Wheeler Park

[shawnw]

[category=]Oklahoma River[/category]
[category=]Recreation[/category]
Park at S Western and I-40, south of I-40, north of the river.

[shawnw]

Couldn't find a thread dedicated to Wheeler Park, so created this one.

I was at Wheeler today and I noticed at the softball field nearest to Western, they had torn down the wooden bleachers, and had laid down concrete where there was dirt before (the old wooden bleachers were on dirt). This is the field that Classen SAS has been using for their home games (my daughter is on the team), so I don't know if that has anything to with it or not, just thought it was interesting that they are doing work here.

[CaptDave]

I hope this park becomes part of the downtown park "network". It would serve as a great playground for kids whose parents take the leap and build or purchase a home in C2S.

[shawnw]

Agree!

[Just the facts]

The urban core is going to have too much park space. Just like OKCs downtown streets have the capacity to handle Chicago traffic; our park space will be enough for 100,000 downtown residents. Downtown doesn't need this much park space. Once Promenade Park is finished Wheeler Park is going to be (and rightfully should be) converted to residential landuse. I would prefer they not spend another dime on something that is going away. Spend the money on the future. Downtown park space should be sized to the number of people who can use it. Building more park capacity then can be used is the equivalent of building more road capacity than can be used.

The only way downtown is going to be sustainable is if it has proper time-diversity. As the business community leaves the downtown area residents and downtown visitors should fill in the void after 5PM and on weekends. This will ensure that businesses adjacent to the park will have a steady stream of customers from 9AM to 9PM 6 to 7 days a week. If one park only serves day time users and a different park serves evening and week residents businesses will not be able to establish themselves (one of the reason MBG has yet to attract a restaurant).

[shawnw]

Technically Wheeler isn't downtown. Downtown's official boundaries on the South is the river and on the West is Classen. While technically Classen doesn't go to the river, if it did it would cut through Wheeler, on its current trajectory if it were to continue, Classen would cut through the less essential parts of park.

Wheeler is actually very active after 5p and on weekends, at least in the warm months, though I will say there is way too much parking.

[Fantastic]

Technically Wheeler isn't downtown. Downtown's official boundaries on the South is the river and on the West is Classen. While technically Classen doesn't go to the river, if it did it would cut through Wheeler, on its current trajectory if it were to continue, Classen would cut through the less essential parts of park.

Wheeler is actually very active after 5p and on weekends, at least in the warm months, though I will say there is way too much parking.

According to the Neighborhood Alliance of Central Oklahoma Downtown's boundaries are Western to the west, US 270 (I-40) to the south... either way you are correct. It is not TECHNICALLY located Downtown, but as our definition of what exactly "downtown" is continues to evolve, I believe that the Farmer's Market, Wheeler Park, Riverside and Hubcap Alley will all be the "Next Big Things." I have talked less about Riverside and Wheeler Park then I have Hubcap Alley and the Farmer's Market, but I see a huge ammount of potential in all these areas.

That being said, Wheeler Park has a massive amount of potential for redevelopment. It is already sports oriented, whereas Wiley Post is more playground oriented, and the MAPS 3 park will be more of a "hey that's cool let's go look at it" kind of thing. So I could see the sports aspect of Wheeler keeping it around as a park for the foreseeable future. HOWEVER... that is also ALOT of land that could be redeveloped into residental.

One important thing to note: Wheeler Park was the original location of the Oklahoma City Zoo (formerly known as the Wheeler Park Zoo) when it was founded in 1902. I don't know why I said that, I just think it's kinda cool.

[shawnw]

The city council redefined the boundaries a couple years ago I believe. I'll need to find a source and post it. Pretty sure there was a newsok article about it.

