Public Transit Symposium

[andrew3077]

Hey, did any of you all go to the Public Transit Symposium hosted earlier this evening? I couldn't make it out but had a few friends who did and enjoyed the talk and were impressed by the turnout.

I was wondering if there was a video of the talks available somewhere.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1233...all_view=posts

[OKCisOK4me]

Sid. ...you didn't jog to the symposium did you? Went upstairs while Shadid was speaking and got a nice pic of the crowd which I posted on Facebook. Met Bob, UP and Betts. Definitely was a nice crowd.

[cagoklahoma]

Unfortunately, the #16 route ends service about the time that thing was supposed to get started. So I did it the old fashioned way -- bummed a ride from a friend.

That is rather funny that there was no public transportation to get people to the Public Transit Symposium.

[betts]

An attendee last night told me about two people who arrived at the airport here to attend a transit meeting and stopped at information to enquire about public transit to downtown. Imagine their surprise when they found there was none.

The most shocking thing I learned during Jarrett Walker's visit is that many of our bus routes run hourly, and that the bus drivers stop at the transit center for up to 15 minutes, have coffee and a little chat before leaving again. Who's going to ride unless they have no choice in that setting?

Personally, since I don't believe police deter crime unless their numbers are overwhelming, and I regularly see a few of Oklahoma City's finest at the downtown Starbucks, I'd like to see that extra money the police are lobbying for spent on transit instead. Our system is an embarrassment.

[Just the facts]

That is rather funny that there was no public transportation to get people to the Public Transit Symposium.

I guess it is like hosting the Urban Sprawl meeting in a suburban hotel. I guess you have to go where the 'sinners' are and if there was pubic transit to the symposium they wouldn't need a symposium.

[OKCisOK4me]

Yeah...I said to a few people, its ironic that we all drove here.

[Just the facts]

Yeah...I said to a few people, its ironic that we all drove here.

Not sure it is ironic but it clearly demonstrates the problem.

[OKCisOK4me]

Not sure it is ironic but it clearly demonstrates the problem.

Well, they laughed.......SO.......apparently, they understood what I was talking about.

[shawnw]

I was wondering if there was a video of the talks available somewhere.

It was a GREAT presentation. Very enlightening. Dr Shadid said something about the presentation being streamed online. Not sure if that also meant it was recorded.

[OKCisOK4me]

Yeah, I wished I could have stayed for the whole thing. I left about 8:35pm. How much longer did Mr. Walker speak and was there a question answer session after that? I hope that the recording--either video or just audio--is available for review.

[shawnw]

I don't think you missed anything. Think that's about when it ended. No Q&A either, but that would be nice in the future.

[Dubya61]

Jarett Walker blogs about his visit here: Human Transit: oklahoma city: 450+ turn out to talk about transit
While the whole blog entry is worth reading, here's the lead in.

In the two years that I've been on the public lecture circuit, I've talked with audiences in major cities all over North America. *Usually, these have been public events, well-promoted through both social and conventional media. *I've done such events in big transit-friendly cities like Washington DC, San Francisco, Seattle, and Vancouver, places where you'd expect transit to be a popular topic.
But the biggest crowd I've ever seen was yesterday, in Oklahoma City. *At least 450 people (based on sign in sheets) turned out to*hear both my keynote speech and some constructive fire and brimstone from City Councilor (Dr.)*Ed Shadid.*
Oklahoma City has some of the worst figures in America for public health outcomes such as obesity. Possibly related, it also appears to have the lowest level of transit service.

[betts]

I would expect that the worse transit is in a city, the higher the turnout. People who are happy with their transit system would have no reason to attend a meeting on transit.

[ljbab728]

I'm not quite sure how he relates the low numbers of transit riders to obesity. How does riding in public transit benefit health over riding in an automobile other than you might have to walk from your home to catch transit? I think that is stretching the point. If he was talking about walking or biking to work I would buy that.

[ljbab728]

It's been shown in studies that transit riders are slightly healthier and yeah, you nailed it. It is because you tend to walk several more blocks a day. That adds up.

Part of it too is just the way transit can change your behavior. Especially if you go completely carless. But even if not, you get used to seeing distances differently. You may not drive 8 blocks to get where you are going because you know it will only take you about 10 minutes so you'll walk instead. Those are the types of small, but useful changes in a person's activity that contribute to apparently healthier outcomes for the transit rider.

I agree that it could have an affect but doubt it has a serious influence, as he implies, on the obesity in OKC. If someone drives downtown to work or takes transit there is likely no significant difference in how far they might need to walk after they arrive. In fact, a driver might have to walk further.

[blangtang]

I didn't attend this simpo, but its turning into a good discussion about what the hell OKC is doing regarding transit.

here's what I've gathered:

-most of the people who attended drove there

-most of the people who use public transit weren't present

-transit "hobbyists" and transit "enthusiasts" dominate the streetcar route selection process

-there may be some legal challenges over civil rights and how the public loot is spent- i admit I'm clueless on this front-it sounds like the bus system is being neglected in favor of developing a fancy shmancy trolly for the upwardly mobile to parade about downtown

At least there is discussion,a big improvement from the past situation. I'd like to hear from others.

[ljbab728]

-there may be some legal challenges over civil rights and how the public loot is spent- i admit I'm clueless on this front-it sounds like the bus system is being neglected in favor of developing a fancy shmancy trolly for the upwardly mobile to parade about downtown

At least there is discussion,a big improvement from the past situation. I'd like to hear from others.

