Is Norman going downhill??

[ou48A]

How could Norman go downhill when it never was uphill?

Norman has long had many unique qualities that if properly exploited could increase the quality of life for virtually all of its residents.

[Bunty]

How could Norman go downhill when it never was uphill?

Surely, you jest, like silly. The total number of housing unit construction permits issued in Norman for 2012 stood at 1010 (314 single family structures) as of the end of September. Aside from Oklahoma City's total, which is more than twice as big, this 1010 figure is well beyond every other jurisdiction in the metro area and is close to being as big as Tulsa's. (If you want to get picky over how the numbers break down, Edmond has 435 for single family.) Compare Norman's figure to another major college town, Stillwater, which is only 65.

[Bunty]

Norman has long had many unique qualities that if properly exploited could increase the quality of life for virtually all of its residents.

Like how? The Fred Jones Jr. Museum of Art is sure fantastic.

[Monkeypony]

i spend lot of time in Ft Collins, Colorado. Ft Collins reminds me alot of Norman, ( but with mountains) however, what they have done is essentially turned the downtown area into a little hub of shops, restaurants, and basically places to hang out. The main difference i see is that they have closed out traffic in the middle of downtown ( to allow folks to walk! ) What a concept!!!! and they encourage musicians and artists to hang out and dance, play etc for entertainment of the public. They have tablea outside and many places to sit, benches etc. and pets etc are welcomed to sit with their human parents. Consider its alot colder up there near wyoming and we have better weather overall. I think we should cionsider mimicking what they have done to turn their little city into a tourist destination! ps they have a University too similar to OU and population is similar to Norman.

[venture]

It is an interesting concept to close Main Street and open it up to only pedestrian traffic, but I'm not sure there is any feasible option to redirect the 3 lanes of traffic around. At least not in a safe manner or one that doesn't require a lot of relocating of buildings.

[HangryHippo]

This is probably blasphemy, but what if they closed some of the streets in and around Campus Corner?

[Bunty]

It is an interesting concept to close Main Street and open it up to only pedestrian traffic, but I'm not sure there is any feasible option to redirect the 3 lanes of traffic around. At least not in a safe manner or one that doesn't require a lot of relocating of buildings.

Tulsa tried that, but it didn't work out.

[venture]

Tulsa tried that, but it didn't work out.

Doesn't meant it won't work in another city. I've seen it in several and where its worked out pretty well. However, it is going to have to come down on a city by city basis. Just because something didn't work in Tulsa doesn't mean it wouldn't work in Norman. Tulsa is by far not a model city for anyone else. Each city is different and it has to be evaluated that way.

[Buffalo Bill]

Pedestrian malls have been enormously successful in college towns. Iowa City, Ann Arbor, Boulder, Charlottesville, Madison, and as mentioned above, Fort Collins. Campus corner may be the best place to do it in Norman.

[soonerguru]

The pedestrian mall is not the magic bullet to improve Norman. Such concepts are largely passe and were envisioned in the Eighties. We've moved on from them. Campus Corner is fine with cars but Norman needs to create a more vibrant urban core. The problem is the city leadership still doesn't view Norman as a city.

WHY is Norman one of the only major university towns in the United States without hotels adjacent to the university?

WHY is there not more high-density, quality housing being constructed in the inner core?

Norman is S-L-O-W to change. But it is also a sleeping giant. It used to be the best city in the state for quality of life but it is lagging behind OKC and Tulsa now. Quality planning with an emphasis on rebuilding the city's core could make an immeasurable impact.

The city leadership (developers and bankers) have developed West Norman to the exclusion of everything else. They need to quit focusing on this (this area will develop regardless) and focus on what to do to transition the central core into a more dense, vibrant area. They have more to work with than 99% of Oklahoma towns and they are squandering it.

[kevinpate]

Is it really squandering if the majority of inner core folk actively resist significant changes, preferring their existing way of life and sense of community, and elect representatives who support their positions in that regard? Not saying there isn't room for growth and expansion in the interior, but I've met many who seem perfectly fine for new growth to occur elsewhere in the city.

