Crossroads Mall

[Martin]

i've shopped at crossroads nearly my whole life. while the mall has been on a downward trend for the ten or so years, i'd say that it has deteriorated drastically in the last couple years. the last time i went was a couple months ago and i'd have to say that ghetto is not an overstatement. if it weren't for the anchors there'd be nothing there. needless to say, i don't shop there regularly any more and after my last experience i'll likely avoid it further.

as a provider of quality goods and services, crossroads is dying away. however, the likelihood of the mall being torn down in the next ten years is pretty slim in my opinion.

what would it take to bring crossroads back to life? first and foremeost, the mall needs to rid itself of loitering teens and wanna-be gang members. they just take up space, damage property and scare off real customers.



as for the norman project, when the plan said 'theatre' did it imply a movie theatre? if so, i-35 is already saturated. crossroads has a first-run & a dollar theatre. warren is building between fourth and 19th on i-35. norman has a first run & a dollar theatre on robinson & i-35. i'm not sure that the market could bear another theatre.

-M

[SoonerDave]

as for the norman project, when the plan said 'theatre' did it imply a movie theatre? if so, i-35 is already saturated

Agree completely. There's already a recognition that the theater market in the central OKC area is saturated, which made the Warren Theaters project a surprise unto itself, but to think Norman wants to build yet antoher one just down I-35 is just bizarre.

Pardon the pun, but Crossroads is at a crossroads. They're not yet in the nearly-vacant position that Heritage Park is, but they're not far from it. The owners need to wake up and do something...

-SoonerDave

[writerranger]

Those of you familiar with Houston might know of Sharpstown Mall in SW Houston just off the SW Freeway (59). At one time, it was the showplace mall of Houston, the first indoor, air-conditioned mall in all of Greater Houston. It anchored the first Foley's and people drove from all around to see it. Fast forward to today: Sharpstown Mall is a ghetto unto itself. Management tried extensive renovations a couple of times but could not get rid the crime element. In fact, and this is sad, the Houston Police Department has a full sub-station inside the mall. Sometimes when they're lost - they're lost. I fear Crossroads is at the threshhold of crossing that point of no return and being lost - for good.

[Luke]

I'm thinking Crossroads Mall may be a lost cause as well.

If Crossroads is to come back, they need to rename it, redo the outside of it, add landscaping throughout the parking lot, do a massive interior renovation, and send out a press release explaining how their standards are moving up, several tenants are being released and many new leases have been signed with national retailers.

After this renaming and massive changes, an ad campaign all over OKC and even Oklahoma boasting Oklahoma's newest and biggest mall with absolutely no reference to Crossroads, then MAYBE they can pull out of this ghetto mindset and people would return.

But, from what I see, this management is VERY poor. And I doubt any of that will happen.

[SoonerDave]

Historically, I think Crossroads has been *horribly* managed. I'm no property expert, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you have to maintain, upgrade, remodel a high-profile retail property like that to keep it contemporary. For heaven's sake, look what they did with Penn Square and how it has blossomed in the last 15 years?

-SoonerDave

[writerranger]

Historically, I think Crossroads has been *horribly* managed. I'm no property expert, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you have to maintain, upgrade, remodel a high-profile retail property like that to keep it contemporary. For heaven's sake, look what they did with Penn Square and how it has blossomed in the last 15 years?-SoonerDave

I agree, Dave. 100%. The funny thing is - and I said this in another post maybe months back - if Penn Square were developed today as it was originally, we would all think it was pretty cool. That whole outside shopping square with pretty flower-filled landscaping would be considered "different" and "urban-flavored." Ironic really. Because they took all that and transformed it into an almost perfect suburban mall. They have done most everything right at Penn Square. But it's fun to remember how unique the original Penn Square was and how if it were built today -- we would be oohing and aweing.

----

[Bobby H]

There's already a recognition that the theater market in the central OKC area is saturated, which made the Warren Theaters project a surprise unto itself, but to think Norman wants to build yet antoher one just down I-35 is just bizarre.

Who says all those existing theaters are going to survive?

New theaters replace old ones. Older first run theaters are often converted to 2nd run/bargain houses. Others are simply closed and either demolished or converted into some other kind of commercial building. I can point to several businesses here in Lawton whose buildings were formerly home to movie theaters (one now houses a Blockbuster Video location).

