Kd's Restaurant / Legacy Grill

[CaptDave]

Parking is a Bricktown issue, but its the perfect location for true loft living and might provide a closer to entry level housing than new construction. I wonder why that isn't being explored more for unused upper floors in Bricktown.

I've wondered this for quite a while now. I think most larger buildings' upper floors are vacant from appearances from the street save for a few offices here and there and ACM@UCO. It seems to be a perfect opportunity to convert several of the upper floors to lofts.

[king183]

I would like to see Mr. Hogan step up to the plate and hit a home run with a "Centennial II" type project. Ground floor restaurant / retail and upper level either offices or condos. He has done it before and the Centennial is his crown jewel of Lower Bricktown. There is absolutely no reason that Hogan can not be successful with a higher quality development here.

Yeah, but there is absolutely no way he's going to do that. Based on his first design for this restaurant, he's just trying to do the minimum "nice" thing allowable. He has no interest in making this a "homerun" project. He'll update the design to placate the commissioners, we'll all be pissed about it, he'll go ahead and build it, and for the next 20 years we'll be lamenting what could have been and the missed opportunities. We've seen this show before.

[Steve]

Attention Architects, Designers, Architectural Students! | OKC Central

[Buffalo Bill]

And yet I know people who are buying at Centennial, and I know someone who sold their apartment there almost as soon as it went in the market recently. It wouldn't be my choice, but there are certainly sales occurring.

According to the Assessor site, 7 units have changed hands so far this year.

[CaptDave]

Attention Architects, Designers, Architectural Students! | OKC Central

Great idea Steve. I have seen what these talented people can do when their creative talents are used. It wouldn't surprise me to see half a dozen viable concepts that far exceed the least common denominator mess thrown out previously.

[Steve]

Apparently some OKC Central readers aren't happy with this post....

[Just the facts]

Apparently some OKC Central readers aren't happy with this post....

LOL Steve, you seemed to hit a nerve. I only wish I possed even a minimal amount of drawing/design skills.

[CaptDave]

Apparently some OKC Central readers aren't happy with this post....

They are the ones that would be ok with a metal arch span building thrown up there because of property owner rights. There will always be a number of people who won't care about good design if they do not have to look at it every day. They completely ignore the public side of the public/private partnership and the duty of the public side to protect the tax payer's interests from cheap, lowest common denominator development.

[HangryHippo]

Apparently some OKC Central readers aren't happy with this post....

What is their problem?

My earlier assertion that hogan is a fool is ringing truer and truer.

[BoulderSooner]

Shawn and I were talking about this yesterday and he mentioned something really important to note. Toby Keith's restaurant used to have a decent canal frontage but once they were allowed to close that patio off, they lost it.

they closed the patio off because no one ever used it

[Pete]

Hogan's argument that the "tenant is king" doesn't even make sense.

Hal Smith restaurants occupy lots of beautiful elaborate buildings: Redrock Canyon Grill, Mahogany Steakhouse, Charlestons, even Louies have great patios and curb appeal.

I don't believe for a minute Hal is demanding a plain Jane building with absolutely zero character or interaction with one of the most unique settings in all of OKC. It would be like having Redrock oriented to the parking lot instead of Lake Hefner.

I think this is the case of a developer putting in the least amount of effort and investment while still pulling good rent from restaurants anxious to take advantage of a very heavily tax-supported development.

[Mr. Cotter]

You're right. The Louie's in Midtown has a great sidewalk patio, and most of the Lake Hefner locations take full advantage of their location.

[Larry OKC]

Why didn't they bring these issues up with Toby Keith's?

While TK's main entrance was the parking lot side, it did interact with the canal with patio seating and an entrance. Didn't it also have a Canal drop off/on as well? TK is pushed fairly close to the Canal edge too IIRC. I know they enclosed the patio area but isn't it still accessable from the Canal side? Plus TK looks like a 2 story building from the outside. As someone suggested, if he doesn't want to build 2 "real" stories and the increased density, he can fake it again.

[Bellaboo]

Red Rock Canyon Grill has it's entry oriented on the side of the building, as not to cater to the parking lot. The same could be done here, thus putting the emphesus on the canal.

[Larry OKC]

they closed the patio off because no one ever used it

It was used often (weather permitting)

It wasn't attached to the canal would be the reason I would speculate.

