Cannabis

[mmonroe]

Since this forum can sometimes be a brain trust, lets try this.. whats are the cause and effects of legalizing, from local crime and prison retention to the effects on the cartels and "war on drugs".

[jett713]

Here's a look at the three legalization initiatives in Colorado, Washington State and Oregon.

http://nationalcannabiscoalition.com...hington-state/

[jett713]

It sure has worked in Portugal. Maybe it could work here too.

http://www.businessinsider.com/portu...#ixzz20tp4Gctj

[jett713]

Senator Constance Johnson and Senator Brian Crain are meeting on 7/28/12 @ 4 P.M. @ the Capitol, to discuss input on what is to be covered, time line, etc to determine a hearing for Medical Cannabis. We will see if Senator Crain does not try to block this.

[kevinpate]

Prediction is - Do Not Pass by whatever committee it is assigned, and that's being charitable.

I wouldn't lay money on it even being heard in a committee. Keep in mind our R's are rather conservative, to put it mildly. Even a fair number of our D's are more conservative than a passle of R folks elsewhere in the nation.

[Maynard]

"Unintended consequences"


Courthouse News Service - Deputies Beat Him for 'Amusement,' Man Says - July 18, 2012

SAVANNAH, Ga. (CN) - Sheriff's deputies deactivated a device that controls a man's Tourette's syndrome and beat him as "a form of amusement" when he could no longer control his physical and verbal actions, the man claims in court. Charles Ray sued Chatham County Sheriff Al St. Lawrence and jail official Floyd Jackson, in Chatham County State Court. Ray, 34, suffers from Tourette's syndrome, a neurological disorder that causes uncontrollable tics and may cause obscene outbursts. He suffers from other physiological disorders as well, according to the complaint. Ray was arrested in July 2010 on drug possession charges and taken to the Chatham County jail.

At the jail, he says, deputies made him pass through a metal detector that shut down his deep brain stimulator, a battery-operated device that controls his Tourette's symptoms. "Upon being transported to his cell, plaintiff advised the sheriff's deputies which were escorting him that he should not go through the scanning device as it would affect the batteries in his Tourette's device and render it useless," the complaint states. "The deputies did not heed plaintiff's warning and forced him to go through the scanning device, which in fact did turn off his Tourette's device and cause the symptoms of Tourette's to evidence themselves, including jerking of his arms and legs, facial tics, and other neurological actions which evidenced a lack of control on plaintiff's part."

Ray says he warned the deputies that he could not control himself without the device and his medication, but they ignored him. He says the deputies denied him medication and made no effort to reactivate his device. "After the metal detector turned the battery off that charged the electrodes for the brain mapping, the plaintiff could not control his physical and verbal actions and the deputies ignored his protestations, and when he failed to control himself, he was beaten," the complaint states. "He was tied to a chair and made to stay there for hours without benefit of food, water or bathroom privileges. While abusing the plaintiff by beating him and kicking him, the deputies considered it a form of amusement and laughed at his protestations.

"The defendant's deputies, including Officer Floyd Jackson, head of the mental ward, sought to cover up their action by writing false reports that laid the blame on plaintiff, contending that he beat himself against the wall, thereby causing his many injuries." Ray says he suffered physical injuries and severe emotional trauma. He seeks damages for negligence and infliction of emotional distress. He is represented by Julian Toporek and Richard Darden. "The lawsuit is under review by our legal department and the internal affairs unit," Chief Deputy Roy Harris told Courthouse News in an interview. "We are aware of the lawsuit and are taking steps to address it."

[onthestrip]

Senator Constance Johnson and Senator Brian Crain are meeting on 7/28/12 @ 4 P.M. @ the Capitol, to discuss input on what is to be covered, time line, etc to determine a hearing for Medical Cannabis. We will see if Senator Crain does not try to block this.

I don't see why Crain would stop it, he seems to be for smoking as he was the one responsible for not hearing the bill that would allow cities to enact tougher public smoking bans

[LandRunOkie]

So it passed in Washington and Colorado... show of hands, how many of you are going "skiing" in Colorado this winter? lol

[onthestrip]

So it passed in Washington and Colorado... show of hands, how many of you are going "skiing" in Colorado this winter? lol

Me! But I actually go to Crested Butte every year anyways. I honestly see CO and WA (mostly CO) getting some serious tourism dollars because of this. I picture ski trips over christmas and spring breaks getting a little more popular with the college crowd.

