Odot

[Larry OKC]

Larry - let's keep it simple.

When you pull out of your driveway onto the street are you paying a fee to drive on the city street? The answer to that is no. Do you pay a tax for a gallon of gas? Yes. Is a tax on gas a fee for driving on a street? No, or else you also have to say I pay a fee for mowing my grass using a gas powered lawn mower. Depending on gasoline milage the amount paid per mile varies for everyone. Heck, some cars don't even use gasoline (natural gas, electric, hydrogen, diesel, biomass, used cooking oil, lollipop wishes, etc). We probably should switch to a funding strucutre that charges the people using it. While we are at it we should also consider charging what it actually costs to build, maintain, and eventually replace. I'll bet that would be bring far-flung road construction to a halt.

Thats all well and good and IF they were to switch from the gasoline tax to mileage tax that might be ok too, but as we all know, what will probably happen is we will end up with both taxes.

[ou48A]

This video shows what the new I-635 (LBJ) and I-35 (Stemmons Freeway) will look like in 3 years in Dallas.


After you have watch this remember that it’s going to take Oklahoma about 35 years to rebuild I-35 from I- 40 to just south of Norman and the OKC I-35 project is much less complicated.

Oklahoma political leaders need to reform the system so that Oklahoma can build its highway projects much faster.

Only time you?ll be able to drive LBJ Express in five minutes: New hi-def video shows ?full expanse? of IH-635 redo | Transportation Blog

[Bellaboo]

Thank the good lord I don't live down there. Just reinforces the traffic experiences I've had down there in the past. I have several relatives down there that plan their day around the traffic.

[ou48A]

Thank the good lord I don't live down there. Just reinforces the traffic experiences I've had down there in the past. I have several relatives down there that plan their day around the traffic.

I didn’t move to the Dallas are for that very reason but I now find myself doing exactly that on a much smaller scale and at certain times in parts of the Norman area.

But the point of my last post was to highlight the difference in the much shorter construction times

[bluedogok]

This video shows what the new I-635 (LBJ) and I-35 (Stemmons Freeway) will look like in 3 years in Dallas.


After you have watch this remember that it’s going to take Oklahoma about 35 years to rebuild I-35 from I- 40 to just south of Norman and the OKC I-35 project is much less complicated.

Oklahoma political leaders need to reform the system so that Oklahoma can build its highway projects much faster.

Only time you?ll be able to drive LBJ Express in five minutes: New hi-def video shows ?full expanse? of IH-635 redo | Transportation Blog

That was originally proposed back when I lived in Dallas, 20 years ago, I remember the newspaper articles and model making the rounds. Texas has its transportation issues, it usually isn't in DFW or Houston, it is a problem in Austin and San Antonio.

[Plutonic Panda]

This video shows what the new I-635 (LBJ) and I-35 (Stemmons Freeway) will look like in 3 years in Dallas.


After you have watch this remember that it’s going to take Oklahoma about 35 years to rebuild I-35 from I- 40 to just south of Norman and the OKC I-35 project is much less complicated.

Oklahoma political leaders need to reform the system so that Oklahoma can build its highway projects much faster.

Only time you?ll be able to drive LBJ Express in five minutes: New hi-def video shows ?full expanse? of IH-635 redo | Transportation Blog

That is a beautiful highway man. WOW. I am in a loss for words.

[Plutonic Panda]

In late November, the folks turning LBJ Freeway into the toll-laned LBJ Express unveiled three animated renderings of the $2.7(ish)-billion redo due to hit the checkered flag by December 2015(ish).

OKC's might get that one day. (ish) Almost looks a little I-40(isn)

[ljbab728]

This video shows what the new I-635 (LBJ) and I-35 (Stemmons Freeway) will look like in 3 years in Dallas.


After you have watch this remember that it’s going to take Oklahoma about 35 years to rebuild I-35 from I- 40 to just south of Norman and the OKC I-35 project is much less complicated.

Oklahoma political leaders need to reform the system so that Oklahoma can build its highway projects much faster.

Only time you?ll be able to drive LBJ Express in five minutes: New hi-def video shows ?full expanse? of IH-635 redo | Transportation Blog

Excuse me if I'm skeptical that those freeways will look like that in 3 years. Dallas has been working on and rebuilding those roads for much longer than 35 years. There have been many reincarnations of I35 and LBJ.

[catch22]

I hope we never see a highway like that in OKC.....

[ljbab728]

I hope we never see a highway like that in OKC.....

I can't imagine a time when we would ever need something like that no matter how quickly it could be built.

[CaptDave]

That thing will be just as congested as it is today in a few years - very few. It is called induced demand and the automobile/highway building cabal (I kid - a little) has mastered this self fulfilling circle. We need to maintain what we have now for highway infrastructure and dedicate more time, effort, and capital to alternate modes of transportation.

[jn1780]

That thing will be just as congested as it is today in a few years - very few. It is called induced demand and the automobile/highway building cabal (I kid - a little) has mastered this self fulfilling circle. We need to maintain what we have now for highway infrastructure and dedicate more time, effort, and capital to alternate modes of transportation.

The middle lanes will cost drivers an arm and a leg in order to keep the speeds up. The free lanes will be bumper to bumper. Lol

[adaniel]

The middle lanes will cost drivers an arm and a leg in order to keep the speeds up. The free lanes will be bumper to bumper. Lol

Yep, that's one major problem with this road. What's going to happen to the masses that can't afford the tolls day in and day out?

It also bears repeating that this thing is being financed through some pretty complicated measures. This is a public/private road financed by about $1.4 billion in loans to be paid back with congestion pricing tolls that could be as high as 55 cents per mile in the "Lexus Lanes" (in comparison the John Kilpatrick Turnpike is about 8 cents/mile). The company operating this road is a Spanish company, Cintras, that has a shady track record. Oh, and it will be tolled for the next 50+ years.

