Crossroads Mall

[SoonerDave]

Agreed

It doesn't have a future as a mall. Demographics is not on Crossroads side. There is high concentration of wealth on the north side to keep them going.

And there is a high concentration of wealth south and west of Crossroads as well.

[jn1780]

And there is a high concentration of wealth south and west of Crossroads as well.

Not nearly as much as Quail and Penn. Plus, their closer to the wealth

[Jesseda]

Are the zombies still hanging around in that mall? Also what stores are actually left inside that place? to bad they didnt try converting part of the place into like a Gattitown

[Video Expert]

I think there are several reasons for Crossroads' demise that have all been cited in this thread. The proliferation of big box, stand-alone shopping west and south of the mall, increased crime, loss of anchors, and the changing demographics, etc.

I also believe that it didn't help the mall at all to have it almost hidden from view with all the pad site strip centers that surround the mall on the west. I'm talking about the old Best Buy and the other strip centers that were built well after the mall was constructed. Drive by Penn or Quail, and the mall is still visible from the roadways (NW Expressway and Memorial respectively). When traveling near Crossroads, and all you see are the ugly backsides of pad site strip centers that completely block the view of the mall from a below-grade I-35. I wonder if anyone travelling I-35 would even know there was a 1.3 million square foot two-story mall behind all that painted brick if they had never been here before. Add that to the freeway construction that made access to the mall more difficult a few years back, and I believe you have all the ingredients necessary for retail disaster.

[SoonerDave]

Not nearly as much as Quail and Penn. Plus, their closer to the wealth

*sigh* I keep thinking someone will get tired of my posting this, but I keep having to correct this kind of wrong perception.....go study the demographics and you'll find the highest per-capita income region of OKC is about 4-5 miles southwest of Crossroads, near the Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Chatenay areas. Before I read that, I was like everyone else, and assumed it would be somewhere north, but it isn't. And I didn't know it until I read some of the development information for Chatenay Square several years ago.

Some folks can't stand the notion of the south side of OKC having any financial relevance, but we do.

[catch22]

*sigh* I keep thinking someone will get tired of my posting this, but I keep having to correct this kind of wrong perception.....go study the demographics and you'll find the highest per-capita income region of OKC is about 4-5 miles southwest of Crossroads, near the Rivendell, Greenbriar, and Chatenay areas. Before I read that, I was like everyone else, and assumed it would be somewhere north, but it isn't. And I didn't know it until I read some of the development information for Chatenay Square several years ago.

Some folks can't stand the notion of the south side of OKC having any financial relevance, but we do.

Although that technically is true. The wealth on the northside is much more prevalent and is not one isolated zip code.

This is coming from a person with a south side, 73170, zip code.

[SoonerDave]

Define "prevalent."

[catch22]

It is spread out more across more zip codes. You have Nichols Hills, Edmond, North OKC, etc.

The wealth you are referring to on the south side is one zip code. The rest of south OKC is relatively average income. Or slightly above average.

[adaniel]

It is spread out more across more zip codes. You have Nichols Hills, Edmond, North OKC, etc.

The wealth you are referring to on the south side is one zip code. The rest of south OKC is relatively average income. Or slightly above average.

73170 has a median income of about 70K per household. Of the 7 zip codes in the SW quadrant of the metro, 73173 (area to the west of 44 and south of Will Rogers) has the highest income (82K median income) but its only got a population of 800. Zip 73160 (almost exclusively Moore) has a median income of 59K . The other 4 zips have incomes that are quite low (all under 50K). This is not considering the areas further north of 240, which are known to be economically distressed.

The southside is a solid, middle/working class area. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what is is.

[jn1780]

73170 has a median income of about 70K per household. Of the 7 zip codes in the SW quadrant of the metro, 73173 (area to the west of 44 and south of Will Rogers) has the highest income (82K median income) but its only got a population of 800. Zip 73160 (almost exclusivity Moore) has a median income of 59K . The other 4 zips have incomes that are quite low (all under 50K). This is not considering the areas further north of 240, which are known to be economically distressed.

The southside is a solid, middle/working class area. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what is is.

And there's more to it also. Penn Square is next door to Chesapeake and Quail is surrounded by offices and medical clinics. They are conviently located near major places of employment. I don't believe Penn would be nearly as nice as it is today if Cheaspeake wasn't nearby.

[adaniel]

And there's more to it also. Penn Square is next door to Chesapeake and Quail is surrounded by offices and medical clinics. They are conviently located near major places of employment. I don't believe Penn would be nearly as nice as it is today if Cheaspeake wasn't nearby.

Good point. The concentration of white collar, professional jobs in general all skew north.

