Bricktown Casino

[Patrick]

Bass Pro is a result of typical Oklahoma City planning. City leaders simply saw the benefits the store would bring (more people, traffic, more retail, etc.) and didn't really look at the overall impact the store would have on the area itself. Also, I think city leaders were beginning to get desparate. It had been several years since the canal had opened, and Hogan wasn't having much luck attracting venues to Lower Bricktown. They saw Bass Pro as the spark to get development moving.

This is where I think Oklahoma City and Tulsa are different. Oklahoma Citians want to see development, whatever the impact. Tulsans look at the impact to such an extreme that development is impeded for years and years. There has to be a happy medium.

[BDP]

There has to be a happy medium.

No doubt. A happy medium somewhere in-between financing something that doesn't fit and forbidding something that might fit.

[Patrick]

Here's downtownguy's take:

"In the Newspaper

...............Also in today's paper, a front page story shows that local leaders hate the idea of a Bricktown casino and are willing to play hardball to keep it out. So far, Jim Inhoffe and Tom Coburn, responsible for this possibility because of some "inadvertant language" in a congressional funding bill, have yet to speak, but their spokesmen say they're awfully sorry and will try to fix it.
No word yet on how much, if anything, the tribe in question donated to either man's campaign."

[BricktownGuy]

Oklahoma City (AP) - An amendment to the federal transportation bill could block the Shawnee Tribe from building a casino in or near downtown Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma Senators Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn attached the amendment to the transportation bill, which was passed by the House and the Senate. It's now awaiting action from President Bush (website</B> - news</B> - bio</B>) .

The amendment deletes language from a 2000 bill that would have required the Secretary of the Interior to place land into federal trust for the Shawnee Tribe.

The tribe had expressed interest in claiming the land to build a casino in downtown Oklahoma City or in the Bricktown entertainment district.

The tribe now says it's hoping to find another location in Oklahoma City.


Looks as though they really want to come, since that is the case, they will probably do anything to put a casino in OKC someplace.

[Flatlander]

I know this is a late reply but just came on board here.I heard a family from Las Vegas bought the land on the SE corner of I-44&I-40 ,also the land between SW 15th and the Oklahoma river from May Ave to I-44 where there are currently houses is Indian land.Put two & two together=Casino,just a guess I could be wrong.Theres already a smoke shop in the neigborhood,but now we have Dell across the highway.Something will be built on this highly visible corner.Its about 4 miles from Bricktown but would fit perfect on the river,if you stayed on Meridian you could take a boat ride to the casino and then spend all your winnings on Bricktown entertainment,hey its an idea,probably more of a dream.Maybe the former mayor and son have a similar idea with the land they purchased.I know nothing.

[Flatlander]

I think putting a casino at I-44&I-40 SE corner would be a great location it would be highly visible and easily accessable by highway and the new water taxis going between Meridian and Bricktown,its near the historic stockyards and I dont see the people around that area protesting.

[Midtowner]

In my opinion, the best thing for the state to do would be to open its own casino near Bricktown -- a first class facility in every regard with the clear intention of making it difficult for any tribal casino to be competitive.

Such a facility would not only draw many warm bodies which would not otherwise be coming to the area, it might draw conferences, or other tourists which would positively impact the state's bottom line.

State owned casinos would be an extremely profitable and extremely business friendly way for the state to raise money without raising taxes.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

A little history as I recall it.

It started with State Legislation that took bingo, played mostly on Wednesday night for pocket change by little old gray haired ladies, out of church basements and into mammoth parlors in rundown shopping centers. The requirement was that said bingo halls must be associated with a non-profit entity such as The Church of What’s Happin’ Now, Do Gooders for Jesus etc.; government regulation at its finest.

Next, Tribes began opening gigantic, colossal bingo parlors on reservation land; followed by gambling compacts with the State that authorized pull-tab games, and today we have incredibly ugly fabric buildings alongside our interstate highways designed to separate people from their money. Many of which I suspect can ill afford to be separated from it.

During the same time period, Remington Park racetrack opened with the promise of increased revenues for schools, and that has turned into a casino of sorts which will continue to slide down another slippery slope; destination unknown.

Has all of this gambling solved any social problems?

Has it generated the much hyped commercial development?

Are our schools or highways better because of the tax money allegedly generated by these gambling enterprises?

Do these examples of government being complicit in what is still an illegal activity if carried out in your garage improve the perception that young people have of government?

Has any of this improved the quality of life for the average citizen in Oklahoma?