Warren Theatres' Moore 20 project is intended to be a "destination theater," with quality worth driving some considerable distance to experience. It's a new breed of multiplex starting to appear in a few places around the nation. This trend won't be as big as the stadium seated theater building frenzy that began in 1995 with AMC's The Grand 24 in Dallas. But these new theaters are definitely going to cause a lot of other cookie cutter multiplex sites to either close or be demoted to 2nd-run/bargain status.

I visited the Spotlight 14 in Norman when it first opened in the late 1990s and was not impressed at all with it then. There's nothing terribly remarkable about the Regal complex next to Crossroads Mall either. The new Warren location will take a great deal of business from both.

It's certainly feasible for a new theater to get built within Norman or on its northern fringe, mainly because Norman currently has no decent movie theater right now. The other theaters in Norman will then face an uncertain future.

[Luke]

I thought Warren had purchased some land up on Memorial and Macarthur or something like that, supposedly to be used for one of these "luxury" theaters.

I don't know if the luxuries of this Warren theater in Moore will be enough to sway the UppityNorthSiders© to drive 20-25 miles across town away from the doing-their-job-just-fine cineplexes like AMC Quail Springs or Harkins in Bricktown, especially considering they'll be watching a movie surrounded by SouthSiders©.

[hipsterdoofus]

t's the closest mall to the wealthiest zip code in Oklahoma and is at the intersection of 2 major interstates.

Maybe its because the wealthiest people don't go to the mall to shop?

Also, as far as interstates are concerned, I-240 isn't all that major...I mean, in OKC maybe it is, but, but its not like its some mother road that all traffic through town goes down.

[SoonerDave]

[quote]Maybe its because the wealthiest people don't go to the mall to shop?[quote]

That's it; I hear the wealthiest people don't go to the bathroom either; they just explode when they turn 40 or their net worth hits $1B.

Also, as far as interstates are concerned, I-240 isn't all that major

Guess you don't drive it very often, do you? Or, put another way, what do you consider major?

Let's see; it was originally two lanes both directions, then widened to six lanes around S. OKC because of traffic volume; service roads had to be rebuilt into one-way routes with Texas turn-arounds to accomodate the volume of entrance/exit traffic and accidents around the service roads; its interchange with I-35 is going to be rebuilt to handle the loads; nah, nobody uses it. Sorry for the sarcasm, but to say "I-240 isn't all that major" and then follow it up by saying "in OKC maybe it is," is a prima-facia contradiciton. In what other context might it be major??

I've driven it along with a few other umpteenthousand other folks every day to and from work for the last 18 years, and I don't think any of us would say it's not a "mother road" within S. OKC/S. OK County

Understand that, as far as supplemental, 3-digit interstates go, most large cities have a central artery like I-40, but from sheer necessity constructed a shunt around high-volume areas, which is precisely what I-240 is. In that vein, it's a *very* heavily traveled stretch, and serves as a significant route for Tinker and (former) GM employees, serves as the major route to the primary entrance to Crossroads, and carves a swath down a breadth of a densely populated region of S. OKC retail and corresponding residential areas. It also serves as an alternative route into southern Oklahoma county from eastern parts of the state. And that says nothing of the fact that it has saved the ol Crosstown from an even more precipitous decline from the traffic with which it would have inevitably been burdened had 240 never been built.

If you're comparing I-240 to, say, I-635 in Dallas, well of *course* it isn't as heavily traveled. But within the context of the region in which it was built, it is very much a "mother road." (or at least a stepmother)...

-SoonerDave

[Bobby H]

I think I-240 is significant enough of a route that more lanes will be needed for it, particularly between I-44 and I-35. As the city continues to grow items like HOV lanes will have to be considered.

Since this topic deals with the south side of the city, does anyone know when/if the Kilpatrick Turnpike's southern half may be completed? The H.E. Bailey extension off I-44 seems to be the only part of it. The superhighway stops several miles short of connecting with I-35 south of Norman. And it plops down to two lanes just after going west from I-44.

