MAPS III??? Light Rail???

[ETL]

Oh, I forgot to mention that once that river area starts to develop, we do need to keep the old warehouses and the Bricktown them, but it needs some modern flair like a mix with a beach type area. (Just a thought! It is a river.)

[goddessnna]

Just about everybody's metro system shuts down. The only ones I know of in the US that are 24 hours are in New York and Chicago.

Actually NYC isn't 24 hours. They shutdown for about 2 hours I think between 4 am and 6 am. Oh wait but that might be outbound to NJ only... as I know since I've gone out clubbing and just missed the last train to NJ and got stuck waiting in Grand Central for 2 hours... in the middle of the night... good times good times. Hehe

But I do think they have a little down time. Not much, but still. :-p

[ETL]

IMO, a monorail downtown should be part of the next MAPS project.

This is how I would have the rout go.

Follow this link >>> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monorailou6.jpg

For info on what they cost, I went here >>> http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

Good Idea or BAD Idea? Let me know what you think? :spin:

[Kerry]

Light rail will never ever work in OKC. In fact, it is a mistake in almost every city it has been tried in. The cost per mile is so high that it will never make money and is to slow to complete with the average car - even during rush hour. OKC already has very good rail network that could take advantage of commuter rail. Colorado Rail Car (www.coloradorailcar.com) has built a commuter diesel unit that can run on standard frieght lines. Trains could run from El Reno to Shawnee, Norman/Purcel to Edmond/Guthrie into a transit station under downtown OKC. A line can even run to the airport. All the track is there. All that is need is a downtown hub (don't feed me the line about the old Union Station) and the rolling stock. The average cost of 400 passenger Colorado Rail Car train is about $6,000,000. That is less than the cost of one mile of light rail track!

Commuter rail and a downtown trolley connecting downtown OKC to the medical centers and the State Capitol would be perfect. Commuter rai could also serve the adventure district.

[mranderson]

"Light rail will never ever work in OKC."

It seems like we heard this same song and dance with major league sports, and we all know who won that one... Think about it.

[Kerry]

I'm not saying light rail won't work in OKC because there is something wrong with OKC. Light rail won't work because light rail is flawed. We should not repeat the same mistakes other city have made. Light rail simply cost way too much per mile. Why not use the infrastructure that is already in place?

[Kerry]

Just took a look at the monorail pricing. Let just say OKC can forget monorail. With most systems costing well over $10 million per mile just for construction I think they are out of the price range of most cities. An entire commuter rail system could be built for the cost of just 10 miles of monorail. Light rail cost even more.

[OklaCity_75]

OKC is just not ready for commuter rail.

I do not trust COTPA to run a multimillion-dollar operation.

Then again, if we do build it we could always raise gas taxes $5.00 a gallon to pay for its installation. Then raise the taxes to $10.00 a gallon to keep it operating and expanding.

This concept would force people to stop driving and start riding.

[Kerry]

With a MAPS style funding system to cover construction cost - maintenace and operating expenses would be paid by the riders. In fact - many commuter rail systems are private operations. Why would there be any need to tax people who drive their cars even more? Raising taxes to force people to live a lifestyle they don't want is the liberal version of life.

There are many reason why people would choose to ride a fast and affordable rail system. Parking in downotwn OKC cost $100 to $200 per month. A monthly pass on rail would cost around $50. Gas to and from Norman to OKC during rush hour/game night is about $10 round trip. On rail - it is already paid for with a monthly pass. Drink all you want in Bricktown - take the train home - and have a cab drive you the final 2 miles.

[jbrown84]

We could have a pay as you go pass similar to a PikePass, so people that just use it irregularly would only pay when they used it.

[ETL]

Well, I see what you are saying about a light rail system used by and for the locals, but the monorail idea is for the tourists. From what I have read, OKC is trying to become a convention city (like Las Vegas), so I think if this is our goal, then a monorail downtown is where to start. Not many people have a monorail! Following the path that I drew and if we could get for $10 million/mi., then it would only cost $33.6 million for construction. This concept, IMO, is the same as the canal that has worked so well. The monorail would tell of our history and be a huge attraction, but locals don’t ride it to work. I think this would work. Good or Bad?

