Another walmart????

[Plutonic Panda]

Come on. This sucks and I hope they don't build it. But, I can't help but think they probably will.

Edmond Residents Against Proposed Wal-Mart Store - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[jedicurt]

Property Tax Deathmatch: Walmart vs. Local Pub « Thoughts on the Urban Environment

once again Sid... thank you for a link that helps to prove what i have always said, but didn't have anything to back it up!

[Roger S]

Maybe I'm overlooking something but shouldn't sales tax generated equate into this? Shouldn't all the revenue generated be taken into consideration?

I'm pro mom & pop 110%. But just looking at property taxes seems kind of skewed to me.

[jedicurt]

you would think... but look at it this way. lets take some creative liberties and move both of these locations with the same property tax to say Norman.

the sales tax for the city of norman is just 3.5% of that 8.25% (the state is 4.5% and the rest is cleveland county)

lets assume that this Walmart generates $100 Million in revenue each year (i think a fair assumption)
so
100,000,000 X / .035 is 3.5 million. again, sounds like a lot. now lets add the property tax of 317,992 into that and we are at 3,817,992 and that is for the 13.7 acres of land that it takes up

so per acre that would be 3,817,992 / 13.7 = $278,685 per acre for the city

so lets compare that to the pub. now the pub only uses .35 acres

so lets find out how much the walmart produces for every .35 acres.

so that would be 278,685 X .35 = $97,539 per .35 acres

so to generate the the same tax for the city for the pub, we must first take out the property tax

97,539 - 28,744 = $68,795 that needs to be generated in city sales tax.

so 68,795 / .035 = $1,965,571. So the pub only needs to generate $2 million is revenue (not profits) to be slightly over what Walmart is paying in taxes to the city.

a successful bar, i think can easily generate 2 Million in sales in a year in sales, as that is just under $5500 a day in sales. and just replace the .035 with the (for norman) .0825 and figure your numbers there, and you will get similar numbers in the end.

granted this is all on the assumption of a walmart store in that area producing 100 Million in revenue... I'm not sure how realistic this number is...

EDIT: I hope all my math was right, otherwise i look like a total fool.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Edmond is such a silly place.

[Roger S]

Thanks for doing all the math Curt and I was indeed overlooking something.

[onthestrip]

$2mil a year in sales for a pub sounds kind of high to me.

[jedicurt]

$2mil a year in sales for a pub sounds kind of high to me.

why? that's just 275 people spending $20 a day.... and i rarely have less than a $20 tab at a pub, especially if i get food. that seems very reasonable to me. increase the average check to just $25 and now you only need 220 people. if you have 300 that spend $25 on a saturday, you don't need to be that busy the rest of the week. $2 million in sales is really not much at all.

[Plutonic Panda]

Property Tax Deathmatch: Walmart vs. Local Pub « Thoughts on the Urban Environment

Wow. Thanks for sharing and I never knew it was that much of a difference. :/

[Just the facts]

Sales tax is based on money spent. It doesn't matter if it is spent at Wal-Mart or in downtown Norman (using the example above). At best, you might could argue that Wal-Mart attracts shoppers from outside Norman, but who travels to someone elses Wal-Mart? If Norman had a thriving historic downtown you could eaily make the case that it attracts people from outside Norman.

[Plutonic Panda]

Sales tax is based on money spent. It doesn't matter if it is spent at Wal-Mart or in downtown Norman (using the example above). At best, you might could argue that Wal-Mart attracts shoppers from outside Norman, but who travels to someone elses Wal-Mart? If Norman had a thriving historic downtown you could eaily make the case that it attracts people from outside Norman.

Wouldn't Guthrie would be good example of that?

[OKCisOK4me]

This corner is eventually going to have something on it. Its been commercially zoned for years... Edmondites are stupid for thinking its not gonna happen on their corner lol

[boscorama]

Much as I'd love for the people to prevail, what the heck made them think there would not eventually be a Walmart there? And it's not just Wallyworld. With Lowe's just south, what will fill in the empty spaces between? Braums? Mazzios? PetCo? Old Navy?

Edmond, Edmond, Edmond, welcome to suburbia.

[RodH]

you would think... but look at it this way. lets take some creative liberties and move both of these locations with the same property tax to say Norman.

the sales tax for the city of norman is just 3.5% of that 8.25% (the state is 4.5% and the rest is cleveland county)

lets assume that this Walmart generates $100 Million in revenue each year (i think a fair assumption)
so
100,000,000 X / .035 is 3.5 million. again, sounds like a lot. now lets add the property tax of 317,992 into that and we are at 3,817,992 and that is for the 13.7 acres of land that it takes up

so per acre that would be 3,817,992 / 13.7 = $278,685 per acre for the city

so lets compare that to the pub. now the pub only uses .35 acres

so lets find out how much the walmart produces for every .35 acres.

so that would be 278,685 X .35 = $97,539 per .35 acres

so to generate the the same tax for the city for the pub, we must first take out the property tax

97,539 - 28,744 = $68,795 that needs to be generated in city sales tax.

so 68,795 / .035 = $1,965,571. So the pub only needs to generate $2 million is revenue (not profits) to be slightly over what Walmart is paying in taxes to the city.

a successful bar, i think can easily generate 2 Million in sales in a year in sales, as that is just under $5500 a day in sales. and just replace the .035 with the (for norman) .0825 and figure your numbers there, and you will get similar numbers in the end.

granted this is all on the assumption of a walmart store in that area producing 100 Million in revenue... I'm not sure how realistic this number is...

