Friends for a Better Boulevard

[kevinpate]

Shadid seems to get it.
Four other seats are coming up for election, should there be four candidates willing and available who also get it.
Not suggesting wrestling a seat out from under any incumbent is ever a cakewalk, but the math sure is.
1 gets it seat + 4 new gets it seats = 5 gets it seats.


Just laying this down and walking away, because I am merely an observer, not an OKC voter.

[Dubya61]

The view down California toward Myriad Gardens could be developed into an iconic street for motorists arriving to downtown from the west. Then let's build the boulevard described by Mayor Cornett along the SW 3rd right of way but extend that all the way to Exchange ...

... we could create two very special streets that would be grand entrances to downtown

I know that there are much more thoughtful and scientific ideas behind what the boulevard should be, but to me the idea of an iconic boulevard conjures up images of a parade route. Neither an elevated nor a depressed boulevard fits that image. I want the OKC Boulevard to host the parade that celebrates the NBA Champions Oklahoma City Thunder. I want a St Patrick's Day Parade, Hallowe'en Parade and a Gay Pride Parade to run down the boulevard. I want the parade route to be CaptDave's SW 3rd St and it can join up with the Stockyards City Christmas Parade.

[CaptDave]

Is there enough ROW on 3rd?

There are presently two traffic lanes with on street parking on SW 3rd from Lee to Western, and two traffic lanes to Exchange. There will be enough land between Lee and Walker to transition from the standard city street right of way to the much wider "boulevard" to the east. From a satellite photo, it appears to be sufficient space to accomodate automotive traffic and streetcar along that axis. The businesses in that areas do not appear to depend on street parking for their customers.

[CaptDave]

I've always wanted to see 3rd extended east too to create a new street wall in Lower Bricktown.

I like this as well. I think it is likely once the boulevard is in place. Hopefully Harkins will find a way to better relate to the new boulevard if there isn't enough space to build between the blvd and theater. The planners and engineers have done a good job in this area given the constraints of connecting the street level to the interstate ramps. I think JTF's spiral idea is very cool but have no idea if it is feasible at that location. I think we are beyond the point that could be incorporated though since there is so much ramp already built.

[CaptDave]

Oh - I failed to state this clearly - we would still have Reno running between the California and SW 3rd Streets. If someone really wants a through street - we already have one. The Project 180 upgrades along Reno are very nice and could be extended all the way to the Farmer's Market District. If for some reason it is too difficult to run streetcar down SW 3rd all the way to Exchange, it could run down Reno to Exchange. I think development would explode along these three axes if our city leaders will set the conditions for it to happen.

Additionally, it would enhance, rather than degrade, the infrastructure used by the existing businesses in the industrial area west of Shartel. One of the lamest rebuttals I have heard during this entire discussion claims FBB supporters want to run the light industrial businesses out and nothing is further from the truth. There is no reason a nice street with a streetcar cannot run through an area such as exists east of the Farmer's Market.

[Spartan]

So who among you guys are running for which wards? That's the only question left at this point.

[jamesg]

The biggest problem that I see with the current proposed design is the ghettoization of the area between western ave. and the park; and the proposed boulevard and the new I-40 alignment. All the current proposals for this area make it hard to reach and awful for future development. Specifically, there are currently 6 north/south streets into this area (Western, Classen, Shartel, Lee, Walker and Hudson). Of those 6 three will be cut off by the proposed "bi-way", Classen, Shartel and Lee. That will make it more difficult to connect to the area from the north. Of the 4 east/west streets (SW 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th) two will be cut by the proposed raceway (I mean boulevard), SW 2nd and 3rd streets. Keep in mind that there will be NO access to this area from the east because of the park. As a result the Boulevard half of the streets into this area will be cut. In order to develop this area the grid needs to be restored.

[LandRunOkie]

One thing that just passed is the official notice of the city's election next year.

Wards 1 (Gary Marrs), 3 (Larry McAtee), 4 (Pete White) and 7 (Skip Kelly) are up in 2013.