[okcpulse]

We need to change our metality of commuter rail/ light rail. It should not be about whether or not it would work in Oklahoma City. People, especially politicians, treat rail as though it is a luxury. And while the cost associated with rail is exuberant, reducing carbon dioxide output should be the mission of every major American city, and that includes educating and encouraging citizens to use public transit, especially commuter rail and/or other environmentally friendly transportation options.

MAPS III needs to focus on turning Oklahoma City into a green city. By that I mean, improve public transportation in a way that would make Oklahoma City an example. That includes HOV lanes, top notch city-funded highway improvements, and commuter rail. Let's build on this idea, everyone.

Like I said, it's not a question of whether or not it would work, it's a matter of MAKING it work. The United States government is the only U.N. country that shelved the Kyoto Treaty, citing a hinderance to economic growth. What a shame of our leadership.

[Kerry]

Shelbyville has a monorail. I don't think convention planners look for cities that have a monorail and then decide to have their convention in that city. They might look at transportation infrastructure as one of criteria but that would be it.

Here in Jacksonville we have the Skyway which is an elevated monorail system. Each train holds about 20 people but the system is rarely used by anyone except office workers.

Here is a link with good photos of the JAX system:
http://faculty.washington.edu/~jbs/itrans/jack.htm

For the downtown core I would prefer street level electrick trollies like Tampa:
http://www.tecolinestreetcar.org/

[ETL]

Well it was just a thought, but what would be our next MAJOR attraction?

Oh, is FOKC the same as MAPS?

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT:Hargis envisions MAPS III `I think it's time to start planning the next stage' - 12/26/2002


The Journal Record

Burns Hargis, vice chairman of Bank of Oklahoma and newly inducted chairman of the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce 's board of directors, has an ambitious vision for the future of Oklahoma City.

That vision includes new downtown housing and schools, the possible introduction of rail transit to the area, and growth in the area's existing industry "clusters."

Hargis said his main goal as chairman of the Chamber "is to envision MAPS III," developing the next big economic development initiative for Oklahoma City.

"I think it's time to start planning the next stage," he said. "I don't think we can sit on our laurels."

Hargis believes the original Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS) program -- which resulted in the revitalization of downtown Oklahoma City through construction of a new ballpark and an improved downtown arena, as well as other civic renovations -- is a "platform for success, and we want to be able to really take full advantage of it when the economy does turn."

A major component of that effort will be a focus on attracting tourism to the area.

"We need to be a destination city for tourism, for conventions," Hargis said. "We've got a great start now with great convention facilities. We're beginning to get the hotel rooms that we need to accommodate those conventions."

Hargis said successful economic development brings money from outside the region into Oklahoma City.

"If the dollars are just in the region, just circulating within the region, there's no growth there. That's not economic development. You have to have dollars come from outside in. And tourism dollars or convention dollars are just ideal. People bring their dollars in, they spend them here, but they don't drive on our roads, they don't foul our air or our water. It's just a very clean and effective method of economic development."

To draw more tourist money into Oklahoma City, officials will have to connect places of interest within the city -- like the Oklahoma City National Memorial, the fairgrounds, the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, downtown -- with a transportation system, "maybe a monorail."

He also believes the canal needs to be extended "into the downtown area through the hotel area to provide both a venue for entertainment but also (add) the physical attraction."

"We probably need to cut a channel of the river into downtown," Hargis said. "I know we have the canal running there, but we probably need to go ahead and cut a channel in so you can take boats in and you can bring the boats right into the hotel area."

He also wants to see downtown become an actual community, and not just a destination location.

"We need to get a lot of housing downtown. We need to get schools downtown," Hargis said. "The downtown area needs to `stay awake' at night, so to speak. And that means people have to live down here, so that will be a big focus."

At the same time, Hargis said chamber officials also plan to build on "industry clusters" already in place in the metro area, such as the aircraft maintenance cluster at Tinker Air Force Base and the medical research center located between downtown Oklahoma City and the State Capitol.