[MonkeesFan]

Are the zombies still hanging around in that mall? Also what stores are actually left inside that place? to bad they didnt try converting part of the place into like a Gattitown

Yeah, zombies are still hanging around at Crossroads...Bath and Body Works, Forever 721, Spencer's Gift, Candylopis, the sports store, Hot Spot pizza, the spa thing, chiense food restaurant, Champs Sports, Footlocker, and I forgot the others are still open

[BBatesokc]

Are the zombies still hanging around in that mall? Also what stores are actually left inside that place? to bad they didnt try converting part of the place into like a Gattitown

Store Directory

[MonkeesFan]

Store Directory

Only 34 stores....

[kukblue1]

They should tear it down build a football stadium there and get an NFL team.

[MonkeesFan]

They should tear it down build a football stadium there and get an NFL team.

Would be nice but I will always be a Vikings fan no matter what! I do not root for the Thunder either, I am a Magic fan!

[goodfriday]

They should tear it down build a football stadium there and get an NFL team.

This is the best idea yet !!

[ljbab728]

Good point. The concentration of white collar, professional jobs in general all skew north.

Which is still basically irrelevant when discussing the failure of the mall. It was extremely successful for many years when the south side of OKC had virtually no high income areas. It was never a high end shopping mall anyway.

[jn1780]

Which is still basically irrelevant when discussing the failure of the mall. It was extremely successful for many years when the south side of OKC had virtually no high income areas. It was never a high end shopping mall anyway.

Higher end malls are more likely to survive in todays world.

[ljbab728]

Higher end malls are more likely to survive in todays world.

I'm not debating that but that still had nothing to do with the demise of Crossroads. Quail Springs is hardly a high end mall.
Your point would seem to counter previous arguments. Since Crossroads was not a higher end mall it shouldn't require a higher income demographic in it's area to survive. There were many factors that went into it's decline but that's not one of them.

[ShiroiHikari]

I think there are several reasons for Crossroads' demise that have all been cited in this thread. The proliferation of big box, stand-alone shopping west and south of the mall, increased crime, loss of anchors, and the changing demographics, etc.

I also believe that it didn't help the mall at all to have it almost hidden from view with all the pad site strip centers that surround the mall on the west. I'm talking about the old Best Buy and the other strip centers that were built well after the mall was constructed. Drive by Penn or Quail, and the mall is still visible from the roadways (NW Expressway and Memorial respectively). When traveling near Crossroads, and all you see are the ugly backsides of pad site strip centers that completely block the view of the mall from a below-grade I-35. I wonder if anyone travelling I-35 would even know there was a 1.3 million square foot two-story mall behind all that painted brick if they had never been here before. Add that to the freeway construction that made access to the mall more difficult a few years back, and I believe you have all the ingredients necessary for retail disaster.

I think you pretty much hit it on the head. The construction made it really difficult to get in for a long time, and those ugly pad sites don't help either (whose brilliant idea was that?!). The mall is plenty visible if you're coming at it on the interstate from Midwest City, but that doesn't help much because Midwest City has its own retail and its own failed mall. If they wanted pad sites for whatever dumb reason, they should've put them on the other side, not the I-35 side.

Also a guy did get shot there one time a few years back, which is pretty much the death knell for any mall.

[jn1780]

I'm not debating that but that still had nothing to do with the demise of Crossroads. Quail Springs is hardly a high end mall.
Your point would seem to counter previous arguments. Since Crossroads was not a higher end mall it shouldn't require a higher income demographic in it's area to survive. There were many factors that went into it's decline but that's not one of them.

It takes careful management to keep Quail competitive with all the surrounding strip malls. The difference though is that if Quail had lousy management we wouldn't be having a "End of Quailsprings Mall near" thread. It would have been demolished and redeveloped into offices, apartments or homes a long time ago without a second thought. I don't think anyone can say with any confidence though that Quail will be around 20 years from now once the area matures and the hot money moves to new undeveloped parts of the city.

[kevinpate]

...
Also a guy did get shot there one time a few years back, which is pretty much the death knell for any mall.

Of all the factors that have diminished CRM, this isn't one. There have been far more crime incidents in the last decade at Penn Square Mall than at CRM. And that actually makes sense. Crime follows the money, and more folks are shopping at PSQ than at CRM.

[HangryHippo]

Of all the factors that have diminished CRM, this isn't one. There have been far more crime incidents in the last decade at Penn Square Mall than at CRM. And that actually makes sense. Crime follows the money, and more folks are shopping at PSQ than at CRM.

While this may be true, how many people have been shot at Penn Square?

[jedicurt]

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