We are now only a short time away from implementing a State operated lottery; another enterprise that would be illegal if you ran it from your kitchen even if you gave every penny to charity.

Does anyone see any hypocrisy at work here?

Is this the high moral ground espoused by most of our political leaders.

I think that one must answer these questions before trying to decide if it is a good idea to open a gambling casino in Bricktown.

Please forgive my leap onto this soap box.

I still stand by my post from April 2005, except we can begin to see that the Brad Henry lottery is not going to be the great boon to education that it was hyped to be and the adverse fallout from state sponsored casino gambling is at least as great as predicted.

[BDP]

I still stand by my post from April 2005, except we can begin to see that the Brad Henry lottery is not going to be the great boon to education that it was hyped to be.

I think anyone who looked into it knew that going in. It wasn't just Brad Henry either. Many bought the idea that this was a way to fund schools without taxes and many also looked at it as a status inequity between OK and neighboring states. The lottery exists because of legislative action and an overwhelming support by the people as evident by SQ 705 and 706, not because of unilateral executive action.

Oklahoman had been rejecting funding their schools for years and, for some reason, they seemed to support the lottery over every other method presented (except OKC, who voted to supplement their schools’ infrastructure with a sales tax increase, that some believed unconstitutional).

Anyone could have realized that the lottery is not a miracle worker by looking at other states that have the lottery. But this state wanted it and, for better or worse, Brad Henry and the legislature came through for the people.

I voted against it, not because I have anything against lotteries or gambling, but because I knew it would become a scapegoat, as it already has, and it would only further discourage Oklahomans from funding their schools in other ways when needed.

I also agree with your point about the hypocrisy. It's total BS that I could be arrested and convicted for running a numbers game, while the same institution that would prosecute and punish me engages in exactly the same practice.

[ultimatesooner]

Are our schools or highways better because of the tax money allegedly generated by these gambling enterprises?

look at Sequoyah HS in Cherokee county and all of their new facilities that the Cherokees have built.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

look at Sequoyah HS in Cherokee county and all of their new facilities that the Cherokees have built.

I'm not sure what you mean ultimatesooner. Did the Cherokee Tribe build this school and other facilities or was it built with state gambling tax proceeds? If the Tribe built it, then you are only helping me make my point. If it was built with state funds, then that isn't much to show for all the casinos that line the interstates.

In the Oklahoma City area we have had to levy a tax on ourselves to get our school facilities back up to any decent standards and on a statewide basis, teacher pay in Oklahoma doesn't match regional standards. The Oklahoma Legislature talks a lot about education, but our schools still aren't the priority that they should be.

[Nuclear_2525]

I'm not sure what you mean ultimatesooner. Did the Cherokee Tribe build this school and other facilities or was it built with state gambling tax proceeds? If the Tribe built it, then you are only helping me make my point. If it was built with state funds, then that isn't much to show for all the casinos that line the interstates.

The tribe Donated money to build it...the money didn't come from the extra money the state is making from casinos, because Sequoyah is a Private school. However, I'm sure that the money the Cherokees are making off of their casinos is what led them to this donation...

[The Old Downtown Guy]

The tribe Donated money to build it...the money didn't come from the extra money the state is making from casinos, because Sequoyah is a Private school. However, I'm sure that the money the Cherokees are making off of their casinos is what led them to this donation...

Thanks for the info Nuclear_2525. So how does that relate to the point I was suggesting? That being, that our public schools are not better off as a result of state sponsored gambling.

[venture]

Anyone who actually believed the state lottery would save schools needed to get hit by a car. I laughed everytime I heard "education lottery" used. Morons...its a freaking lottery like every state. The only difference, we are still pathetic with scratch offs, one actually state drawing and then the Powerball. Hopefully we'll see things improve.

[okcpulse]

venture79, I don't believe anyone thought it would SAVE schools. Not even me. It's merely a supplement for school funding. Who said public schools needed to be saved? Improve is a better word. And seriously, it doesn't matter the quality of education. When children go to school in fear every day (being bullied), education means crap.

It takes time for a lottery to build up and introduce more games. I've seen this done in other states. So yes, things will improve.

[Moondog]

I used to support the idea of Indian casinos. But after a visit to the Cherokee Casino in Roland this past weekend, I'm not so sure I do anymore.

It wasn't my idea to even stop there; my mom and grandma were the ones who wanted to stop. We had taken a trip to Fort Smith to visit a relative and on the way back they suggested a stop and I went along with it.

