Talked to a Trader Joe's manager in Ft Worth Friday while there

[Dekoung]

about putting in a store in OKC metro area. She said doubtful since OK law prevents wine sales in grocery. I told her about WF being successful in OKC/Tulsa without wine sales. She encouraged those in the OKC metro area to contact TJ's with a request and tell of the WF success. She said that is how TJ's came to TX albeit TX has grocery wine sales. She was intrigued by the WF success without wine sales. I don't do Facebook or Twitter but thought i would pass this on and maybe those of you who are on social media could contact TJ's- Trader Joe's

I am going to do this. I live in Norman but would love to see TJ's amywhere in metro area. TJ's wipes out WF on some items as far as price and quality.

[MonkeesFan]

about putting in a store in OKC metro area. She said doubtful since OK law prevents wine sales in grocery. I told her about WF being successful in OKC/Tulsa without wine sales. She encouraged those in the OKC metro area to contact TJ's with a request and tell of the WF success. She said that is how TJ's came to TX albeit TX has grocery wine sales. She was intrigued by the WF success without wine sales. I don't do Facebook or Twitter but thought i would pass this on and maybe those of you who are on social media could contact TJ's- Trader Joe's

I am going to do this. I live in Norman but would love to see TJ's amywhere in metro area. TJ's wipes out WF on some items as far as price and quality.

How about no? You want wine, go to a wine store

[Steve]

The Fort Worth manager is ill informed; Trader Joe's has informed locals that they are looking to expand into Oklahoma City.

[bluedogok]

There are plenty of WF stores without wine in states that don't allow it. Colorado laws are much closer to Oklahoma than Texas and some states (like Massachusetts) still have the package store laws for pretty much everything with alcohol.

[metro]

Emailed them. Also folks when you email companies, don't say OKC but spell it out, most people outside of OKC don't know our abbreviation.

[onthestrip]

Managers are probably some of the last people to know where new stores are opening up.

[bchris02]

There are plenty of WF stores without wine in states that don't allow it. Colorado laws are much closer to Oklahoma than Texas and some states (like Massachusetts) still have the package store laws for pretty much everything with alcohol.

Agreed. The craziest liquor law in OK is really the fact that liquor stores can only sell beer warm. If there was one thing I could change about the liquor laws that would be it. Everything else isn't much different than quite a few other states.

[Username]

There are plenty of WF stores without wine in states that don't allow it. Colorado laws are much closer to Oklahoma than Texas and some states (like Massachusetts) still have the package store laws for pretty much everything with alcohol.

This. WF's manages pretty robust sales in Manhattan without wine. And come to think of it, Trader Joe's themselves that I know of in Forest Hills and in the East Village both are without wine sections.

[metro]

Agreed. The craziest liquor law in OK is really the fact that liquor stores can only sell beer warm. If there was one thing I could change about the liquor laws that would be it. Everything else isn't much different than quite a few other states.

Yet grocery stores sell it cold, go figure.

[RadicalModerate]

But the beer in grocery stores isn't "real beer" (it's the "non-intoxicating beverage" version of beer). Yeah. Right. Beer is supposed to be refrigerated to help keep its expiration date accurate. I'm surprised nobody has challenged the "warm beer" requirement on the grounds of protecting public health and safety. On the other hand, liquor stores probably don't want to have to spend the extra money on purchasing coolers. But this thread is about Trader Joes. Frankly, I'm surprised that ANY big grocery store "relies" so heavily on wine sales for their success. Don't get me wrong: I think Oklahoma's liquor laws are the stupidest thing about this state and should be changed. I just don't see why this would be such a big factor in relation to where to locate stores.

[bille]

No thanks. Would rather just do away with the law and be like the rest of the world on this one.

Agreed! It's being worked on but it's going to take a significant amount of educating and undoing a lot of false information passed on for years and years.

But the beer in grocery stores isn't "real beer" (it's the "non-intoxicating beverage" version of beer). Yeah. Right. Beer is supposed to be refrigerated to help keep its expiration date accurate. I'm surprised nobody has challenged the "warm beer" requirement on the grounds of protecting public health and safety. On the other hand, liquor stores probably don't want to have to spend the extra money on purchasing coolers. But this thread is about Trader Joes. Frankly, I'm surprised that ANY big grocery store "relies" so heavily on wine sales for their success. Don't get me wrong: I think Oklahoma's liquor laws are the stupidest thing about this state and should be changed. I just don't see why this would be such a big factor in relation to where to locate stores.