I wouldn't mind if OTA wanted to put in some toll lanes, but I can't think of a freeway in OK that has serious enough congestion to warrant that. Most of our problems are due to outdated designs and decades of deferred maintenance now taking their toll. Only way you can fix that is more money, really no way to get around it.

[Plutonic Panda]

I can't imagine a time when we would ever need something like that no matter how quickly it could be built.

Eh, we probably won't.

[ou48A]

Excuse me if I'm skeptical that those freeways will look like that in 3 years. Dallas has been working on and rebuilding those roads for much longer than 35 years. There have been many reincarnations of I35 and LBJ.

No matter how it’s financed it shouldn’t take Oklahoma about 35 years to physically rebuild I-35….
We are doing something wrong and in a major way when it takes that long for the physical construction of something as simple as the rebuilding of a relatively short stretch of I-35.

[SoonerDave]

So THAT'S what they were building when we were down in Dallas during OU-Texas. We were staying at a hotel along Midway Blvd north of I-635, and there's a ton of this construction already going on. I saw what looked like ramps parallel to the main highway, and asked a couple of people what they were, and no one really knew. They're the spur lanes shown in that video.

Man, that's a monstrously amibtious project. In my estimation, I just don't see OKC's population density getting to the point where a structure remotely like that is even in the cards. The broader Dallas area is so immense that to even draw an analogy between it and OKC's traffic issues is an apples-to-oranges effort. Drive in OKC for a while, then drive in Dallas for a while, and you'll get what I mean. OKC has *nothing* remotely like the volume that traverses 635 in an average day.

[Plutonic Panda]

That thing will be just as congested as it is today in a few years - very few. It is called induced demand and the automobile/highway building cabal (I kid - a little) has mastered this self fulfilling circle. We need to maintain what we have now for highway infrastructure and dedicate more time, effort, and capital to alternate modes of transportation.

Not completely sold on that idea. First off one road that I can think of out of the back of my mind is Shields. Six lane road and it doesn't completely fill up everyday. There are more examples of this. MANY MORE. I would have to think for awhile. I guess the real test will be the new I-40. As of right now, it doesn't seem to be horribly congested.

[catch22]

Not completely sold on that idea. First off one road that I can think of out of the back of my mind is Shields. Six lane road and it doesn't completely fill up everyday. There are more examples of this. MANY MORE. I would have to think for awhile. I guess the real test will be the new I-40. As of right now, it doesn't seem to be horribly congested.

Have you driven Shields southbound between 430-630pm?

[Plutonic Panda]

Have you driven Shields southbound between 430-630pm?

Yes, and it is not to horribly bad. Go drive on Preston Rd. though Dallas during rush hour and that is baaaaaaaad traffic.

[ou48A]

Yes, and it is not to horribly bad. Go drive on Preston Rd. though Dallas during rush hour and that is baaaaaaaad traffic.

I agree
I have driven down Preston Rd many times. The volume of traffic on it and on plenty of other major Dallas streets make South Shields at rush hour look like a walk in the park.

I dove on Preston this past fall during the OU-Texas week end.
Preston RD is bad around the Dallas country club but I think it gets worse the further north you go.

[ou48A]

So THAT'S what they were building when we were down in Dallas during OU-Texas. We were staying at a hotel along Midway Blvd north of I-635, and there's a ton of this construction already going on. I saw what looked like ramps parallel to the main highway, and asked a couple of people what they were, and no one really knew. They're the spur lanes shown in that video.

Man, that's a monstrously amibtious project. In my estimation, I just don't see OKC's population density getting to the point where a structure remotely like that is even in the cards. The broader Dallas area is so immense that to even draw an analogy between it and OKC's traffic issues is an apples-to-oranges effort. Drive in OKC for a while, then drive in Dallas for a while, and you'll get what I mean. OKC has *nothing* remotely like the volume that traverses 635 in an average day.

I also saw this on my OU –Texas weekend… But I knew about it in advance.
I have learned the hard way that it pays to do a detailed search of Texas road construction for this trip.

What struck me then was the scale of the project and how it dwarfed OKC I-40 project that we made such a big deal about.
I also remember thinking that we really need to increase our states ambitions and time lines when building needed infrastructure in our state

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree
I have driven down Preston Rd many times. The volume of traffic on it and on plenty of other major Dallas streets make South Shields at rush hour look like a walk in the park.

I dove on Preston this past fall during the OU-Texas week end.
Preston RD is bad around the Dallas country club but I think it gets worse the further north you go.

Oh, definitely. Richardson, TX is like Edmond traffic on steroids. It's nuts. Esp. Coit Rd. Wowzers man. lol

[ljbab728]

No matter how it’s financed it shouldn’t take Oklahoma about 35 years to physically rebuild I-35….
We are doing something wrong and in a major way when it takes that long for the physical construction of something as simple as the rebuilding of a relatively short stretch of I-35.

As I said, the area in Dallas being discussed has been under construction and rebuilding mode for an equally long time. Neither state had planned for the current needs when the freeways were first built. The needs and construction designs and techniques have changed considerably over that 35 year period.

[Plutonic Panda]

One thing I really think should be done though....Is FIRST build a regional HSR and build expansive light-rail system throughout..... Tulsa, OKC, Little Rock, DFW, Houston, ect... THEN you can accurately describe true traffic counts and build the highways accordingly. I think a light-rail would be used a lot more than people would think in OKC.

[catch22]

Too late for that. We gutted our rails for our roads and we seem to be content with keeping it that way.