I've stated in other threads that I would like to see Wheeler at least partially preserved for it's historical importance as our first zoo (there should be public art, and maybe a plaza of sorts dedicated to this; at the very least a historical marker)

According to the Neighborhood Alliance of Central Oklahoma Downtown's boundaries are Western to the west, US 270 (I-40) to the south... either way you are correct. It is not TECHNICALLY located Downtown, but as our definition of what exactly "downtown" is continues to evolve, I believe that the Farmer's Market, Wheeler Park, Riverside and Hubcap Alley will all be the "Next Big Things." I have talked less about Riverside and Wheeler Park then I have Hubcap Alley and the Farmer's Market, but I see a huge ammount of potential in all these areas.

That being said, Wheeler Park has a massive amount of potential for redevelopment. It is already sports oriented, whereas Wiley Post is more playground oriented, and the MAPS 3 park will be more of a "hey that's cool let's go look at it" kind of thing. So I could see the sports aspect of Wheeler keeping it around as a park for the foreseeable future. HOWEVER... that is also ALOT of land that could be redeveloped into residental.

One important thing to note: Wheeler Park was the original location of the Oklahoma City Zoo (formerly known as the Wheeler Park Zoo) when it was founded in 1902. I don't know why I said that, I just think it's kinda cool.

[jedicurt]

One important thing to note: Wheeler Park was the original location of the Oklahoma City Zoo (formerly known as the Wheeler Park Zoo) when it was founded in 1902. I don't know why I said that, I just think it's kinda cool.

speaking of the zoo... with the dilapidated state of the Aquarium at the zoo, i've always hoped that they would build an Aquarium at Wheeler park (and also pay homage to the original zoo). This would give downtown another attraction to get people down there (especially on weekends). and give the zoo the ability to find a different use for the area where the current aquarium is.

i don't see this happening... but it is what i have hoped would happen for about 10 years now.

[BrettM2]

speaking of the zoo... with the dilapidated state of the Aquarium at the zoo, i've always hoped that they would build an Aquarium at Wheeler park (and also pay homage to the original zoo). This would give downtown another attraction to get people down there (especially on weekends). and give the zoo the ability to find a different use for the area where the current aquarium is.

i don't see this happening... but it is what i have hoped would happen for about 10 years now.

That would be a great addition, but I worry that it wouldn't be any better than the one in Jenks. I always felt that was overrated.

The Zoo's master plan shows a planned remodel of the aquarium starting in 2019, IIRC. If they continue their string of success with their other remodels, I have no doubt it will be great.

[CaptDave]

speaking of the zoo... with the dilapidated state of the Aquarium at the zoo, i've always hoped that they would build an Aquarium at Wheeler park (and also pay homage to the original zoo). This would give downtown another attraction to get people down there (especially on weekends). and give the zoo the ability to find a different use for the area where the current aquarium is.

i don't see this happening... but it is what i have hoped would happen for about 10 years now.

That's a pretty darn good idea. If they would build on as nice as the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga it would do well. That one is primarily focused on fresh water eco-systems and an OKC Aquarium could be a liquid version of the Oklahom Trails section of the OKC Zoo. It would be a western anchor to the river developments and actually give people a reason to ride the river boats.

[Fantastic]

speaking of the zoo... with the dilapidated state of the Aquarium at the zoo, i've always hoped that they would build an Aquarium at Wheeler park (and also pay homage to the original zoo). This would give downtown another attraction to get people down there (especially on weekends). and give the zoo the ability to find a different use for the area where the current aquarium is.

i don't see this happening... but it is what i have hoped would happen for about 10 years now.

I couldn't agree more, and even with the remodel of the Zoo's Aquarium this could work. I like the "Aquatic Oklahoma Trails" idea, but thought maybe just a portion of an aquarium, with the rest being cool and unusual things we don't see normally. Would love to have a shark tank to rival the one in Jenks, but also a Jellyfish Tunnel. Don't think I've ever seen a Jellyfish Tunnel. It would be not only awsome, but unique and breathtaking.