[venture]

I think you have to have a balance. Sure the Western part of Norman, especially NW, where it is just another worthless cookie cutter suburb development just makes Norman like any other burb. I really like Central Norman how it is now, but could definitely see more development near Downtown that would include more high density housing. However, I really like the feel of Central Norman and the community. Some people posting how they want Lindsey going to 4 lane through this area would just trash it and they show no regard for the people that actually live there. Driving through there again the other day, there is no way to 4 lane it anyway without removing a significant portion of people's yards, drive ways, and even some buildings...not to mention a ton of trees. Screw that.

[ou48A]

If we turn the main Campus Corner (Asp) streets into a pedestrian mall it’s going to require a very expensive parking solution. We need to think about who would be paying for a parking garage and where it would be located? It makes a pedestrian mall not very likely.

[ou48A]

The pedestrian mall is not the magic bullet to improve Norman. Such concepts are largely passe and were envisioned in the Eighties. We've moved on from them. Campus Corner is fine with cars but Norman needs to create a more vibrant urban core. The problem is the city leadership still doesn't view Norman as a city.

WHY is Norman one of the only major university towns in the United States without hotels adjacent to the university?

WHY is there not more high-density, quality housing being constructed in the inner core?

Norman is S-L-O-W to change. But it is also a sleeping giant. It used to be the best city in the state for quality of life but it is lagging behind OKC and Tulsa now. Quality planning with an emphasis on rebuilding the city's core could make an immeasurable impact.

The city leadership (developers and bankers) have developed West Norman to the exclusion of everything else. They need to quit focusing on this (this area will develop regardless) and focus on what to do to transition the central core into a more dense, vibrant area. They have more to work with than 99% of Oklahoma towns and they are squandering it.

I don’t think there is any doubt that the OU area could use a major hotel.
I believe that higher end condos that are not near the railroad tracks would do well.

I do believe that quality planning with an emphasis on rebuilding the city's core is needed.... but if this is to occur transportation needs to be modernized and in a very major way.

Simply put, it takes far too long to make your way in and out of this part of Norman on an everyday bases to make this area very attractive to major new development.

[ou48A]

I think you have to have a balance. Sure the Western part of Norman, especially NW, where it is just another worthless cookie cutter suburb development just makes Norman like any other burb. I really like Central Norman how it is now, but could definitely see more development near Downtown that would include more high density housing. However, I really like the feel of Central Norman and the community. Some people posting how they want Lindsey going to 4 lane through this area would just trash it and they show no regard for the people that actually live there. Driving through there again the other day, there is no way to 4 lane it anyway without removing a significant portion of people's yards, drive ways, and even some buildings...not to mention a ton of trees. Screw that.

It’s so easy to say not to build a needed project, but we seldom see any practical alternatives from the detractors.



Taking the needed right-of-way from the north side of Lindsey so that it can be brought up to modern day standards is a very practical alternative. Our congestion is a quality of life issue that needs improvement

[venture]

It’s so easy to say not to build a needed project, but we seldom see any practical alternatives from the detractors.

Taking the needed right-of-way from the north side of Lindsey so that it can be brought up to modern day standards is a very practical alternative. Our congestion is a quality of life issue that needs improvement

Is it really a quality of life issue when the people in that neighborhood don't want it done? I would think their wishes are more important that someone that lives 3 miles away.

[ou48A]

Is it really a quality of life issue when the people in that neighborhood don't want it done? I would think their wishes are more important that someone that lives 3 miles away.

The wishes of a couple of dozen people should not trump the wishes of tens of thousands more people who work, live and visit this part of Norman on a regular bases.

As a University the congestion hinders OU’s growth and development and the redevelopment that’s needed in the nearby area.
The congestion directly impacts everybody’s safety.

If you don’t like this instead of just saying no why don’t you come forth with practical alternatives?

[kevinpate]

Is is often interesting to observe how the perspective of advocating development can shift amongst folk when it's neither their property, nor adjacent property, that would be altered.