Yes, it sounds like your correct in part at least. LOL

[blangtang]

Hey I'm glad we agree- next time try to get "your" and "you're" correct before you go all ad hominem!

[OKCisOK4me]

I didn't attend this simpo, but its turning into a good discussion about what the hell OKC is doing regarding transit.

here's what I've gathered:

-most of the people who attended drove there

-most of the people who use public transit weren't present

-transit "hobbyists" and transit "enthusiasts" dominate the streetcar route selection process

-there may be some legal challenges over civil rights and how the public loot is spent- i admit I'm clueless on this front-it sounds like the bus system is being neglected in favor of developing a fancy shmancy trolly for the upwardly mobile to parade about downtown

At least there is discussion,a big improvement from the past situation. I'd like to hear from others.

This is what I gather based upon your post and the possibility of Mr. Walker not having held a "simpo" have we had actual transportation:

-the event would not have existed

-most of the people would have used bus/streetcar transportation to arrive

-most of the people who arrived via the aforementioned modes of transportation were present

-because a central district of mass transportation exists, it's easier to grow outward. A flower doesn't bloom from the edges

-Mr. Walker stated that all modes of public transportation work off of each other. Just because we're vying for streetcar doesn't mean we want to forget about bus service.

That's what I got out of it. Next...

[ljbab728]

Hey I'm glad we agree- next time try to get "your" and "you're" correct before you go all ad hominem!

Well sometimes your and you're seem close to the same after midnight. And it's been a long time since I've been ad hominem. LOL

[RodH]

One of the arguments made for streetcars is the more permanent nature of their routes versus bus routes. Given that, it seems more sensible to me to adjust the bus routes to the streetcar route as opposed to fitting the street car route to the current bus routes. The current bus routes were not configured with a consideration of a non-existent streetcar. I believe that we can gain a more effective transit system if bus routes are reconfigured after the streetcar route is determined.

[betts]

But it is one thing to say we don't want to ignore the bus system. It is another thing to design a system that has no intention of improving or complimenting the bus system. The route is really a perfect example of how early this process veered from "how can we improve transit in OKC?". There is no obvious consideration to the current routes and no clear objective to enhance them or compliment them. It's a new route that competes with bus routes. How does that help our bus service?

Do we really need to help our existing bus system when many people think the current system is almost fatally flawed? What we need to do is revamp our entire design. If we make the streetcar respond to the bus system, since it can't be moved once built, then we're saying we think the current system is fine. Rather, once the streetcar is built, change bus routes to respond to the streetcar.

What we really need, IMO, is both. We need a popular, functional streetcar line AND a drastically improved bus system. We also need to be looking longer term at commuter rail, and perhaps what we all need to be promoting is an RTA (Regional Transit Authority), and a dedicated funding source. We've done wonders with the zoo and their dedicated sales tax monies. I'm not going to suggest that their dedicated funding be given to transit, as I think that many people in this town would pick the zoo over transit. But, similarly, a dedicated funding source would allow us to improve the bus system and begin working on commuter rail before we absolutely need it, rather than waiting until it's absolutely necessary.

[Just the facts]

Jacksonville has the Skyway which has suffered from poor ridership for 20 years. More than anything else it has prevented the development of more fixed guideway transit in Jax because all the opponents needed to do was point at the Skyway. But last year that changed. They dropped the 25 cent fare and removed duplicate bus service and now the Skyway is the fastest growing fixed guideway transit system in the US based on ridership numbers. It now has 5,100 riders a day instead of the 1,700 per day before the changes. That is an annual increase of 884,000 riders. There is a movement now to expand it to the downtown adjacent neighborhoods when just 2 years ago nearly everyone wanted it closed.

JTA Skyway: Nation's Fastest Growing Rail System! | Metro Jacksonville

The bottom line is the bus and streetcar have to work together as part of the same transit system and not in competition with each other. When regional rail is opened from Norman/Edmomd to downtown OKC how stupid would be to continue the express buses that cover the same routes.

[DoctorTaco]

The bird has already flown on this one, but has anyone discussed Bus Rapid Transit in OKC. The principal is that you have dedicated lanes, dedicated stoplights, a routine schedule (i.e. bus runs every 15 minutes), elevated ADA compliant loading/unloading zones at each stop etc. Basically it is everything that a streetcar is, without the railroad tracks. Because of this it is much much cheaper, and can thus have a longer route map than a traditional streetcar. Also it has the effect of creating all the lanes needed to eventually upgrade to a true streetcar at some future point.

Bus rapid transit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pleae forgive me if this has already been discussed to death. I am new-ish to town, and new-ish to these forums.

[Hutch]

One of the arguments made for streetcars is the more permanent nature of their routes versus bus routes. Given that, it seems more sensible to me to adjust the bus routes to the streetcar route as opposed to fitting the street car route to the current bus routes. The current bus routes were not configured with a consideration of a non-existent streetcar. I believe that we can gain a more effective transit system if bus routes are reconfigured after the streetcar route is determined.

Exactly. Why in the world would anyone layout a permanent, fixed guideway rail system based on avoiding duplication of a poorly designed bus system. That's intellectual madness. Even Councilmember Ed Shadid's hired bus transit consultant understands that basic transit planning concept.