When I walked in the door, I just wanted to turn around and leave. First of all, I'd say the median age of the casino's patronage that day was about 60. Many of them were smokers and most were overweight -- quite a few I'd say were even morbidly obese. I looked at some of the faces of these people and what I saw was depression, poverty and desperation. These folks didn't have any business spending what little money they've got on slot machines and poker tables. One old woman I saw at one of the slot machines was hooked up to an oxygen tank and even she was smoking. I saw people missing their teeth. One old guy I saw only had one upper tooth, and it was as yellow as a banana. I was almost run over by a fat woman scrambling to get to the free Pepsi fountain. She took not one, but five cups of free Pepsi. She acted like the world was about the end and she needed as much as she could get her fat little hands on. And another woman I saw I think may have been a prostitute. These people are the face of Indian casinos.

My point is this: These Indian casinos aren't glamourous; they're nothing but magnates for uneducated and impoverished people looking to strike it rich. Sadly, few ever really do. These casinos take advantage of those poor people who don't have the sense to spend what little money they have on more important things.

If this is the face of Indian gaming, then I'm sorry I ever supported it.

Oklahoma is a poor enough state as it is. Last I checked we're in the bottom 10 in per capita income. We may not think it's so poor of a state when we're driving down NW Expressway or through Edmond or Nichols Hills. But once you get outside the OKC and Tulsa metros, it's really bad. And I'm afraid these casinos are only going to make people in our state (especially the rural areas) even poorer.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I used to support the idea of Indian casinos. But after a visit to the Cherokee Casino in Roland this past weekend, I'm not so sure I do anymore. . . .

. . . These Indian casinos aren't glamourous; they're nothing but magnates for uneducated and impoverished people looking to strike it rich. Sadly, few ever really do. These casinos take advantage of those poor people who don't have the sense to spend what little money they have on more important things.

If this is the face of Indian gaming, then I'm sorry I ever supported it.

Eloquently put Moondog. I doubt that the Governor or the members of the Legislature that supported the idea of legalizing gambling ever visit the casinos they were complicit in establishing.

These are many of the same people that wind up in emergency rooms and utilizing other social services that more than off set the dubious positive economic impact of legalized gambling. Nationwide, 18,000 people without access to health services die each year of problems directly linked to their lack of health insurance. The US population as a whole is becoming less and less healthy and the costs of their health care will continue to escalate. While our political leadership continues to focus on economic development as the solution to all problems, our young people are witness every day to the vast divide difference between the “family values” espoused by politicians and their actions.

Sorry to get off topic.

[okcpulse]

Sorry folks, but I do not believe that the government can regulate personal choices, and neither should we. A woman smoking and using an oxygen tank? What on earth does that have to do with gambling? She'll still be doing that at home. Morbidly obese people get that way because they just don't give a crap about themselves (genetic medical conditions excluded), not because they lost to a hand of poker.

This country has the problems it has because all of us keep pointing fingers at the wrong people and the wrong problems. The 20th Century brought us fast food, soft drinks, drive-thru menus and smoking commercials, not to mention the good ol' remote control.

Oklahoma WAS in the bottom ten in terms of per capita income. We're slowly working our way out of those rankings (in 1995 Oklahoma was ranked 46, last year we ranked 39).

Now, do I like rural Indian casinos? No, too smokey, too stuffy and not enough entertainment. I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't believe gambling is where we should start when it comes to poverty and health problems. You have to nip that in the bud. The problems start LONG before anyone steps foot into a casino. Every seen overweight parents with overweight children on their way into KFC? Bet ya those overweight children will grow up to be just like their parents... diabetic problems, arthritis, heart complications and any other cross to bear from obesity. And on continues the cycle.

[Moondog]

Oklahoma WAS in the bottom ten in terms of per capita income. We're slowly working our way out of those rankings (in 1995 Oklahoma was ranked 46, last year we ranked 39).

I knew we left the bottom 10, but I could swear I read somewhere else a while back that we were back down to like 42nd in the country. But really... 39th, 42nd... 46th... Still not great.

[okcpulse]

Point is that we are moving in the right direction. But consider this, Moondog. Look at rural areas in every state in this country. They pale in comparison with metropolitan areas. Ever been to Bakersfield, CA? How about rural Arizona, or even southern Illinois. Few rural cities are wealthy, and I mean few.

Nope, we are not back down to 42nd. We've held at 39 in 2004 and 2005, and according to estimates for 2006 we will be moving up to 38. Like I said, we're headed in the right direction.