[gamecock]

The pedestrian mall is not the magic bullet to improve Norman. Such concepts are largely passe and were envisioned in the Eighties. We've moved on from them. Campus Corner is fine with cars but Norman needs to create a more vibrant urban core. The problem is the city leadership still doesn't view Norman as a city.

WHY is Norman one of the only major university towns in the United States without hotels adjacent to the university?

WHY is there not more high-density, quality housing being constructed in the inner core?

Norman is S-L-O-W to change. But it is also a sleeping giant. It used to be the best city in the state for quality of life but it is lagging behind OKC and Tulsa now. Quality planning with an emphasis on rebuilding the city's core could make an immeasurable impact.

The city leadership (developers and bankers) have developed West Norman to the exclusion of everything else. They need to quit focusing on this (this area will develop regardless) and focus on what to do to transition the central core into a more dense, vibrant area. They have more to work with than 99% of Oklahoma towns and they are squandering it.

I really like the idea of making Campus Corner a pedestrian walk. One of the times I enjoy Campus Corner most is on OU gamedays when everything is closed to traffic. It would be great to have an environment like that. I have spent some time in Charlottesville, VA, and that area is so nice (see photo). If you close off the roads, you have a lot of space for outdoor seating, and it draws people to the area. That said, I think it would be highly risky since Campus Corner is already a pretty great area. And, yes, parking would be an issue. In the long-run, though, I think there would be real benefits.

charlottesville.jpg

[venture]

Is is often interesting to observe how the perspective of advocating development can shift amongst folk when it's neither their property, nor adjacent property, that would be altered.

Isn't it though? Pathetic if you ask me.

The wishes of a couple of dozen people should not trump the wishes of tens of thousands more people who work, live and visit this part of Norman on a regular bases.

As a University the congestion hinders OU’s growth and development and the redevelopment that’s needed in the nearby area.
The congestion directly impacts everybody’s safety.

If you don’t like this instead of just saying no why don’t you come forth with practical alternatives?

Ahh...so that apartment complex in your wonderful little suburbia utopia shouldn't have listened to you and your ilk since the majority of Norman would likely be okay with it?

OU has plenty of access options. Hwy 9 provides relatively easy access to Campus. If people don't like the traffic on Lindsey, take Hwy 9 or Main Street. I do it every day and don't complain.

As far as providing alternatives, there is an ENTIRE thread on this subject that we covered before. I suggest you go back and read it.

[ou48A]

Isn't it though? Pathetic if you ask me.



Ahh...so that apartment complex in your wonderful little suburbia utopia shouldn't have listened to you and your ilk since the majority of Norman would likely be okay with it?

OU has plenty of access options. Hwy 9 provides relatively easy access to Campus. If people don't like the traffic on Lindsey, take Hwy 9 or Main Street. I do it every day and don't complain.

As far as providing alternatives, there is an ENTIRE thread on this subject that we covered before. I suggest you go back and read it.

What thread is that? Please show me a link. THANKS

[ou48A]

Is is often interesting to observe how the perspective of advocating development can shift amongst folk when it's neither their property, nor adjacent property, that would be altered.

What’s even more interesting is how city of Norman leadership is willing to continually put aside the interest of the overwhelming majority and reduce future opportunities for the community.

[jedicurt]

What’s even more interesting is how city of Norman leadership is willing to continually put aside the interest of the overwhelming majority and reduce future opportunities for the community.

but they do let us raise chickens in our back yards!!!!

[ou48A]

but they do let us raise chickens in our back yards!!!!

LOL, but only 4

[soonerguru]

If we turn the main Campus Corner (Asp) streets into a pedestrian mall it’s going to require a very expensive parking solution. We need to think about who would be paying for a parking garage and where it would be located? It makes a pedestrian mall not very likely.

Correct. This is a bad idea all around and hopefully it gains no traction. Especially now that Norman actually has successfully recruited a retail / services / restaurant mix to Campus Corner that appears to be working. A great way to kill that momentum would be to remove on-street parking options.