The passing of this bill does seem to be a bit of a formality though, as I have seen and smelled pot being smoked a number of times on my travels to CO. I even had a guy one time pull out his pipe and have a smoke on a quad ski lift with me 3 seats away! He did it so nonchalantly that if someone didnt know any better, they wouldnt have even noticed.

[LandRunOkie]

Yeah it was the same thing at Breckenridge a few years ago. Hopefully everything goes smoothly and people around here realize decriminalization isn't the end of the world!

[OKC Heel]

I wonder how many HiPos will now be setting up in the panhandle to catch motorist coming back into the state from colorado with their herbal supplements.

I've lived in Oklahoma for almost 13 years now and i've defended this place and highlighted some of the pros that most outside of the state have no knowledge of. But it's an absolute embarrassement, just how draconian some of the laws here are with regards to marijuana. Sadly, as the rest of the nation is finally starting to realize that Reefer Madness was the worst sort of propaganda that ignorance and fear mongering can produce, Oklahoma just last year passed laws about hash and paraphernalia that show our politicians are still drinking the "dangerous gateway drug" kool-aid.

Having had my home state over run with Yankees and their Yankee attitudes, ideas, and constant complaints about the way things are, i know that an outsiders view is usually one met with a simple and usually deserved, "If you don't like it then go back to where you came from". And i'm all for states rights and state pride in being different from the rest and not changing to please the masses that exist outside your borders. But with that said, cities will dry up and blow away if they dont move forward even if they do so taking baby steps. I'm not a proponent of big changes all at once that upset the masses but please the minority. But it's time to have the discussion at least about medicinal use and to do so with respect for the facts and honesty about why it is that some continue to hold tight to the myths of marijuana that have been proven to be just that.

Possible life sentence for hash, making brownies, using a grinder? Really? Is this 2012?


SECTION 1. AMENDATORY <63> O.S. 2001, Section <2-509>, is amended to read as follows: …

D. Knowingly violating the provisions of subsection B or subsection H of this section is hereby declared, as to the owner, or person in possession of such lands, to be a felony and punishable as such by a fine not to exceed Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) and imprisonment in the State Penitentiary custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than two (2) years nor more than life. The fine provided for in this subsection shall be in addition to other punishments provided by law and shall not be in lieu of other punishment. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of subsection B or subsection H of this section is punishable by a term of imprisonment twice that otherwise authorized and by twice the fine otherwise authorized. Any sentence shall not be subject to statutory provisions for suspended sentences, deferred sentences, or probation, except when the conviction is for a first offense. …

H. Except as authorized by the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Act, it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture or attempt to manufacture any controlled dangerous substance by cooking, burning, or extracting and converting or attempting to extract and convert marihuana or marihuana oil into hashish, hashish oil or hashish powder.

[Bunty]

So if you get convicted of making hash the first time around and didn't get life in prison, then you can get up to two life times in prison for the second offense. Punishment of more than one life time in prison shouldn't make any sense to the average rational person of sound mind. I wonder if Oklahoma law is this clear on offering multiple life times in prison for repeat child molesters and rapists?

There's obviously a great deal of vindictiveness in Oklahoma toward people who use marijuana. It seems it's even more intense than that directed toward child molesters and rapists. If you molest a child between age 12 and 15, if I'm right, the punishment is only ZERO to 5 years in prison!

[Bunty]

I don't see why Crain would stop it, he seems to be for smoking as he was the one responsible for not hearing the bill that would allow cities to enact tougher public smoking bans

Crain has decided not to allow a study session at the State Capitol for medical marijuana. Maybe he doesn't want to hear complaints from Okies addicted to the nonsense of Reefer Madness, if he had done so. Ironically enough, Alabama, which many people feel is an even more backward state than Oklahoma, will be holding a public hearing next week in the Alabama State House on the medicinal use of cannabis. The hearing won't be specifically about House Bill 2, a bill that will be before the January session of the Alabama Legislature which would legalize medical marijuana. The hearing is, however, a chance for medicinal cannabis proponents to educate legislators about the medical benefits of the herb. It's too bad tha too many Oklahoma Republican state legislators are closed minded to being enlightened about what medical marijuana is good for.

[boscorama]

OKC Heel, what is HiPos?