An aquarium would also promote quality redevelopment of the south portion of Riverside, and link the Farmer's Market with the eventual redevelopment of Downtown Airpark. And with the MAPS3 Park's enevitable connection to Wiley Post Park, this would push alot of positive development to the south and west. I could see and aquarium as an anchor and jump start for development not only in C2S but also as far west as Stockyards City, and as far south as Capitol Hill, and with the impending redevelopmet of Hubcap Alley and possibly the Pull-A-Part site to the east, we could see some amazing developments as far south as Grand within 30 or so years (let's be honest, it would probably take that long) all anchored by a simple aquarium.

Sadly this is all just a dream.

[CaptDave]

But we SHOULD dream big for our city. If not for big dreams, we wouldn't have the Thunder here now, Devon Tower might be in Houston, and the river would still be a ditch. Not all big dreams can become reality, but they often are the reason other good things do come to pass.

[jedicurt]

Friends for a Better Aquarium????

[Fantastic]

friends for a better aquarium????

boom!

[Fantastic]

Friends for a Better Aquarium????

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not... but.............

In all seriousness, I've been thinking about this for a long time... Not specifically "Friends for a Better Aquarium," but at what point will we have a grassroots organization called "Friends for a Better OKC?" For real. It could be an honest to God real life organization with sub-groups for idividual projects such as Friends for a Better Boulevard, Friends for a Better Convention Center, (and now) Friends for a Better Aquarium. We've seen the attention that these kinds of groups can generate.

Now, with that said, IF my dream of an FBOKC were to be a reality (which I doubt), a group like this would have to be very careful to not cheapen its message. I envision a group with a board of (for lack of better terms) directors, comprised of passionate individuals willing to dedicate their time and effort. Anyone could submit their ideas to this board for review and the board would then make a determination as to what should be done with it. Perhaps a 4 level sponsorship system where the importance of the project could be analized and put into specific categories. Like a Partnership category where the FBOKC works actively with the sub group to get the message out there, an Acitve Sponsor category where the FBOKC takes on the overall operation of the sub group, a Sponsor categorgy where the FBOKC basically says "Yes, we believe you have a wonerful idea and you have our blessing to continue lobbying for your better _____," and of coarse a Non-sponsor category: "Great that you believe in _______, keep up the good work, your on your own."

Ok, so I'm WAY off topic here... sorry about that, I've just thought alot about this, and while I don't think anything like this would ever happen, I do think it would be pretty cool... I haven't bloged in a while, maybe I will blog about this idea tonight, if my wife lets me... (sweety, I know you are a lurker, so you are seeing this... please let me blog tonight... p.s. I love you... p.s.s. don't kill me)

[RickOKC]

I really appreciate, and agree with, the overall conclusion of this thread so far. I understand Just the Fact's point, that it's possible for an urban environment to have too much park space (although our current lack makes it hard to fathom that being the case here). However, if too much park space is to be a future problem, I definitely don't see residential re-development as the only conceivable solution. Why take publicly-owned land, in what is destined to be a prime location, and just surrender it to private residential development when there is huge potential for this space for public purposes? Hence, the brilliance of an aquarium (which is, to me, truly a stroke of brilliance; it would provide a great, flanking anchor of interest on the southwest side of downtown as the boathouse distict currently provides such on the southeast side of downtown). After all, it's not like we don't have plenty of residential holes to fill in downtown itself before re-purposing Wheeler Park would prove a necessity! I personally think that the space as currently used is very beneficial. Let it be the downtown sports complex hub, while the other parks have the freedom to carry other identities and purposes. And if a glut of downtown park space eventually proves to be a problem, fill the space with public development that creates new interest and identity for the park.

[jedicurt]

when i first typed the "Friends for a Better Aquarium" yes, i was being sarcastic.... but after i posted it, i couldn't stop thinking about it all day long. This has seriously been something that i have hoped for, since probably 1999 or 2000... when i started to get depressed every time i walked through the Aquarium at the Zoo and thought that it's biggest problem is the zoo's biggest problem now, amount of land available for redevelopment. And seeing the responses from both Fantastic, RickOKC and Sid, really helped me realize that i wasn't being crazy with my thought of this being something we should really try and see if it could be done.