[Luke]

I used to support the idea of Indian casinos. But after a visit to the Cherokee Casino in Roland this past weekend, I'm not so sure I do anymore.

It wasn't my idea to even stop there; my mom and grandma were the ones who wanted to stop. We had taken a trip to Fort Smith to visit a relative and on the way back they suggested a stop and I went along with it.

When I walked in the door, I just wanted to turn around and leave. First of all, I'd say the median age of the casino's patronage that day was about 60. Many of them were smokers and most were overweight -- quite a few I'd say were even morbidly obese. I looked at some of the faces of these people and what I saw was depression, poverty and desperation. These folks didn't have any business spending what little money they've got on slot machines and poker tables. One old woman I saw at one of the slot machines was hooked up to an oxygen tank and even she was smoking. I saw people missing their teeth. One old guy I saw only had one upper tooth, and it was as yellow as a banana. I was almost run over by a fat woman scrambling to get to the free Pepsi fountain. She took not one, but five cups of free Pepsi. She acted like the world was about the end and she needed as much as she could get her fat little hands on. And another woman I saw I think may have been a prostitute. These people are the face of Indian casinos.

My point is this: These Indian casinos aren't glamourous; they're nothing but magnates for uneducated and impoverished people looking to strike it rich. Sadly, few ever really do. These casinos take advantage of those poor people who don't have the sense to spend what little money they have on more important things.

If this is the face of Indian gaming, then I'm sorry I ever supported it.

Oklahoma is a poor enough state as it is. Last I checked we're in the bottom 10 in per capita income. We may not think it's so poor of a state when we're driving down NW Expressway or through Edmond or Nichols Hills. But once you get outside the OKC and Tulsa metros, it's really bad. And I'm afraid these casinos are only going to make people in our state (especially the rural areas) even poorer.

This same argument could be made for bars and liquor stores, especially in rural areas.

I don't think we should shut down casinos or bars simply because of the comparatively few who are irresponsible. Even if we shut down bars and casinos to "help" these people, they still have the same mindset. That isn't "solving" the problem. To correct things here in Oklahoma, we need to focus on education from an early age. When we get educated people as citizens and leaders, over time the whole city from top to bottom will change for the better and high quality products and services will become a standard that is desired among a higher percentage of people.

Personally, I avoid the "ghetto" casinos. I've been to WinStar. Except for the outside of it, I thought the casino was a very nice casino. I look forward to visiting both Riverwind just south of Norman and Firelake Grand in Shawnee when they open up.

[soonerliberal]

I can see it now: I'm on a pleasant stroll along the canal and I find a quarter on the ground. I walk up to a nice and convenient slot machine. I place the quarter in and DING DING DING!!!


In all reality, I think a casino would be good just south of the current I-40 along on the canal next to the soon to be formed boulevard, once the highway is demolished.

[venture]

If we get a Bricktown Casino...I have to say a big NO to it being Indian ran. Let someone like MGM Mirage or Harrahs come in and run it. At least then we know they will push it to help bring in regional, even national, traffic which just means more $$$ for OKC. Yes it has the gambling, but the dinning and entertainment venues that would come with a resort like that would be more than worth it.

[SoonerDave]

Oklahoma is a poor enough state as it is. Last I checked we're in the bottom 10 in per capita income. We may not think it's so poor of a state when we're driving down NW Expressway or through Edmond or Nichols Hills. But once you get outside the OKC and Tulsa metros, it's really bad. And I'm afraid these casinos are only going to make people in our state (especially the rural areas) even poorer.

Awesomely stated. The point isn't about the gummint enforcing decisions, the point is that the government becomes a pimp for the economic masochism that *perpetuates* the very kind of dependency the lottery alludes to solve.

Yes, the lady on oxygen will still be there, and the obese woman running to the pepsi machine will still be obese. But why on earth to we want to create a situation where the state wants to *depend* on that kind of human condition for additional income?

-SoonerDave

[Midtowner]

If we want to do the casino thing right, the best thing would be to zone an area down or up the river from Bricktown as casino-legal. Then have some very stringent zoning guidelines, e.g., size, structure, etc. in order to start with as many first class, high to midrise structures as possible (no 1-story converted strip malls).

Connect it to Bricktown and the convention district via the water taxis. I think that's a definite recipe for success.

Bricktown ought to stay seperated from the casinos in some way, yet if we have casinos, it would pay to have them readily accessible to convention-goers. I think my proposal would be a win-win.

I'd still never go, and Bricktown would remain as it is -- an entertainment district rather than a gambling district.