Drivers in Oklahoma should be mindful of the laws here, before they get pulled over for burned-out tail lights, speeding, reckless driving, expired tags. DUH!

Hello, you're not in Colorado anymore ...

[mugofbeer]

OKC Heel, what is HiPos?

Drivers in Oklahoma should be mindful of the laws here, before they get pulled over for burned-out tail lights, speeding, reckless driving, expired tags. DUH!

Hello, you're not in Colorado anymore ...

I AM in Colorado and my opinion on the passage of the pot law is that if it is the will of the people, then, huraah!! The medical pot law we had was nothing but a sham for legalized pot anyway. I'd prefer to see it stay illegal but if the people want it, then get it out in the open. Next point of order, if it is illegal according to fed law, can the state law be valid?

[Plutonic Panda]

I think some simple questions need to be asked like for instance.... 1.Will the crime rate go up with legalizing weed ...I think not (but I could be wrong).. 2. People say weed leeds to other drugs and at this point it is true. My theory behind that is you have to go get weed from drugs dealers and usually ones that are in a bigger market than just selling weed. If say for instance weed was legalized you could go to a dispensary and get some from people that stay within the law and make good profit from it. So, they wouldn't have to go sell "other" products to maximize their profits. 3. What about tax revenue? Tax the piss out of it. Could be a serious money maker. Also could draw tourism since majority of states don't allow marijuana anyways.

So if the demand is there than the cartels will keep supplying I still think they will keep coming for other drugs but it would really put a dent in there share of the "market". Now, I would not recommend someone to smoke pot just as I would not recommend cigarets. There are studies that prove long term usage of pot can lead to a decrease in motor skills and intelligence. But I do support legalizing it because I think this is classic case of when the benefits out weigh the negatives.

[bluedogok]

I know some people who smoke pot or drink, no interest in any other kind of drug, they are successful, professional people. An addictive tendency will lead you to other other or deepening addictions. Most of the drug addicts that I have known started out on alcohol before moving to pot, then onto other drugs.

I've never tried it but I supported Amendment 64. My only "contact" with marijuana is the smoke inside the arena at concerts in the 80's. I remember huge clouds under the roofs at the Lloyd Noble, Myriad and Fairgrounds Arena back then. The reasons why marijuana is illegal due more to lobbyists and politics than anything else.

[LandRunOkie]

I've been doing some research on this that leads me to believe Oklahoma will be one of the last states in the union to legalize, mostly because of the referendum requirements. In Colorado, the signatures required to get a measure on the ballot is only 5% of voter turnout from the last major election (link). Here it is 15% for an ammendment (link). So it would be much harder to get a marijuana measure on the ballot, much less get it passed. And this website says

Fewer than twenty citizen referenda have been placed on the ballot, and only four have won.

On the upside, Arkansas just came within 2 percentage points of passing medical marijuana, so we could be bordered by two pro-pot states in the near future.

[bluedogok]

The two party system makes it hard to get anything on the ballot in Oklahoma, legislators don't want competition at the polls from third party candidates and they don't want the public introducing legislation without the proper inducements being paid to the right people.

The threshold is much lower here, after all, we had 17 different candidates running for president on the ballot here. I know that Texas has a pretty restrictive petition process to get on the ballot as well. I would imagine legislative petitions are similar.

[Just the facts]

I think some simple questions need to be asked like for instance.... 1.Will the crime rate go up with legalizing weed ...I think not (but I could be wrong)..

Why would having less laws lead to more crime? Legalize burglary, rape, and murder and we could wipe out violent crime. And no, I am not equating those to pot. I'm just making the point that fewer laws leads to fewer crimes. However, maybe Oklahoma would be better off seeing how things go in Washington and Colorado first - just to be safe.

From 2006

USATODAY.com - Some skeptical of Mexico's relaxed anti-drug law

Some skeptical of Mexico's relaxed anti-drug law
CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (AP) — Police and business owners from Mexico's beaches to border cities worried Sunday that a measure passed to decriminalize possession of cocaine, heroin and other drugs could attract droves of tourists solely looking to get high.

Who would have thought that decision would lead to 50,000 ultra-violent deaths in Mexico as drug cartels try to supply the market.

[mmonroe]

I use to smoke when I was in high school. I still know quite a few people that do on a regular basis. Believe it or not, it is a real sub culture here in Central Oklahoma. I even know a few people who prefer to "medicate" with it instead of buying depression meds because it's cheaper. I say all that so that you know I have a background in this topic.

