of Mohammad and Buddha up as well.

[Martin]

so i looked into this a little more since i wanted to see the painting that was deemed oppresive. well, i found it here. i've gotta say i feel a little bamboozled on this one.

when i had originally read that this particular painting had been hanging in the school for thirty years, i had envisioned something significant to the school's history... something unique and perhaps created or donated by the students of the school. if that were the case, then it would've been an endorsement by the students and not by the school itself. fact is, that this is a relatively small print of a popular 40's era portrait of (a surprisingly caucasian) christ. nothing unique at all... it might as well be printed on a collector's plate from the franklin mint. after seeing the portrait for myself, i find it hard to believe that it has any significance to the school's history and cultural heritage.

now isn't that a more rational and mature way of disagreeing with the original poster? why do you peeps have to be condescending? why do you have to call people stupid? geez, indeed.

-M

[Patrick]

Why do people have to make a big deal of Jesus hanging on a wall? Geesh!

[bandnerd]

Who called anyone stupid?

[Luke]

The Ten Commandments appear in the Bible, the Koran, and the Torah. Before you get your panties in a wad, realize that the 10 Commandments aren't only an endorsement of Christianity. They're probably more an endorsement of Judaism than anything else.

Even more of a reason to keep them up. There are many more Muslims, Jews and Christians in the United States than those who oppose the Ten Commandments.

The primary founding fathers were deists.

This is a debateable point. But, honestly, I really don't want to get into it...

The understandating of the government's ability to endrorse religion has likely changed since 1789.

So says you. The philosophy of constitutional interpretation can be different depending on who you ask.

It's a very different world, and we have different societal norms.

I hope these new sociatal norms don't stray from the Ten Commandments too far.

This whole separation of church and state thing isn't even a founding document. It was written in a letter. In my opinion, this letter is being used as propaganda for the secular/atheistic/anti-Christian groups out there.