Odot

[MagzOK]

It's amazing what ODOT can do when it has the money. Ridley and his engineers actually started something new in the country with the reconstruction of the I-40 bridge collapse in Webbers Falls in 2002. He implemented incentives and disincentives within the contract itself and got the Feds to loosen all the red tape. Pretty remarkable actually.

[CaptDave]

ODOT does highways pretty well. I don't think anyone disputes that point. The work they are doing at the I235/I44 interchange will be good for north OKC and Edmond for years to come. I wish there was a way to fund it so it could be completed sooner though. I think the scheduled completion is in 2017?

They fall short in comprehensive transportation planning and implementation though. As part of the 235/44 work, there should have been provisions made to made basic preparations for an additional rail bridge beside the BNSF bridge that will be reconfigured at 50th Street. Unfortunately it appears no one thought ahead to include those basic preparations and when commuter rail becomes a reality in OKC, we will have to disrupt 235 traffic again to do what could have been done now. This is probably not all ODOT's responsibility, but I am not aware of it being given any consideration at all.

If ODOT would put half the effort into all the other modes of transportation as they do roads, our state would be much better off in the future. (And recognizing the difference between downtown streets/boulevards and expressways.....)

[Dubya61]

Ultimately won't the free market and the electorate dictate the need and arrival of other forms of transportation. I think your average Oklahoma taxpayer is fairly satisfied with the status quo. At least that's my experience but as always I could be wrong.

Maybe I drank some of JTF's kool-aid, but I don't think the free market is permitted to speak in deciding the preferential form of transportation. There is so much government involvement in the pricing of fuels and right of way funding that it would be impossible to compare rail versus highway. If the government were totally not involved, I bet that we would find rail cheaper. If that's true and rail is cheaper, the free market would have already built more rail and made good money off of it and we would be wondering why we need so much roadway.

[Larry OKC]

Good riddance to Ridley! Keeping him on was one of the many disappointments I have had with Gov. Fallin.

[Just the facts]

Maybe I drank some of JTF's kool-aid,

Not only does it taste good, it is good for you. As for free market, look at OKCs own history of streetcars. The city charged Oklahoma Rail Company to use the public right of way and offered no funding to the system while mandating a maximum fare. Meanwhile, the City built public roads for privately owned cars and let people use them for free.

[Larry OKC]

Not really free (just not toll roads)...taxes paid for them

[OKCTalker]

Not really free (just not toll roads)...taxes paid for them

+1

There is no such thing as a free road, there are merely different ways of paying for them.

[bluedogok]

+1

There is no such thing as a free road, there are merely different ways of paying for them.

THat is why I always try to use quotes whenever I discuss a "free" road. Yep, none are "free", they may just be free to access.

[Just the facts]

Not really free (just not toll roads)...taxes paid for them

Are you charged to drive on a city street? You might have paid taxes to build them but you don't pay to use it. Also, the vast majority of roads are not built with tax dollars at all; they are built by private developers who pay for it from the sale of homes along the road. The road is then turned over to the City for long-term maintenance and eventual replacement. That works pretty good in the first life-cycle, but has proved to be unsustainable after that.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of paying a per mile tax instead of a gasoline tax. Short of that I would like to see the gasoline tax raised to cover the cost of maintenance and replacement instead of using property taxes.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't whether I should've put this in the Edmond section or not, but here it is. An article outlining a few of ODOT's Eight Year projects.

ODOT plans work on S.H. 74, I-35/Waterloo interchange » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[Just the facts]

An action necessary for the department to function in the long-term, more than $4.3 billion in bridge and highway improvements are planned by the end of 2019, according to ODOT. This eight-year plan is updated each year because a blueprint is needed for rights-of-way and designing projects.

$4.3 billion over the next 8 years just in maintenance/repalcement.

[Plutonic Panda]

$4.3 billion over the next 8 years just in maintenance/repalcement.

I noticed that. If they took just a quarter of that I'm pretty sure it could fund a light-rail throughout the entire metro. Never the less, I'm sure there are people in rural Oklahoma that will be glad to see some of roads fixed.

[bluedogok]

Remember, in staes like Oklahoma (Texas and Colorado) the rural legislator tend to dominate the legislature and all the pork needs to be spread around.

[adaniel]

Remember, in states like Oklahoma (Texas and Colorado) the rural legislator tend to dominate the legislature and all the pork needs to be spread around.

Very true. The whole "spread funding among the 8 districts" thing with ODOT makes no sense since you have about 75% of the state's population living in 3 of them. Its very much a relic of the past but rural lawmakers would fight for it tooth and nail.

Also, don't forget the pull special interests have on road construction. In OK the oil and gas industry has a lot of say in what gets built. That's why I40 is now 6 lanes west of Yukon and Highway 281 between 40 and Watonga recently was widened. Both serve the Cana Gas Field. Never mind that area's population is stagnant (or in Watonga's case, declining).

