First National Center

[Lafferty Daniel]

They mean that one floors has a men's room and the next floor has a women's room, which in turn means that one gender has to go to another floor to use the restroom. If a company only has one floor leased then someone is out of luck.

Makes sense now. Thanks. I thought they meant that the bathrooms were basically a separate floor. So that it would look like this:

Floor 3: Office Space
-
Floor 2: Bathroom
-
Floor 1: Office Space

And this didn't make sense to me to have a bathroom take up a whole floor.

[BoulderSooner]

They mean that one floors has a men's room and the next floor has a women's room, which in turn means that one gender has to go to another floor to use the restroom. If a company only has one floor leased then someone is out of luck.

the bathrooms are "midfloor" .... as in no matter what floor you are on you have to go up or down stairs to the bathroom ... and they do alternate men women men women ..

[Just the facts]

the bathrooms are "midfloor" .... as in no matter what floor you are on you have to go up or down stairs to the bathroom ... and they do alternate men women men women ..

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

[jedicurt]

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

i believe so.

[architect5311]

Are they only accessible via the stairwell?

Yes, and they are located in between floors at the stair landings. So you go into the stairwell and go up or down to stair landing and the door to the restroom is located at the landing level between floors. Continue up or down and your on the next floor...

I officed on 28 and the fix for the restrooms to meet code and ADA was to build new on the actual leaseable floors. In our case it was a single unisex accessible restroom.

[hoya]

Rather than Midfirst building new (assuming they are planning on building new), perhaps someone could talk them into buying FNC and renovating it. Is it big enough to meet their needs?

[Just the facts]

Rather than Midfirst building new (assuming they are planning on building new), perhaps someone could talk them into buying FNC and renovating it. Is it big enough to meet their needs?

First things first - FNC will NEVER be an office building again.

[bluedogok]

I think the only way it could be office is more of a small company office in a mixed-use configuration. The majority of it would need to be hotel/residential.

[bombermwc]

Agreed. And it's going to have to be torn down to the studs to do it.

[OklahomaNick]

BTW, the last loan extension is due to expire this week, but I've more or less stopped getting my hopes up that something is actually going to happen here any time soon.

I just don't understand HOW they keep getting BS loophole extensions!

[Pete]

Nick, they've been paying for them.

Steve Lackmeyer reported approximately $1 million has been paid to the lender to keep dragging this out.

[Just the facts]

Nick, they've been paying for them.

Steve Lackmeyer reported approximately $1 million has been paid to the lender to keep dragging this out.

You really have to wonder where he is getting the money for these extensions. If he has paid $1 million over the last few months why couldn't he just make the monthly loan payment in the first place.

[Pete]

Because he's in default of the current loan and you can't just make payments without bringing the account current.

[Just the facts]

I meant BEFORE he went into default. How does he have access to millions now that he didn't have access to before? Seems that the bankruptcy judge should ask him.

[OklahomaNick]

Typical capitalization rates for investment properties like this would be 10% on his investment..
I seriously doubt he is making 10% return on his investment.

With little to no plans to sink a lot of money into the building, I just don't understand why they are doing this.
I honestly don't know how they are making enough revenue to keep the lights on.

They have to KNOW they are upside down in their loan!

[Pete]

He's done this with countless properties and ultimately ends up surrendering them, but only after bankruptcy, foreclosure attempts, multiple lawsuits, etc., etc.

He held on like grim death to The Roosevelt Lofts, a restoration and conversion of a beautiful old building in downtown L.A. He was sued for not returning deposits after the building went belly-up and ultimately it was bought out of foreclosure and turned into rentals. But, most the restoration was complete by the time they pried his hands off the property.

I'm not sure what he has left in his portfolio and may see this as his last chance in terms of development. It's pretty clear he loves to plan/dream big, with little regard to reality.