As for the Friends for a Better OKC, i'm all for that idea.

[jedicurt]

in the mean time... a Friends for a better Aquarium page is now officially on Facebook.

[jedicurt]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/377805425628138/

[jedicurt]

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not... but.............

In all seriousness, I've been thinking about this for a long time... Not specifically "Friends for a Better Aquarium," but at what point will we have a grassroots organization called "Friends for a Better OKC?" For real. It could be an honest to God real life organization with sub-groups for idividual projects such as Friends for a Better Boulevard, Friends for a Better Convention Center, (and now) Friends for a Better Aquarium. We've seen the attention that these kinds of groups can generate.

Now, with that said, IF my dream of an FBOKC were to be a reality (which I doubt), a group like this would have to be very careful to not cheapen its message. I envision a group with a board of (for lack of better terms) directors, comprised of passionate individuals willing to dedicate their time and effort. Anyone could submit their ideas to this board for review and the board would then make a determination as to what should be done with it. Perhaps a 4 level sponsorship system where the importance of the project could be analized and put into specific categories. Like a Partnership category where the FBOKC works actively with the sub group to get the message out there, an Acitve Sponsor category where the FBOKC takes on the overall operation of the sub group, a Sponsor categorgy where the FBOKC basically says "Yes, we believe you have a wonerful idea and you have our blessing to continue lobbying for your better _____," and of coarse a Non-sponsor category: "Great that you believe in _______, keep up the good work, your on your own."

Ok, so I'm WAY off topic here... sorry about that, I've just thought alot about this, and while I don't think anything like this would ever happen, I do think it would be pretty cool... I haven't bloged in a while, maybe I will blog about this idea tonight, if my wife lets me... (sweety, I know you are a lurker, so you are seeing this... please let me blog tonight... p.s. I love you... p.s.s. don't kill me)

I think this should be it's own thread on okctalk... i like this idea a lot

[Fantastic]

I think this should be it's own thread on okctalk... i like this idea a lot

Ask and ye shall recieve:

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...tml#post585725

yeah, I pretty much just copied what I previously said... look for a blog post about this tonight or tomoorrow... I'll post a link

[RickOKC]

Now that the brainstorming for an organization has been assigned its own thread, I would be curious to hear the opinion of others regarding Wheeler Park and its best usage/identity. I appreciate how the perspectives of contributors here shape my thinking on issues such as these, and I'm not sure I'm seeing the full picture here. So, while I appreciate the comments posted so far, I would be curious to hear the perspective of some OKCTalk veterans/administrators, as well as our resident urbanization experts. What part should Wheeler Park play in the future of the downtown fabric?

[Just the facts]

What part should Wheeler Park play in the future of the downtown fabric?

None, the functions of Wheeler Park are being shifted to Promenade Park. If there is a desire to keep Wheeler then Promenade should be scrapped. OKC doesn't need near the park space that is being planned if the existing park space is also kept.

[jedicurt]

None, the functions of Wheeler Park are being shifted to Promenade Park. If there is a desire to keep Wheeler then Promenade should be scrapped. OKC doesn't need near the park space that is being planned if the existing park space is also kept.

which is why i think putting something on the land that would act as a location for tourists to visit, then it would be a good re-use of this land and hopefully encourage and stimulate development around it. A large Aquarium sitting right off the walking trail along the river, i think would be a beautiful thing that would attract tourism. I'm not sure what you do with the rest of the park ( i would like for part of the Aquarium, if it is a project of the OKC Zoo, to also include something to recognize the history of this area as being the original zoo location... something similar to what is in the tiny Zoosuem building they have now at the zoo). perhaps that idea of turing it residential or something would be a good idea. that part i'm not sure about