Refrigeration isn't so much to keep an expiration date; many breweries won't even include one. In fact that's kind of a hard subject to explain to most people and if a brewery put "Well, it depends" in place of an expiration date they'd really have a lot of questions to field. Most will put a package date and will leave it to those interested enough in digging deeper to learn about it and do the math. To explain the refrigeration better would be to explain how warmer temperatures prematurely age beer, wine, etc. at a rate of 2 times as fast for every 10°C (18°F). Granted there are wines, spirits, and beer better suited to be aged but for a good portion of beer it is better for it if it is kept cold. Explaining this side of the equation and getting past those arguing that 'we' just want it cold so it can be drank immediately is going to be tough.

As the alcohol being a big factor on them coming here, I don't think they rely on alcohol sales quite as much as some think but it'd be silly to think that those companies don't make a significant profit off of alcohol sales in the regions they do offer it. Also I'm sure having certain brands on sale, in stock, etc. helps pull traffic their way from competitors. I wouldn't say it's a deal-breaker coming into an area but I'm sure it's a big part of the equation.

[RadicalModerate]

I grew up (started getting older, anyways =) down the road from what used to be the Joseph Coors brewery in Golden, Colorado and toured the plant once, just after I turned 18. It was a great experience (you could legally purchase 3.2 beer, at the age of 18 back then). And you got a free beer at the end of the visit (Coors only produced 3.2 beer no matter what anyone says).

While the "Clear, Rocky Mountain Spring Water" touted on the can was mocked by the open sewer flowing next to the plant out of "Clear Creek Canyon" the wonderful aroma, reminiscent of baking bread, of the barley "malting" under the heat lamps made it very clear that beer is a food product and should be treated as such. Even it is only served at "Banquets" as the nonsense on the can indicates is the proper setting for this (lame, really) product of the brewer's art. =).

Many, many decades later, my wife and I toured a relatively small brewery up in St. Paul that produces the--in my opinion, excellent--Summit products. The tour guide there (at the plant next to the "Muddy Mississippi River") made it very clear that their (lovingly crafted) product should be kept under refrigeration. While I personally prefer dark beer, only slightly chilled, just above room temperature, that has nothing to do with the transportation and storage of the product in terms of maximum--safe and healthy--enjoyment.

I'd love to see the transcripts of the State House debates back in the day when they drafted the legislation regarding 3.2 refrigerate OK/other beer NO. One might be able to figure out whose cash flow was being enhanced and whose was being "diverted." =)

[bille]

I'd love to see the transcripts of the State House debates back in the day when they drafted the legislation regarding 3.2 refrigerate OK/other beer NO. One might be able to figure out whose cash flow was being enhanced and whose was being "diverted." =)

Oh the ever complicated alcohol laws in OK... You have to go back to prohibition to even start to understand them and I'll keep this as short as possible so as not to derail this thread any further however, I always feel compelled to spread some alcohol related knowledge when given the opportunity!

So OK entered the union as a 'sober' state in 1907 but prohibition in OK actually proceeds that (do to it being Indian Territory). Prohibition was repealed in '33, first by the Cullen-Harrison Act that allowed for sale of 'non-intoxicating liquor' which was (and still is) defined as any alcohol containing 3.2%ABW (4%ABV) or less. Full prohibition to allow intoxicating beverages wasn't lifted until the 21st amendment later in the year. That said, with the repeal of the 18th amendment states were free to set their own laws regarding alcohol. OK chose to leave things as they were, not acting on the 21st amendment and keeping it '3.2 only'. Things stayed that way until 1959 before OK repealed prohibition... not the last state to do so, but second to last! Anyway, the repeal passed largely in part (from my understanding anyway) by those previously against it agreeing to it for the gains in the economy promised by allowing the sell of alcohol. I haven't found any documentation yet but my guess is since so many were opposed to it the only way they could get it repealed was to put certain restrictions on it (refrigeration for one). Apparently 'high-point' beer was lumped in with all the other alcohol due to how 'non-intoxicating' alcohol was defined several years prior.

[bluedogok]

Trader Joe's got their one and only liquor license in the state of Colorado approved. The first Denver store he only one in the state with wine and high point beer (maybe liquor as well), the other stores can only have low point beer like Oklahoma.

Denver Business Journal - Denver Trader Joe's gets OK for liquor

[OKCisOK4me]

and now you can drink your wine and smoke your bud in Colorado too!

[bille]

Yep, time to move to Colorado!