[kevinpate]

I am uncertain how anyone, given projections of 80+ mil to rehab the space, can ever make money on it

[bombermwc]

I am uncertain how anyone, given projections of 80+ mil to rehab the space, can ever make money on it

I feel like a good place to start is to first to decide what you're doing. No one ever seems to be able to say "i'm going to make this building ______". If you want to convert to residential, start with a floor that's currently unoccupied, and get cracking. You can make a "model" floor and then get moving on the others are you get leases. All the while, the current office space tenants can stay there. There's no reason you have to empty the entire structure at one time to do this. Demo on one of those floors can be totally completed in a week. So you even minimize the amount of time someone is taking up an elevator.

Really the same concept works for commercial as well. No one would want the place the way it is now. So even if you want to stay commercial, you'll have to do some gutting. No one wants office space that smells like old wet dust.

[Rover]

I feel like a good place to start is to first to decide what you're doing. No one ever seems to be able to say "i'm going to make this building ______". If you want to convert to residential, start with a floor that's currently unoccupied, and get cracking. You can make a "model" floor and then get moving on the others are you get leases. All the while, the current office space tenants can stay there. There's no reason you have to empty the entire structure at one time to do this. Demo on one of those floors can be totally completed in a week. So you even minimize the amount of time someone is taking up an elevator.

Really the same concept works for commercial as well. No one would want the place the way it is now. So even if you want to stay commercial, you'll have to do some gutting. No one wants office space that smells like old wet dust.

I think you completely underestimate the task of renovating a building like this. The entire mechanical infrastructure needs replacing, I understand. And that is hard to do a bit at a time when you are talking about plumbing, hvac, wiring, etc. Plus, the whole reconstruction process is dirty and people generally don't want to live or work in a building being completely renovated. Doing it a floor at a time prolongs the agony for years. Plus a bit at a time is pretty inefficient and costly. Cosmetics is one thing, structure and infrastructure is another.

[BDP]

First things first - FNC will NEVER be an office building again.

Probably, but why not?

Devon just spent $750 million to build a 1,800,000 square foot office tower. That's about $400/ft. FNC has 990,000 square feet of office space. $400/ft spent on the FNC would be about $400 million, or over 4 times what we're guessing it would take to do a renovation. Could someone looking to build an office tower drop $200 million on it, or about half the cost per foot of what Devon did, and get it to modern spec for less than building a new tower?

Now, Devon built a world class facility and I am sure you can build a modern facility of the same size for less. So, I guess the question is, what is the minimum it would cost to build a 1MM square foot modern tower and how does that compare with a renovation of FNC? No doubt there are buildings in the world that are of FNCs style and pedigree and are fully functioning office towers. What is it specifically about FNC that prevents it from being one, too?

NOTE: These numbers are sourced from WikiPedia and the math is mine, both of which welcome, and probably deserve, further scrutiny.

[Urbanized]

I think you completely underestimate the task of renovating a building like this. The entire mechanical infrastructure needs replacing, I understand. And that is hard to do a bit at a time when you are talking about plumbing, hvac, wiring, etc. Plus, the whole reconstruction process is dirty and people generally don't want to live or work in a building being completely renovated. Doing it a floor at a time prolongs the agony for years. Plus a bit at a time is pretty inefficient and costly. Cosmetics is one thing, structure and infrastructure is another.

So...you're advocating demolition then?

[Just the facts]

Probably, but why not?

The floor plates in the tower are way too small. At best it would make nice space for a bunch of small companies but the supply of companies just isn't there, and if it was most couldn't afford the rent it would require. If the Devon office tower was a spec building Devon wouldn't be able to afford the rent (well, they could but they wouldn't want to).

Jane Jacobs has a real good chapter on why old buildings are important in her book The Death and Life of Great American Cities. The non-tower portion might could make a go of it as office space but it will probably be a parking garage soon.

[Steve]

http://www.newsok.com/federal-author...rticle/3717097

[Pete]

Wowee.

Perhaps this latest issue with the law will be enough for Capmark to finally stop dealing with this guy.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I came in early this morning and noticed the top of the building was all lit up like it used to be. Maybe it has been that way for a while, but I just noticed.