??? It is very close to the Canal

Pete: true, there is the small 2nd level "private" dining area. From what I heard, it was intended for Mr. Keith's personal use for his friends & family etc. Don't know if it is open to the general public for private events or not.

[Pete]

Toby Keith's does have a 2nd level, it's just a small area:



And besides, TK's was allowed under the old OCURA regime which also allowed all the other half-arsed development in Lower Bricktown. AND it has a significant patio on the canal (now enclosed):




Our expectations and requirements of developers should be increasing, not rolling backwards.

[Skyline]

Is there anyway that a new building in this location could interact with the canal and the new boulevard?

[Fantastic]

TK is pushed fairly close to the Canal edge too IIRC.

I wouldn't say it is all that close to the Canal. Toby's patio, even before it was enclosed was NOTHING like Bourbon Street's patio (which is right next to the canal, unlike Toby's)

I know they enclosed the patio area but isn't it still accessable from the Canal side?

It is not. The canal side entrance has been closed, and there is a sign telling people to go to the other side.

[Rover]

It was used often (weather permitting)

Not to be argumentative, but why would any business close a section that is used often and is profitable, or at least creates a draw for the rest of their business? And, if they determined it to be not-profitable, should they be forced to keep it open and in service at a loss? What would you do as a business owner?

I think sometimes we want things to be what they are not. Wishful thinking doesn't make facts. The truth is there is very little on-canal eating/drinking now. OKCitians prefer the comfort of indoor and the bug free climate controlled eating areas except on 25-30 really fine evenings. On top of that, their is very little foot traffic along the canal level in lower BT, even in front of the theaters. It is lively at street level, not so much at canal level. The most exciting thing for patio diners to see at TKs or the new restaurant is the back of the Sonic building - an area devoid of complementary activity. People arrive and park in the lot and enter from the south...nobody walks there from the canal or takes a canal boat there.

Like shopping centers place anchor stores at each end to get people traffic throughout the mall when they walk between them, the Canal needs a popular draw at the east end of the current TK parking lot. Build the structured parking at the boulevard facing side on the west end of the parking lot and make the people walk past these places. Activity will beget activity. Instead of trying to force them to do something that will be unsuccessful, try creating an atmosphere that will make it profitable to do what is preferred.

[Rover]

Possible answer...don't build anything on the lot, but make it a passageway to create traffic. Line it on East and West with small shops & outdoor seating. Entrance to the shops from the canal side. Boulevard side for drop off and pick up only.

[BoulderSooner]

Possible answer...don't build anything on the lot, but make it a passageway to create traffic. Line it on East and West with small shops & outdoor seating. Entrance to the shops from the canal side. Boulevard side for drop off and pick up only.

that is not a possible plan

[Fantastic]

The most exciting thing for patio diners to see at TKs or the new restaurant is the back of the Sonic building - an area devoid of complementary activity.

Only partially true. Asside from the organized break dancing, I have seen other activities (mostly music related) on that little stage area. True these events are few and far between, but they do happen on occasion. I would like to see that area put to more use for entertainment.

People arrive and park in the lot and enter from the south...nobody walks there from the canal or takes a canal boat there.

Again, only partially true. Yes the majority of people enter from the parking lot side. But there is a large number of people (tourists and locals alike) that enjoy walking the Canal from end to end. Usually they complain about the parking lot only entrance. As far as Water Taxi passengers go... you are DEAD WRONG on that one, friend. The Toby Keith's dock is BY FAR the most popular drop off point along the tour (and it's not because that's where they parked). There is a very large number of people who ask to be let off there. When asked if they are eating there or if this is where they parked, a vast majority say are eating there, and will eventually be picked up there again with to-go boxes (either that or they are going up the ramp to Earl's)

[CuatrodeMayo]

that is not a possible plan

I really don't know why you post these useless bits of commentary on this site if you don't bother to provide any shred of supporting reasoning.

Stating the reason or reasons why this idea is not possible would be a good start.

[Rover]

that is not a possible plan

Okay, I'll bite...why not?

[Rover]

If we put parking at the ends and the primary entances and exits on the canal side with destinations in between, would it not help? The boulevard will see the back of the theaters and the parking lots....pretty bad.

Using the exiting opening as a passage/plaza might encourage funneling more foot traffic from parking and walking in bricktown and less that just drives into the backside and goes ONLY to a single destination.