Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[venture]

Southwest announced 1x daily MDW flight from TUL will be added.

[catch22]

If I have time I can go through the DOT data and get the actual income for UA on the route to compare, but I'm sure it is satisfactory for them. For B6, I don't think it would be enough to make it work.

It's very profitable. United carries a ton of local NYC passengers via IAH. Leaving the nonstop fares higher by putting price sensitive people on connections.

[venture]

Just an update. The AIR21 slots available out of DCA had their application period close today. JetBlue applied for DCA-JAX (Jacksonville, FL) which currently has service on United. Southwest did apply for the slots as well, but this time they applied for Houston Hobby-DCA instead of resubmitting the last application for OKC-DCA. HOU currently does not have nonstop service to DCA, but there is nonstop service from IAH on United.

Unfortunately I have a feeling this was our one chance to get DCA service and now we'll have to wait and see if US Airways wants to come here or more slots are opened up. Considering the build up coming to HOU, I can't blame WN at all.

[catch22]

Just an update. The AIR21 slots available out of DCA had their application period close today. JetBlue applied for DCA-JAX (Jacksonville, FL) which currently has service on United. Southwest did apply for the slots as well, but this time they applied for Houston Hobby-DCA instead of resubmitting the last application for OKC-DCA. HOU currently does not have nonstop service to DCA, but there is nonstop service from IAH on United.

Unfortunately I have a feeling this was our one chance to get DCA service and now we'll have to wait and see if US Airways wants to come here or more slots are opened up. Considering the build up coming to HOU, I can't blame WN at all.

Hold the phone....

US Airways is playing the Southwest game now!

SWA, JetBlue, US Air Apply For DCA Slots — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

US Airways
US Airways, proposes to inaugurate the first-ever nonstop service between DCA and Oklahoma City using 99-seat 2-class E190 equipment.

DCA-OKC 1350-1610
OKC-DCA 1640-2030

US Airways states its proposal fully meets the departments goals as it would not replicate current service, but would provide access to a community without existing nonstop service to DCA.

[venture]

LOL I need to make more obscure comments in the future and maybe they'll start coming through. Hmm...how to get WN to Mexico, G4 to Florida, B6 to New York.

[catch22]

Politics will play a large role in this decision.

US Airways got theirs in the last award process, Southwest will get theirs this time around. I think Southwest knows this, so they applied for one of their stronger hubs (in lieu of OKC) knowing they are owed one now by their lobbyists/politicans.

US Airways is picking OKC because they know they have some politicians on their side and picked OKC specifically because Southwest did the last time around, and can use Southwest's previous argument against them and Southwest really can't contest it without flip-flopping.

I still believe this will go to Southwest/Hobby. As much as I'd like to see US Airways/Oklahoma City.

[venture]

Yeah I tend to agree. One of the guys on anet made a good point. The WN app for HOU-DCA is going to serve more people and have a bigger impact. OKC-DCA is going to be flown by an Embraer 190 (mainline still) and is focused more on a point-to-point market. Yes there are some connecting opportunities in DCA, but nothing that warrants an AIR21 slot. It is also the lowest capacity aircraft proposed on any of the routes. If US Airways really wanted to do OKC-DCA they have plenty of slots to make it happen.

This is more or less just throwing the route back at WN's face and being like "well if you thought it was so good last time, then we should get it approved and HOU can wait until next time."

[catch22]

http://www.regulations.gov/contentSt...ontentType=pdf

Above is US Airways' application to the DOT.

They are also proposing if they receive the route, they will begin non stop service twice daily to their Charlotte hub on CRJ-700 and CRJ-900 equipment

Proposed Flight Schedule:

OKC-CLT 715a Departure CRJ7/9
CLT-OKC 1247p Arrival CRJ7/9
OKC-CLT 130p Departure CRJ7/9
DCA-OKC 410p Arrival E190
OKC-DCA 440p Departure E190
CLT-OKC 1002p Arrival CRJ7/9

[venture]

Thanks for posting that. For whatever reason the stupid site won't load the application for me.

I like the flight schedule. Would like to see something added in mid afternoon to PHL to connect with the int'l bank.

[catch22]

Some of my opinion....


From the wording of their application, and the fact they also want to start CLT service. It seems they are actually probably ready (or truly do want) to start service with or without this approval. They are using CLT service in the application as leverage...

If they don't get approved I bet they will still start service, using their own slot to DCA or at least add service to Charlotte. They are probably thinking they might as well see if they can get approved for the slots anyway. Kind of like if you are going to buy something one way or another, you see if you can find any good deals, but if you don't you still end up buying the item.

[venture]

I could buy that. At the end of 2011 I was told that US Airways would start looking at re-expanding back into the Central US and also the Great Lakes/Midwest that they largely abandoned when they closed PIT down. This could be further evidence of it.

[HangryHippo]

Traveling to DC a lot these days and a flight into DCA would make my day!

[catch22]

US Airways proposes Oklahoma City to D.C. match up | NewsOK.com

[catch22]

Regulations.gov

Hit "Comment Now!" in the upper right to submit a comment to the DOT on this proposal by US Airways.

[HangryHippo]

What exactly does one state in this comment section? Just my case for why I'd support the hell out of a flight to DCA?