EDIT: I hope all my math was right, otherwise i look like a total fool.

What is not considered here is the number of people that a Wal-mart would employ compared to the pub.

[Plutonic Panda]

What is not considered here is the number of people that a Wal-mart would employ compared to the pub.

Where would you rather work.. Uptown Grocery or Walmart? Because for one I'm not 100% against a Walmart being built in North Edmond (I'm talking like more towards Waterloo and Broadway). There a neighborhood right by it that some might consider to be in the same league as Gaillardia and putting a Walmart right by it seems like something that isn't fitted with it's surroundings. But who knows, if it's a neighborhood market maybe they could find a way to mix it in with upscale retail. idk.

[RodH]

I am not trying to make a statement about where is a better place to work. I was just pointing out that in a comparison of the economic impact between a local pub and a Wal-mart that the number of jobs created also needs to be considered. A Wal-mart will employ 300 to 500 people. A local pub will probably employ a dozen or less. Even if the direct tax impact favors the pub the overall economic benefit to the community will favor the Wal-mar due to the payroll generated.

[mugofbeer]

I just wonder if it doesn't all boil down to the fact that the "upscale" residents around the area just don't want the 'riff" in the neighborhood that they think the Wal Mart will attract?

[Plutonic Panda]

I am not trying to make a statement about where is a better place to work. I was just pointing out that in a comparison of the economic impact between a local pub and a Wal-mart that the number of jobs created also needs to be considered. A Wal-mart will employ 300 to 500 people. A local pub will probably employ a dozen or less. Even if the direct tax impact favors the pub the overall economic benefit to the community will favor the Wal-mar due to the payroll generated.

I know what your saying. But, it seems like to me it just decreases the quality of life and they are minimum wage jobs. Personally I would rather have 10-15 local or "higher-end" businesses go in and pay their employes more than a Walmart giving out minimum wage to just about every employee there. But, I do understand what you are saying and I guess working at Walmart is a good job for young kids (I'm only 18 so throw me in that boat..haha) to gain some experience and money. But either way I would just rather prefer a shopping center similar to the one on 15th and Bryant. Then you could move the Walmart and build a super Walmart further northeast and build a Target and a shopping center like the one in Midwest city but much more dense along Covell and Kelly where that horse farm used to be.

[Soonerinfiniti]

I am consistently amused by people on OKCTalk.

This is America. If you want to open up a high-end pub that will generate so much tax revenue, please go ahead. You may hate Wal-Mart - don't shop there. They are the ones buying the land and taking the risk.

Everyone in Edmond thinks the only "acceptable" commercial is a Gap, Apple or Restoration Hardware store. News flash - ain't gonna happen, not in this economic environment.

Instead of whining, let's support local businesses! I do, and would be happy to help generate some sales tax revenue at your high-end pub! Paulaner Salvator, please!

[SoonerBoy18]

I believe Edmond residents are simply against this is because Wal Mart isnt exactly a "high end" super center when you have a city thats generally wealthy, If it was a Target, I believe they would have not been so against this idea. My opinion is just on the outside looking in lol.

[SoonerBoy18]

I just wonder if it doesn't all boil down to the fact that the "upscale" residents around the area just don't want the 'riff" in the neighborhood that they think the Wal Mart will attract?

Thats exactly what it boils down too. You see A LOT of people who do not care about their appearance shopping in Wal-Mart and Edmond residents simply don't want that.

[RadicalModerate]

You Can't Have Too Many Walmarts.
Resistance is Futile.
You Will Be Assimilated.
(unless you pretend they don't exist
and don't shop there)

yet honesty demands
that i admit that
the exceptional quality of
the "ciabatta rolls"
and the rotiscerre chicken
at the ["'neighborhood' 'market'"]
at Britton and Penn
is worth violating
all personal preferences
of financial support for
other horns of plenty.

Thread Title: "????????, walmart
[it's just anothercase of cost/value cognitive dissonance/logic-tight compartmental thinking. Well . . . Isn't it? =)]

[Plutonic Panda]

I believe Edmond residents are simply against this is because Wal Mart isnt exactly a "high end" super center when you have a city thats generally wealthy, If it was a Target, I believe they would have not been so against this idea. My opinion is just on the outside looking in lol.

I think it's that and the fact that they Don't want any more development out there and like I said before, there's a housing development right by it called Oak Tree which I believe has houses upwards of $2,000,000. They also said in the article that they don't want the traffic that comes with it. But, again, I'm neutral in this. I just think a better spot could've been chosen a little northeast.

[stlokc]

Good for OakTree. Good for North Edmond. Can we please have one small corner of our metro area that is not "big box at all costs, full- steam-ahead to the lowest common denominator.?" Look, I'm a capitalist, I'm not, in theory, against Wal-Mart. But I'm also for the rights of people to desire and demand a standard of development that they want for their community. I wouldn't want to live near a Wal-Mart if I could help it.

[progressiveboy]

I just wonder if it doesn't all boil down to the fact that the "upscale" residents around the area just don't want the 'riff" in the neighborhood that they think the Wal Mart will attract?

It could be, however, when upscale residents build upscale subdivisions and communities, I could see where they are just trying to protect their "investment". This may sound somewhat elitist, however, I would want to protect my most valuable asset being my home. Face it, NIMBYism is alive and well everywhere, not just Edmond.