At the very least, the state needs to work on identifying future highway corridors and securing the rights of way for them in advance. Texas has been very good at doing just this sort of thing, usually by building divided four lane streets with medians wide enough to hold a superhighway to be built in the future. Kell Freeway in Wichita Falls was built in just that sort of manner.

[jbrown84]

I thought Warren had purchased some land up on Memorial and Macarthur or something like that, supposedly to be used for one of these "luxury" theaters.

I don't know if the luxuries of this Warren theater in Moore will be enough to sway the UppityNorthSiders© to drive 20-25 miles across town away from the doing-their-job-just-fine cineplexes like AMC Quail Springs or Harkins in Bricktown, especially considering they'll be watching a movie surrounded by SouthSiders©.

Trust me Luke, I've been to the Warren in Wichita and it's definitely a destination. I don't know if we Soc's will quite be convinced to come all the way down there to watch movies with Greasers, () but it's going to attract people for sure from all of the Norman/Moore/Midwest/Del City/South OKC area for sure. Harkins and AMC will be okay, but it will be the end of the boring Regal 16 at Crossroads.

[SoonerDave]

it will be the end of the boring Regal 16 at Crossroads.

I dunno...you may be right, but Warren ticket prices are going to be a notch higher - particularly with their balcony service seats - and that's going to mitigate part of the possible draw-down from the Regal @ Crossroads. Also, people/families won't part with the relative expense of the big Warren theater for a more run-of-the-mill kiddie/cartoon movie or casual flick. At least I know I won't.

Right now, our family's "destination" theater is Harkins where it used to be AMC, primarily because Harkins is a darned sight closer to home than the cross-county drive to Quail Springs.

I'm not sure what to think of the Regal @ Crossroads. I think something happened with what they planned to do with that Regal; they shut down the little coffee/snack bar in the lobby about a month after it opened, and it's just seemed kinda stagnant. Nice enough, I suppose, generally clean, etc., but kinda blah. That's our run-of-the-mill movie house.

Destination theaters carry their own risks; when Tinseltown was first opened so many years ago, I thought it would be a "destination theater", but it has turned out to be a place we've gone to once, maybe twice. And part of that is probably location.

-SoonerDave

[jbrown84]

The Warren in Wichita is no more expensive than Harkins or AMC here for a regular ticket. The balcony seats cost more, but you get what you pay for.

I just know that if I'm on the south side and I can pay basically the same price to see a movie at the Warren, I'm definitely going to choose that over the boring, dead Regal Crossroads.

[SoonerDave]

If the prices are truly the same for the non-balcony seats, then I would tend to agree with you. My understanding is that the balcony seats are there primarily to allow a segregated area for the serving of mixed drinks, which means I will never have any use for it.

I'm all for a nicer, better theater, and it sounds like Warren is going to be a first-class outfit. Looking forward to it.

-SoonerDave

[MikeLucky]

I know this is off-topic a bit, but having grown up in Wichita and experiencing Bill Warren's theaters growing from dollar to upscale top-of-the-line THX-EX.... If you care anything about the actual movie-going experience, you will drive to the Warren from ANYWHERE in the metro..... if you don't really care for the best sound, video quality, and top notch service and amenities.... then you wouldn't go to the Warren anyway.... Once it's built, I will not watch a movie anywhere else in the metro....

[Bobby H]

Regal's theater near Crossroads Mall will definitely be hurt when the Warren 20 opens. Hurt enough to close? Don't know about that, but it's possible Regal will have to change to a bargain/2nd run model. I think the Wallace/Hollywood Theaters Spotlight 14 in Norman will be in even worse shape than the Regal site from the new competition.

One thing is certain: whenever I want to see a movie in the OKC area the Moore 20 will be at the top of my list once that place opens.

[jbrown84]

The Regal could survive if it drops the prices significantly. That's what Tinseltown has had to do. I think tickets are like three dollars cheaper than AMC because that's the only way they can get anyone there.

[Patrick]

The Regal could survive if it drops the prices significantly. That's what Tinseltown has had to do. I think tickets are like three dollars cheaper than AMC because that's the only way they can get anyone there.

And it actually works. Heck, I've been going to Tinsletown a lot lately for $4 1st run movies. Pretty good deal considering you're gettig stadium seating and great sound! And really, the clientale there isn't bad. The employees are average, but I really go for the movie anyhow.