[ljbab728]

Very true. The whole "spread funding among the 8 districts" thing with ODOT makes no sense since you have about 75% of the state's population living in 3 of them. Its very much a relic of the past but rural lawmakers would fight for it tooth and nail.

Also, don't forget the pull special interests have on road construction. In OK the oil and gas industry has a lot of say in what gets built. That's why I40 is now 6 lanes west of Yukon and Highway 281 between 40 and Watonga recently was widened. Both serve the Cana Gas Field. Never mind that area's population is stagnant (or in Watonga's case, declining).

I fail to see any way possible that having I40 west of Yukon as a 6 lane freeway is a benefit to the oil and gas business. The amount of traffic generated in that area by oil and gas interests is insignificant to the overall traffic. I'm sure they did not enjoy the deteriorated road conditions any more than other travelers though.

[bluedogok]

I fail to see any way possible that having I40 west of Yukon as a 6 lane freeway is a benefit to the oil and gas business. The amount of traffic generated in that area by oil and gas interests is insignificant to the overall traffic. I'm sure they did not enjoy the deteriorated road conditions any more than other travelers though.

When it comes to pork and special interest legislation you have to enter the land of suspended logic....

[ljbab728]

When it comes to pork and special interest legislation you have to enter the land of suspended logic....

Suspended logic or not, I absolutely do not believe that it was widened to six lanes only due to the influence of the oil and gas industry which derived almost no benefits.

[Bellaboo]

Suspended logic or not, I absolutely do not believe that it was widened to six lanes only due to the influence of the oil and gas industry which derived almost no benefits.

Not sure about I-40 being increased to 6 lanes out there, but I do know that where the 6 lanes end is just past Radio Road, which is having an interchange built at I-40. There are several oil related service industries expanding on Radio road and they have partnered to increase it to 4 lanes as well. fwiw

[Dubya61]

Not sure about I-40 being increased to 6 lanes out there, but I do know that where the 6 lanes end is just past Radio Road, which is having an interchange built at I-40. There are several oil related service industries expanding on Radio road and they have partnered to increase it to 4 lanes as well. fwiw

Then maybe it's anticipated traffic count.

[ou48A]

As a safety issue alone highway 281 between I-40 and Watonga has needed to be widened for decades.
I wish they would build a by-pass around Watonga and some of the other towns along the North West Passage.

[ou48A]

Very true. The whole "spread funding among the 8 districts" thing with ODOT makes no sense since you have about 75% of the state's population living in 3 of them. Its very much a relic of the past but rural lawmakers would fight for it tooth and nail.

This is why we need to reform our states funding mechanisms.
It’s why it takes 35 or so years to rebuild I-35 from I-40 to the south end of Norman!

[rcjunkie]

When it comes to pork and special interest legislation you have to enter the land of suspended logic....

"Land of suspended logic", in this case, it's more "land of make believe"

[Larry OKC]

Are you charged to drive on a city street? You might have paid taxes to build them but you don't pay to use it. Also, the vast majority of roads are not built with tax dollars at all; they are built by private developers who pay for it from the sale of homes along the road. The road is then turned over to the City for long-term maintenance and eventual replacement. That works pretty good in the first life-cycle, but has proved to be unsustainable after that.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of paying a per mile tax instead of a gasoline tax. Short of that I would like to see the gasoline tax raised to cover the cost of maintenance and replacement instead of using property taxes.

Through taxes, I am being charged for it if I drive on it or not. Even if the road is built by a private developer and then turned over to the city for maint etc, where does the CIty get the revenue for that? Taxes. You are already paying a "per mile tax" every time you fill up. Depending on your mileage, you may be paying more or less than someone else. The key there is if one tax replaces the other, but knowing how government works, we will end up with both taxes.

[Just the facts]

Larry - let's keep it simple.

When you pull out of your driveway onto the street are you paying a fee to drive on the city street? The answer to that is no. Do you pay a tax for a gallon of gas? Yes. Is a tax on gas a fee for driving on a street? No, or else you also have to say I pay a fee for mowing my grass using a gas powered lawn mower. Depending on gasoline milage the amount paid per mile varies for everyone. Heck, some cars don't even use gasoline (natural gas, electric, hydrogen, diesel, biomass, used cooking oil, lollipop wishes, etc). We probably should switch to a funding strucutre that charges the people using it. While we are at it we should also consider charging what it actually costs to build, maintain, and eventually replace. I'll bet that would be bring far-flung road construction to a halt.

[Just the facts]

If we go that route Sid then we should switch from a volume tax to a sales tax. That sales tax though should cover the cost of expansion, maintenance, and eventual repalcement. How about tacking a $1,000 public road access fee on the purchase of a new car? It would raise $14 billion in 2013 which will close about half of the funding gap for interstate highways. We would have to go to about $5000 per car to close the gap at the state and city levels