General Urban Development

[Just the facts]

I had to go back and read 4 pages of material but I think I got it now. At the density DD is building at it makes Deep Deuce Urban Apartments seem like a waste of space. Funny how running out of space but still having demand create more density. At the suburban fringe we would just push everything out another mile creating the same number of housing units but at 100X the cost to taxpayers. This is a nice change.

[Soho]

I had to go back and read 4 pages of material but I think I got it now. At the density DD is building at it makes Deep Deuce Urban Apartments seem like a waste of space. Funny how running out of space but still having demand create more density. At the suburban fringe we would just push everything out another mile creating the same number of housing units but at 100X the cost to taxpayers. This is a nice change.

Funny you mention that, my wife and I were discussing the other day that with the apparent lack of maintenance on the DD apartments, they may not last another 10 years. Almost all the south and west facing windows are occluded and need replacement, exterior paint is in bad shape, exterior light fixtures are in disrepair and it would be great to get rid of the unsightly surface parking with multiple gates that don’t appear to work as designed. That said, they have been replacing some roofs recently.

And before someone calls me out… I did defend the parking lot for the Law Firm redoing the Baptist Church. I am willing to overlook one lot if it means saving an iconic structure. Huge difference in my opinion, when compared to the sprawling lots of DD. I didn’t at first understand what a tremendous difference in construction costs central parking adds to these projects! Having a bird’s eye view to watch the construction of Level, was quite an eye opener (bad pun intended). The scope, and I’m sure related costs, of building the parking lot was many times greater than I had imagined. Watching yard after yard of concrete being poured, day after day, the miles of rebar and cabling, concrete pumps that seem to defy the laws of physics, large labor force imported from Texas…

It is a common theme on this site that living space is overpriced in DD, just imagine the excavation and removal costs that the Lofts and Maywood Park Apartments suffered to provide parking! Level and Aloft are out the same construction costs, but didn’t have to excavate. Thank goodness the cost of land has risen to the point that another urban style complex like DD apts will never be built in this area again.

[UnFrSaKn]

Anyone else out there think that apartments downtown should not be so bland, boring and suburban? Downtown should look and feel like the capital city of our state. I'm looking at some apartments on this New York Architecture website. This is more like the kind of place I would enjoy living.

New York Architecture Images-

[Teo9969]

Anyone else out there think that apartments downtown should not be so bland, boring and suburban? Downtown should look and feel like the capital city of our state. I'm looking at some apartments on this New York Architecture website. This is more like the kind of place I would enjoy living.

New York Architecture Images-

Apple to Oranges...what's NYC's new construction look like?

[OKCisOK4me]

Sorry, but when I think of big city living, I think of buildings that look like the one Neo is all jumping around and through in the first Matrix. I don't know why ya'll be going for extravaganza mania...

[betts]

Anyone else out there think that apartments downtown should not be so bland, boring and suburban? Downtown should look and feel like the capital city of our state. I'm looking at some apartments on this New York Architecture website. This is more like the kind of place I would enjoy living.

New York Architecture Images-

Those look expensive to build. The only way we get construction like that is if downtown living becomes so desirable that the wealthy want to live downtown, I fear.

[Rover]

Those look expensive to build. The only way we get construction like that is if downtown living becomes so desirable that the wealthy want to live downtown, I fear.

The last condo project I worked on in NYC was 8 stories in Chelsea. The cheapest unit was $1.5 million and top floor almost $4 million. It's was sold out months before completion....in the recession.

[betts]

The last condo project I worked on in NYC was 8 stories in Chelsea. The cheapest unit was $1.5 million and top floor almost $4 million. It's was sold out months before completion....in the recession.

And in Manhattan, the wealthy want to live downtown. When that happens here, we will get more quality construction downtown, with more of the architectural features UnFrSaKn is talking about. I'm pretty happy with my brownstone though.

[OKCisOK4me]

How about we have mixed quality...OKC is not high society...

[betts]

How about we have mixed quality...OKC is not high society...

I think that's what UnFrSkN was hoping for. Right now we mostly have quality on the lower end of the spectrum in downtown housing. It doesn't hurt to have some high end stuff. Again, I'm pretty happy with my brownstone, but there's certainly nothing in the apartment or rental categories that fits that description.

[Just the facts]

Anyone else out there think that apartments downtown should not be so bland, boring and suburban? Downtown should look and feel like the capital city of our state. I'm looking at some apartments on this New York Architecture website. This is more like the kind of place I would enjoy living.

New York Architecture Images-

We had buildings like that but we tore most of them down. However, the ones we do have left are being converted to housing - and they don't cost near what New Yorkers are paying.

[Rover]

How about we have mixed quality...OKC is not high society...

The high costs in NYC aren't "high society". It is simply supply and demand. Location drives up the prices considerably. One of the prices to pay for high density living (not counting the slums/projects) is generally higher prices for real estate in those areas. What some consider to be "high society" here is normal and commonplace in many other places. We are blessed with low cost of living for many years, but also low average incomes.

[adaniel]

How about we have mixed quality...OKC is not high society...

The problem with this logic is people who want to live downtown likely work downtown or in the OUHSC. These areas are home to 2 of the biggest concentration of high paying jobs in the state. It's not a big deal for a DINK couple working at Presbyterian making $100K or a young professional at Devon pulling $70K to plop down $1,500/month for rent or 250K+ for a condo. Provided, of course, its a quality home.

There is no shortage of affordable housing just on the outskirts of downtown.