[Patrick]

Concerning Crossroads, like has already been stated, a major re-branding will have to take place now for it to take off. It can happen, but not as long as Macerich is in charge. I really think Macerich is trying to run Crossroads as a mall targeting low income folks. Just go into Steve and Barry's. Those people down there love that store. Cheap clothing!!!

This reminds me of a story my pastor told us several weeks ago. I go to a church in an inner city neighborhood. We hired some consultants awhile back to help form a master plan for the church. They told us that there were no chances our church would ever grow, that we'd just enter a steady decline, and we should just hang on for dear life. Obviously, we took that as a challenge and have completely formed a new image for our church, offering tons of stuff for young folks, a livelier more contemporary worship service, building a brand spankin new gym and youth center, reaching out to kids at nearby schools, and really making an impact in our community. So far, we're proving the consultants wrong.

I'm saying all this to say that the neighborhood Crossroads is in, does not have to dictate the quality of service they offer. They can continue to hang on to what they have, or invest to try to reach out to upscale shoppers. Choice is theirs.

[OklaCity_75]

If mall management had any common sense, the first thing they would so is talk to the city council and the South OKC Chamber of Commerce.

They could attack the problems of that area on several levels.

Apply for a federal weed and seed grant for the immediate area surrounding Crossroads. OCPD could combine resources with Oklahoma County and Valley Brook to curb crime in the area.

The city could send code enforcement out in full force to correct issues with derelict properties. Those who could not afford property clean up and repairs can be connected with community and volunteer organizations.

You could also look at taking on an urban renewal project with in a 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile radius of Crossroads. The most advanced project could be started and completed with in a two-year period.

In all actuality, I think it is what Patrick said, Maerich wants to keep it a low-income mall. I think in their perspective they believe it is impossible to compete with the other area malls. So why not cater to the lower income crowd.

I hope someday somebody will come up with the right plan to improve that area. In my own honest opinion, I think the mall will close with in the next three years. I predict Macy’s will be the first to go.

[Patrick]

I don't think the mall will close. I think it will just continue to exist as it is, catering to low income people. In all honesty, replacing Macy's with a Wal-Mart might not be a bad idea. A few flea markets, liquor stores, and pawn shops added, and we're set.

[soonerliberal]

There is a Walmart less than a mile away at I-240 and Santa Fe. I severely doubt Walmart would want to get involved in Crossroads.

If Crossroads has a chance to survive as anything above a flea market mall, I believe they will need to invest millions of dollars on inner renovations along with most of the outer ideas OklaCity_75 was floating around. For some reason, Steve and Barry's just isn't along the lines of Macy's and Dillards. If somehow Crossroads could lear Sears away from its 44th and Western superstore, that could give it a boost along with the inner and outer improvements.

Right now, I see Crossroads as being on life-support with the doctor just waiting for it do die away. My confidence is dimishing significantly however, due to the massive growth in areas in Moore and Norman.

[SoonerDave]

If somehow Crossroads could lear Sears away from its 44th and Western superstore, that could give it a boost along with the inner and outer improvements.

Sears tried to get into that space when Montgomery Wards went bankrupt, but there were legal entanglements on the Ward's bankruptcy/Crossroads side that couldn't be resolved. I think, in retrospect, it had to do with the rumor that Wards actually owned the building it used in Crossroads, rather than having leased it.

Sears is a story unto itself; the 44th and Western location is worse than a snakepit. Sad, too, because I remember it in its heyday with a filled parking lot (!), a candy counter, a coffee shop, and as the place mom and I used to go just about every week to pick up some sort of catalog order...alas, memories...

Sears to Crossroads is a good idea, just don't know if they can get it done now. Steve and Barry's is embarassing. A giant, glorified T-shirt shop. Ugh.

-SoonerDave

[Patrick]

Wards owned the space and after the went under, bankruptcy court took control of the property. Macerich spent months working through legal lingo and finally gained control of the property. Not sure why they went with Steve and Barry's over Sears. It is important to note that Steve and Barry's, although a glorified t-shirt shop, is located in some pretty high profile areas across the country.