Ward 1 is staunchly conservative from the voting maps I've seen. The other incumbents have certainly left the door ajar for an urbanist candidate to challenge. Here's the ward map. I would be on board with Sid if he decided to run.
Do people have to live within the ward they're running for or just within city limits? It would be hard to find qualified candidates who will work for 12,000/year in the NE/SW/far SE part of city.

[Spartan]

Pete White has definitely punted on this issue, but overall he should have been better than that. I hope he runs for reelection, the others I hope we can get rid of, I just don't see how.

Yes, you absolutely have to live in the ward.

[Larry OKC]

City Council has never been willing to challenge Couch.

He's been very astute in terms of lining up support on these big issues long before it gets to the council meetings.

Therein lies the problem. He should have been replaced several years ago instead of being given raises. The last one was unanimously approved. Can't imagine Councilman Shadid voting for it so maybe he wasn't present for that vote.

[Larry OKC]

I did some follow up and have been told that Stantec was actually given no initial restrictions, hence the 40 wide ranging initial options including return to grid options (although probably not as soon as some may have wanted).

Unfortunately, that isn't true, there were several restrictions reported in the paper recently.

The reason that return to grid was not considered was that it was a federal mandate to replace the old I 40 with a "boulevard" that would act as a bypass if it were necessary to shut down the new I 40. Neither ODOT, nor the city nor any evil, shadowy entity could change that mandate. So you need to redirect your anger at the Federal Highway Administration and away from city staff/leadership.

I would like to see documentation on this. If no Boulevard were to be build there are multiple "bypasses" one can use to get around a closed I-40. Even if the "mandate" did exist at some point, mandates can be changed.

ON EDIT: Hutch gave a very good response to this

I do recall back when this was in the planning stages, then Mayor Humphreys was against keeping the current alignment as it was too expensive to maintain (over $1 million/yr). Then when the route was chosen, he wanted to keep the old crosstown as a "business route". The logic was missing as most of the damage done to our highways is by semis, mostly semis would be taking the business route. If we couldn't afford the $1 maint before, how could we suddenly afford it now???

[Just the facts]

You must live in the ward you represent. And thanks for the nod, but I'm not qualified to run. For more information: City of Oklahoma City | Council Election Cycle

Maybe you could setup a puppet regime and wield power from behind the curtain.

[Just the facts]

I'm not that smart. Or wealthy. ;-)

No problem there. All we need is Spartan to label you a junta or cabal. The rest will take care of itself.

[Tier2City]

In light of the issues that emerged last night I'd really encourage people to first re-read Steve's Flashback piece from December 1998 (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/29/flashback-route-chosen-for-new-interstate-40) when the I-40 relocation route was chosen. It's also worth reading Steve's piece from the end of July this year that gives some important context about downtown in 1998 (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/27/context-1998).

With that in mind if you're going to watch just 6 minutes of the video from last night (now up on the City's home page at http://okc.gov) then watch Blair Humphreys' questions between 0:57:00 and 1:03:30. You can see Eric Wenger making it very clear that the boulevard must be an emergency I-40 bypass (I guess it would be I-440 under the AASHTO interstate numbering system?) is a Federal Highway Administration requirement. You can also see David Streb very grudgingly admit that return to the grid would be possible since the Environmental Impact Statement has to be revisited but David continues to push the agreements between ODOT and Council from that time. I'm sure David can't be happy with Blair's questions - those "agreements" or "commitments" were between Neal McCaleb and Blair's father!

[ljbab728]

Steve posted this entertaining video commentary by Sean Cummings on his blog.

Sean Cummings on the Boulevard | OKC Central

[kevinpate]

Maybe you could setup a puppet regime and wield power from behind the curtain.

That's not running for office is it? That seems more akin to being hired as a city manager or something like it.

[LandRunOkie]

How cool would it be if Unfrsakn could get some HD footage of the same area down there, for the record?

[CaptDave]

ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION

Friends, this is how we persuade OKC/ODOT to build the Boulevard in a manner that is acceptable to the 600 people on this FB Group or other concerned citizens on OKCTalk, but we only have twelve days to act.