"Research dollars, it's almost better than those tourists or conventioneers. You don't have any of the silly hats for one thing, but research dollars by and large emanate from the federal government in Washington."

He said better connections between downtown and the research area is needed to make Oklahoma City more attractive to companies looking to relocate.

"They'll be close to all this great housing we're going to have downtown and they'll be able to go have a great meal or see a sports event over in Bricktown and it'll just be a terrific opportunity."

It's an ambitious agenda, and one that could easily be derailed by any number of factors from a bad economy to simple ingrained opposition to change. But Hargis believes Oklahoma City residents have proven they can be visionary by both launching and successfully completing the original MAPS program.

"The major obstacle for anything like this is just the attitude of the people, and I think our attitude is great," Hargis said, "but I think we need to keep the momentum going. You know, there's so much negative press about the economy and the terrorism overhang and all the rest, it's a tough time to be an optimist. But that's our job, and I think by and large our city is still very optimistic."

Any updates on this?

I agree with okcplus on that idea. The thing about the Kyoto Treaty is that the countries on that treat are totaly different as far as industrialization.

[Patrick]

"Light rail will never ever work in OKC."

It seems like we heard this same song and dance with major league sports, and we all know who won that one... Think about it.

The above quote was from a person that used to favor commuter rail in OKC, and even developed a website for a group of citizens that were interested in lobbying for commuter rail in OKC. Wow, what a change in opinion. Sounds like old Okie blood. Okie blood has changed over the past 10-15 years, and the pessimism no longer is as rampant here, thank God.

Sounds a lot like the old pessmism, "OKC will never be able to support a major league team."

[ETL]

The above quote was from a person that used to favor commuter rail in OKC, and even developed a website for a group of citizens that was interested in lobbying for commuter rail in OKC. Wow, what a change in opinion. Sounds like old Okie blood. Okie blood has changed over the past 10-15 years, and the pessimism no longer is as rampant here, thank God.

Is the website still active, and what changed his mind?

[Patrick]

Is the website still active, and what changed his mind?

The website was developed to represent a group of concerned citizens who called themselves OCART, Oklahoma Area Rapid Transit. The group, made up of about 20 members, some of which post here (Keith, myself, floater, and a few others) met for about a year before disbanding. Part of the reason for disbanding was because our thoughts were landing on deaf ears: Kirk Humphreys!

Not sure what changed his mind. You'd have to ask Kerry.

[ETL]

Well i wish there was another orgaization that I could get involved in!

[Patrick]

Well i wish there was another orgaization that I could get involved in!

Oklahoma Railway Museum has a good PAC group that you might check into. They're probably the strongest advocate of commuter rail in OKC.

http://www.oklahomarailwaymuseum.org/

[ETL]

Thanks

[Kerry]

I think you were refering to me and not Mr Anderson with your quote. I am still in favor of rail in OKC. I just get a little frustrated with people using the incorrect terminology. Light rail is a very specific type of rail but many people use it to mean "some kind of rail" system. I have done some aditional readin tonight and light rail is now approaching $50 million per mile. I think there are better ways to spend money.

As I see it, OKC has 4 areas that could use some kind of rail infrastrucutre.

1. Suburbs to downtown/airport
2. Downtown loop to Capitol Bricktown, OU medical, St. Anthony's
3. Adventure district
4. Meridian Hotels to downtown

Here are the modes of transporatation for each:
1. Coloradro Rail Car commuter rail
2. Electric street level trolley
3. Electric street level trolley (could be extension of above trolley or connect to another commuter rail station near Cowboy Hall of Fame)
4. electric trolley running along Meridian with connection to commuter rail on tracks just North of I-40. Could extend all the way to the airport.

[ETL]

I love the idea, but they are not unique to a city like a monorail is. I think we should have a monorail, but it will only go around downtown. The rest could be more practical like commuter rail.

[jbrown84]

A monorail is not that unique, as has already been stated.

[ETL]

A monorail is not that unique, as has already been stated.

What do you mean, “...as has already been started”?

[jbrown84]

Someone already mentioned that there is one in Jacksonville and one in Seattle and I believe someone mentioned there's on in Las Vegas.

monorail = not unique