[OKCisOK4me]

The problem with this logic is people who want to live downtown likely work downtown or in the OUHSC. These areas are home to 2 of the biggest concentration of high paying jobs in the state. It's not a big deal for a DINK couple working at Presbyterian making $100K or a young professional at Devon pulling $70K to plop down $1,500/month for rent or 250K+ for a condo. Provided, of course, its a quality home.

There is no shortage of affordable housing just on the outskirts of downtown.

Thank you for summarizing what I already know. Now how about affordable housing downtown that is available for people that want to live downtown that don't work downtown? Sorry I didn't clarify the first time around.

[betts]

Thank you for summarizing what I already know. Now how about affordable housing downtown that is available for people that want to live downtown that don't work downtown? Sorry I didn't clarify the first time around.

It seems to me that there is already pretty affordable housing downtown for renters. Affordable for sale housing will be available downtown when it is profitable for a developer to create it. In most cities that's not happening.

[OKCisOK4me]

No...the reason it will never happen is class issues. You very well couldnt be neighbors with someone that only pulls in $30,000.

[Rover]

No...the reason it will never happen is class issues. You very well couldnt be neighbors with someone that only pulls in $30,000.

So, you want to be in a prime desirable location but not pay for it? And this is somehow a class issue? Is it that people are entitled to the best without paying for it?

This isn't a class issue. The issue is that as these areas are more and more desirable the prices will increase with the demand. It is purely economics, not social discrimination. If you want true urban density then you must be willing to pay for it. If you want cheap then dense urban is not what you want. In places like NYC multiple individuals share small apartments to be close in...OR they commute from one of the less desirable areas like Brooklyn, Queens, etc. It has been easy for some on here to take shots at Okies for not walking...well we can take a shot at Okies for just not wanting to do what others do in other cities when they want the better locations and properties. Go find a roommate and pay the rates or don't complain when someone else does. Building cheap, cheap housing that will become dilapidated in 20 years isn't the answer.

There will always be financial inequality and those that have money will always be able to out-bid those without. That is far different than social discrimination.

[UnFrSaKn]

My whole point was that I think downtown should look and feel different than anywhere else. I want to see something above the norm when I'm downtown. It will likely cost more if that ever happens. I myself couldn't afford to live in the most expensive apartments. I'm just saying from someone who walks down the street and sees it, I want downtown to be the classiest destination and be able to experience things without having to drive to Dallas or Tulsa.

[OKCisOK4me]

So, you want to be in a prime desirable location but not pay for it? And this is somehow a class issue? Is it that people are entitled to the best without paying for it?

This isn't a class issue. The issue is that as these areas are more and more desirable the prices will increase with the demand. It is purely economics, not social discrimination. If you want true urban density then you must be willing to pay for it. If you want cheap then dense urban is not what you want. In places like NYC multiple individuals share small apartments to be close in...OR they commute from one of the less desirable areas like Brooklyn, Queens, etc. It has been easy for some on here to take shots at Okies for not walking...well we can take a shot at Okies for just not wanting to do what others do in other cities when they want the better locations and properties. Go find a roommate and pay the rates or don't complain when someone else does. Building cheap, cheap housing that will become dilapidated in 20 years isn't the answer.

There will always be financial inequality and those that have money will always be able to out-bid those without. That is far different than social discrimination.

How is what I typed complaining???! Screw you Rover, it's called an observation.

Obviously it's called get into a relationship where more than one person is in the partnership...be it a friend or a lover OR go out there and make more money. I'm not a tard ya donkey. And as far as economics goes, I seem to remember that when more is being produced and the demand is higher prices go down. I don't recall HDTVs becoming more expensive since the technology has become more and more available.

I choose my life and my life is my concern.

[Spartan]

Ugh...

[OKCisOK4me]

Ugh...

lol, Spartan.

Don't get me wrong, I love my $500 rent. Does it lead to the most desirable area? No, of course not. If I could live without a car and without the costs that come along with it, then I could make that adjustment and move closer to downtown. Problem is, downtown doesn't have a lot of variety jobs. You either gotta work in oil, biotech, or medical. Not all of us have degrees. Not all of us choose to go that direction in life. So I guess we're banned from downtown living unless we win the lottery, lol. Oh well, I'll still roll through yo hood in my car and take pics of your neighborhoods :-)

[Just the facts]

Not everyone working in Devon's tower has a college degree. In fact, I'll bet a significant number of downtown employees don't. If you go on some of the company websites you might be surprised what is available.

[OKCisOK4me]

You're right. You probably don't have to have a degree to wheel a janitorial cart around. But those non degree positions probably can't afford to live downtown. I bet they drive from at least 4 miles away.

[Just the facts]

You're right. You probably don't have to have a degree to wheel a janitorial cart around. But those non degree positions probably can't afford to live downtown. I bet they drive from at least 4 miles away.

Like I said, you would be surprised. Devon has an opening for a Security Officer right now and it only requires a high school diploma. I think it would pay $30,000 or more. I'm not sure you could get someone to take a bullet for less than that.

And do you think a college degree is managing the janitor push cart guy?

[Rover]

How is what I typed complaining???! Screw you Rover, it's called an observation.

Obviously it's called get into a relationship where more than one person is in the partnership...be it a friend or a lover OR go out there and make more money. I'm not a tard ya donkey. And as far as economics goes, I seem to remember that when more is being produced and the demand is higher prices go down. I don't recall HDTVs becoming more expensive since the technology has become more and more available.

I choose my life and my life is my concern.

Just don't play the class discrimination card..

And you can't compare tv sets to real estate. That's nonsensical.