The Federal Highway Administration operates somewhat like a court of law. The judge can only decide a case based on the evidence presnted. Not from evidence presented on a FB group, not from a message board, not from a blog, not from a newspaper article, or a radio and TV interview; they must have your written comments in front of them.

If you are serious about a Better Boulevard you must get your comment written and in front of them...now. Ten letters won't influence them but 200, 300, 400, a 1000 or more letters will. Please get your family and friends to make their comments and mail them in ASAP.

This is the most important step you can take. Please act now.

Comment form: http://www.odot.org/meetings/a2012/1...mentform_e.pdf

[OKCisOK4me]

I think they'd only be swayed with 90,000 letters since that seems to be a number they like...

[CaptDave]

^ Ha ha - too funny. Let's hope we can convince at least 5 members of the city council to remove the blinders and give the "Two Boulevards on the Grid" design an honest assessment.

[Just the facts]

"Two Boulevards on the Grid"

I love that name.

[catcherinthewry]

Unfortunately, that isn't true, there were several restrictions reported in the paper recently.

Of course there were eventually restrictions, but I said no INITIAL restrictions. If there had been restrictions from the beginning, Stantec would've come up with far fewer options. There were several stages in the consultation. With each successive stage the options were fine tuned and narrowed in number. That's the way consulting works.

I would like to see documentation on this. If no Boulevard were to be build there are multiple "bypasses" one can use to get around a closed I-40. Even if the "mandate" did exist at some point, mandates can be changed.

"You can see Eric Wenger making it very clear that the boulevard must be an emergency I-40 bypass"

Got this from post 1447. The quote was from Monday night's meeting.

[LandRunOkie]

What Wenger said was that the city was bound by an agreement with Federal DOT called a ROD (?) to build the boulevard as a bypass. Some lady questioned him on the necessity of a bypass and he gave her a funny look and went to the next question. It isn't clear that the feds required a bypass, only that the ROD specified a bypass. I asked a Federal official about this today but haven't heard back yet.

In fairness to him, she should have asked him the direct question "Do the Federal officials require a bypass" instead of saying "I don't think they require a bypass". It's much harder to dodge a direct question than a statement.

[CaptDave]

"You can see Eric Wenger making it very clear that the boulevard must be an emergency I-40 bypass"

Got this from post 1447. The quote was from Monday night's meeting.

There is no requirement for this street to be an alternate interstate highway in the Federal Highway Administrations Record of Decision. Even if there were such a requirement in the RoD, it is going to be changed anyway since the city is modifying it from a 6 lanes to 4. The entire "alternate interstate" fallacy stems from a conversation that occurred over ten years ago between Neal McCaleb and former Mayor Humphries.

I do not think the people who are buying that line have really thought about the road network in OKC. Ten years ago and until it was finally demolished, I40 was an elevated 4 lane highway that had chunks of road deck falling out of it regularly. There was nowhere for motorists to go if there was a hole in the roadway or a wreck on the bridge deck. Now we have TEN lanes of interstate on the ground - it is highly unlikely the entire interstate will need to be closed. Additionally, there are numerous alternate routes already in place that can handle the traffic volume on I40 MUCH better than a street through downtown can - does I235, I35, I44, I240, and the Turnpike sound familiar? A few programmable signs outside the interstate loops surrounding OKC would be sufficient to warn drivers to divert around any problem if it was ever necessary.

The city has changed dramatically since then and the city has stated it wished to bring more activity and development back to downtown. Building a slightly modified IM Pei derivative makes no sense whatsoever. We realize now that highways dividing downtown was a bad idea then, and an even worse idea now.

Eric is a good guy and he is trying to do his job as he has been directed. I like him and he has always been willing to discuss this with me even though we don't agree. I tend to give him a break because I think he just wants to get this done regardless of the final design.

[Plutonic Panda]

Could it be, perhaps, propaganda for another 6lane elevated high speed (highway) that ODOT clearly wants?