[catch22]

Some keywords I'd recommend:

Will help keep OKC's air service diversified and competitive.
Ex: US Airways is a new entrant to OKC and would lower fares across the board while providing more consumer options for a smaller sized city
Will link important government centers and employment sectors.
Will be beneficial for Washington DC and Oklahoma City.
Last medium sized metro within the DCA perimeter without nonstop service to DCA.


Southwest is starting a petition campaign of people to support their DCA-HOU application, so we need to be sending as many comments as possible. Of course it's not a popularity contest, but if they see a lot of comments from our city, it will help give weight to US's application.

[venture]

Interesting that WN did a petition drive for DCA-AUS and now DCA-HOU, but never did for DCA-OKC. I wonder if they knew they were going to lose and just tossed it up there to keep their hat in the ring. IOW, they weren't every serious or committed to actually operating the route.

Most opinions right now have WN as the heavy favorite to win this one. US Airways sitting on something like 470 slots already doesn't really help their case. LOL

[CaptDave]

Done - I hope it is approved. Non-stop back to NC and DC would be nice. Will be able to visit family with faster and maybe less expensive flights.

Thanks for the comment guidance catch22.

[HangryHippo]

Okay, I'll be submitting my comment today.

I second the captain, thanks for the comment guidance, catch!

[catch22]

Done - I hope it is approved. Non-stop back to NC and DC would be nice. Will be able to visit family with faster and maybe less expensive flights.

Thanks for the comment guidance catch22.

Between the Boulevard and this, the DOT should be used to emails and letters from Oklahoma City.... LOL

[OUman]

*deleted the post*

[damonsmuz]

So,is CLT-OKC dependent on whether or not DCA-OKC is awarded? I dont know all the rules to how routes are awarded etc, but it seems to me that if DCA-OKC is not awarded,could CLT-OKC-PHX still be possible?

[venture]

So,is CLT-OKC dependent on whether or not DCA-OKC is awarded? I dont know all the rules to how routes are awarded etc, but it seems to me that if DCA-OKC is not awarded,could CLT-OKC-PHX still be possible?

US Airways is packaging it that way. Of course if they get DCA-OKC awarded, they MUST operate the slots only for service to OKC unless they give them back up. So for them it would be pointless to open a station with one 1 flight a day, it would never be profitable. They definitely can do OKC-CLT regardless if they want to. Heck, they have nearly 500 slots that they could pull a pair from an under-performing market (or one with multiple flights) to operate DCA-OKC.

Now I want to point out that PHX isn't anywhere in their proposed schedule and from what I've heard, they'll likely never try it again. WN kicked their tail on the route (and also on LAS) and it appears for US it is mostly only going to be going East. I wouldn't be shocked though if they starts CLT and later PHL, that they try a flight or two to PHX again after the brand is established.

At this point we need to hope that OKC can get US to at least do CLT flights to get them here. I give them about a 5% shot at actually winning the slot bid. It has WN written all over it.

[venture]

I'm going to start putting some annual reviews together on air service in OKC. This is just the brief highlight of all service compared to what we started the thread with. We have seen some fluctuations during the Spring/Summer periods, but to keep it fair is compare the same times of year. I did include Cleveland on the list, but service there doesn't start until February 2013. Overall passenger services we are up 2 daily flights from what we were at starting the year. American is unchanged, Delta is up 2, Frontier is flat, Southwest is flat, and so is United.

Destination	Airline	Jan 2012 Flights	Details	Dec 2012 Flights	Details2	Change
Chicago O'Hare	American	4	2x CR7, 2x ER4	4	2x CR7, 2x ER4	0
Dallas/Ft Worth	American	7	7x MD80	7	7x MD80	0
Los Angeles	American	2	2x CR7	2	2x CR7	0
Atlanta	Delta	5	2x MD88, 1x CR9, 2x CR7	5	3x MD88, 1x CR9, 1x CR7	0
Detroit	Delta	2	2x CR7	2	1x CR9, 1x CR7	0
Memphis	Delta	3	3x CRJ	3	3x CRJ	0
Minneapolis/St Paul	Delta	2	2x CRJ	3	3x CRJ	1
Salt Lake City	Delta	2	2x CR7	3	3x CR7	1
Denver	Frontier	2	2x 319	2	1x 319, 1x E90	0
Baltimore	Southwest	1	1x 73G	1	1x 737	0
Chicago Midway	Southwest	0	1x 733 - June 3rd Start	1	1x 737	1
Dallas Love	Southwest	5	3x 73G, 2x 733	5	5x 737	0
Denver	Southwest	3	3x 737	3	3x 737	0
Houston Hobby	Southwest	4	4x 733	3	3x 737	-1
Kansas City	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Las Vegas	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Phoenix	Southwest	2	2x 73G	2	2x 737	0
St. Louis	Southwest	2	1x 73G, 1x 733	2	2x 737	0
Chicago O'Hare	United	5	4x CR7, 1x ER4	4	3x CR7, 1x ER4	-1
Cleveland	United	0	No service	0	Starting Feb 2013	0
Denver	United	4	1x 319, 3x ER4	4	1x 319, 1x CR7, 2x DH4	0
Houston Inctl	United	9	3x DH4, 6x ER4	10	1x 320, 1x CR7, 8x ER4	1
Los Angeles	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0
New York/Newark	United	1	1x ER4	1	1x ER4	0
San Francisco	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0
Washington Dulles	United	1	1x CR7	1	1x CR7	0

[catch22]

2013 will show a better YOY gain. Overall capacity is up for 2012, as larger equipment has been used this year.