I feel there are a lot of factors towards the legalization of marijuana nation wide and in each state. The tobacco companies and alcohol companies are not going to set idly by to let the legalization of marijuana pass on a federal level. If marijuana is of less demand from mexican drug cartels (if you havn't read much about the gangs in mexico as of recent, you need to, one gang is literally clearing house for territory and is killing anyone in there path, be it police, children, rival cartel leaders, federal agents, etc.) than what will they import to the US to fund their organizations?

There are also several levels of policing that go on currently. Places like Eureka Springs, Arkansas have not decriminalized it nor made it legal, but have made it the lowest priority amongst it's police force. Then there are different counties and states that have made medical use okay, but have made the availability of permits more restrictive.

I believe the future legalization across more states will happen, but it will never happen federally and will then, after many decades, will become an obsolete law.

[Just the facts]

I believe the future legalization across more states will happen, but it will never happen federally and will then, after many decades, will become an obsolete law.

...until we remember why it was made illegal in the first place.

[MadMonk]

...until we remember why it was made illegal in the first place.

The US paper industry wanted to quash competition from the hemp producers?

[bluedogok]

...and the pharmaceutical and alcohol industries don't any more competition. It was declared illegal through lobbying efforts and will remain illegal (at the federal level) through lobbying efforts. Just think of it like the Oklahoma liquor laws, they remain in place not because of legitimate ideas but by lobbyists to protect the current, entrenched businesses.

[soonerguru]

I wonder how many HiPos will now be setting up in the panhandle to catch motorist coming back into the state from colorado with their herbal supplements.

I've lived in Oklahoma for almost 13 years now and i've defended this place and highlighted some of the pros that most outside of the state have no knowledge of. But it's an absolute embarrassement, just how draconian some of the laws here are with regards to marijuana. Sadly, as the rest of the nation is finally starting to realize that Reefer Madness was the worst sort of propaganda that ignorance and fear mongering can produce, Oklahoma just last year passed laws about hash and paraphernalia that show our politicians are still drinking the "dangerous gateway drug" kool-aid.

Having had my home state over run with Yankees and their Yankee attitudes, ideas, and constant complaints about the way things are, i know that an outsiders view is usually one met with a simple and usually deserved, "If you don't like it then go back to where you came from". And i'm all for states rights and state pride in being different from the rest and not changing to please the masses that exist outside your borders. But with that said, cities will dry up and blow away if they dont move forward even if they do so taking baby steps. I'm not a proponent of big changes all at once that upset the masses but please the minority. But it's time to have the discussion at least about medicinal use and to do so with respect for the facts and honesty about why it is that some continue to hold tight to the myths of marijuana that have been proven to be just that.

Possible life sentence for hash, making brownies, using a grinder? Really? Is this 2012?


SECTION 1. AMENDATORY <63> O.S. 2001, Section <2-509>, is amended to read as follows: …

D. Knowingly violating the provisions of subsection B or subsection H of this section is hereby declared, as to the owner, or person in possession of such lands, to be a felony and punishable as such by a fine not to exceed Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) and imprisonment in the State Penitentiary custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than two (2) years nor more than life. The fine provided for in this subsection shall be in addition to other punishments provided by law and shall not be in lieu of other punishment. Any person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of subsection B or subsection H of this section is punishable by a term of imprisonment twice that otherwise authorized and by twice the fine otherwise authorized. Any sentence shall not be subject to statutory provisions for suspended sentences, deferred sentences, or probation, except when the conviction is for a first offense. …

H. Except as authorized by the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Act, it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture or attempt to manufacture any controlled dangerous substance by cooking, burning, or extracting and converting or attempting to extract and convert marihuana or marihuana oil into hashish, hashish oil or hashish powder.

These laws exist to keep feeding the drug enforcement mafia. This is regressive economic development. Take OBN for example, and their ridiculous posture against MJ. The drug war keeps a lot of people employed and keeps new toys and generous funding coming in to organizations such as OBN, as well as county sheriff departments, small-town police departments, etc.

This doesn't even take into account the unconstitutional (in my opinion) seizure of private assets by the aforementioned when drugs are involved.

We've created a constituency that is wholly dependent on its funding from draconian drug laws.