Kd's Restaurant / Legacy Grill

[Steve]

Lower Bricktown is under design control - but it's overseen by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority, which has historically been more flexible than the design review committees.

[soonerguru]

I believe the Bricktown Design Committee does not have jurisidction south of Reno Ave.... Maybe I was dreaming that up.

Correct. Which is why there was nothing stopping Randy Hogan from recreating Memorial Blvd. on the Canal.

And with a couple of exceptions, Hal Smith Restaurants pretty much blow.

[Spartan]

Hogan continues to disappoint. I seriously don't understand his ineptitude here.

It's extremely easy to understand...he can build cheap **** and rake in the cash doing it because people will still go.

[Rover]

It's extremely easy to understand...he can build cheap **** and rake in the cash doing it because people will still go.

Perhaps rather than vilifying capitalists, maybe the people who set the standards should really be the ones held accountable. This is a commercial venture with intention to make money. The building it goes in is controlled by other entities. Don't blame those merely playing the game fairly. Change the restrictions and make the investor decide what is worth the investment considering the risk.

[Bellaboo]

Correct. Which is why there was nothing stopping Randy Hogan from recreating Memorial Blvd. on the Canal.

And with a couple of exceptions, Hal Smith Restaurants pretty much blow.

Not...... I've been to resturants in 24 countries, and I've eaten at much worse than Charlestons and Red Rock.......and for a lot heftier price.

I just spent the last 4 days in Niagara Falls Canada, and wow was that expensive for what you get......

[Spartan]

Perhaps rather than vilifying capitalists, maybe the people who set the standards should really be the ones held accountable. This is a commercial venture with intention to make money. The building it goes in is controlled by other entities. Don't blame those merely playing the game fairly. Change the restrictions and make the investor decide what is worth the investment considering the risk.

Do you think I would object to heightened design requirements downtown? Or OCURA/Alliance holding them to a higher standard on land relinquished to them by the public, along a canal that the public built for Hogan...etc.

[Just the facts]

I agree with everything you said. But it is sad that the era of capitalists building things of value beyond the bottom line. Seeing buildings that don the names of their builders -- the merchants that built this country, brings me great joy.

Something fundamental has changed over the years. I don't fault people for looking at cheap development and having an emotional prick when they see it. I do too.

This is exactly right Sid and the problem is Wall Street. Just look at Chesapeake here in OKC. Clearly AM did not operate the company at peak profitability, but he created a great place to work, was a great corporate citizen, and shared his wealth with everyone in the state. Thanks to shareholders (and their greed for maximum short-term profitablity) people are already losing their jobs and who know what the future holds. When is the last time you saw a new building constructed that had the owners name cast in stone? Now days we are lucky if they put their name on the building at all.

Somehow profit at all cost got confused as capitalism. Freaking left and right wing statist always looking to government to set the minimum standards. Randy Hogan should hold himself to a higher standard.

[Rover]

This is exactly right Sid and the problem is Wall Street. Just look at Chesapeake here in OKC. Clearly AM did not operate the company at peak profitability, but he created a great place to work, was a great corporate citizen, and shared his wealth with everyone in the state. Thanks to shareholders (and their greed for maximum short-term profitablity) people are already losing their jobs and who know what the future holds. When is the last time you saw a new building constructed that had the owners name cast in stone? Now days we are lucky if they put their name on the building at all.

Somehow profit at all cost got confused as capitalism. Freaking left and right wing statist always looking to government to set the minimum standards. Randy Hogan should hold himself to a higher standard.

There is an easy solution. Don't start public companies and invest people's money when they expect security and profit. Btw, profit drives capitalism. And by "at all costs" I assume that means as long as companies do what YOU think is best then it is okay, but maximizing profit is not. Communists tried it and it failed.

[Steve]

I'm greatly amused by this discussion of capitalism. This was land acquired by the city through eminent domain to take an area that was considered blighted and turn it into a vibrant commercial extension of Bricktown. Randy Hogan was sold the land at a very uncapitalistic price of $2.50 per square foot with the understanding he was to develop the area into a mix of entertainment and shops, and not just restaurants. His renderings showed a development that primarily had two- and three-story buildings. Hogan bid for this urban renewal land with the understanding they expected a higher standard than pad development. But.....

[Just the facts]

I try not to think about it Steve - it just pisses me off.

This is what Randy Hogan told the City we would get.

[okcboy]

The $2.50/ft. was then spent back on infrastuctre if I recall. All while dirt north of reno was going for $35+/ft.

[Rover]

Then all they have to do is deny the plans. Or if we are so outraged, sue for not getting what was promised. If there are solid guidelines that are legally derived at, then enforce it. Otherwise, don't be surprised when the most advantageous commercial plan is executed. I know of no reputable private company that would grant rights at a discount without an enforceable contract.

[Rover]

I'm greatly amused by this discussion of capitalism. This was land acquired by the city through eminent domain to take an area that was considered blighted and turn it into a vibrant commercial extension of Bricktown. Randy Hogan was sold the land at a very uncapitalistic price of $2.50 per square foot with the understanding he was to develop the area into a mix of entertainment and shops, and not just restaurants. His renderings showed a development that primarily had two- and three-story buildings. Hogan bid for this urban renewal land with the understanding they expected a higher standard than pad development. But.....

It takes more than "understandings". It takes enforceable contracts. Otherwise, no one should be surprised when the profit incentives drive the project and not a sense of public duty.

[Just the facts]

The problem is that what Hogan has built ISN'T the most profitable style of development in the long run. If he would go with the most profitable method of development we wouldn't have a problem. What Hogan has done is gone with the cheapest to build.

[Steve]

"You could say they got free land," - Garner Stoll (planning director at the time this project was put out for RFP).
And this, friends, is why I was amused that the word "capitalism" was being mentioned in this discussion....

[BoulderSooner]

The problem is that what Hogan has built ISN'T the most profitable style of development in the long run. If he would go with the most profitable method of development we wouldn't have a problem. What Hogan has done is gone with the cheapest to build.

you wrong .. but whatever ..

[Pete]

While none of Lower Bricktown is to write home about, this newest development really crosses the line into the absurd.

1 story plan box without any real patio right on the canal??


This area is outside the purview of any of the design review committees (which is a problem in itself) but OCURA needs to draw the line and demand better.

Someone needs to go to this meeting next week and raise an objection:

105 N. Hudson Avenue, Suite 101
Wednesday September 19, 2012
10:30 a.m.

[metro]

If the choice is between grass lots and this, then what does that say about this development? If I was a developer and someone even entertained the thought that my development was even comparable to a grass lot, I would be ashamed.

Even moreso, if I was KD and putting my name on this dump of a building, I'd be ashamed to be associated with it.

[metro]

I'm going to try to go.

If I can I'll try and join you.

[BoulderSooner]

While none of Lower Bricktown is to write home about, this newest development really crosses the line into the absurd.

1 story plan box without any real patio right on the canal??


This area is outside the purview of any of the design review committees (which is a problem in itself) but OCURA needs to draw the line and demand better.

Someone needs to go to this meeting next week and raise an objection:

105 N. Hudson Avenue, Suite 101
Wednesday September 19, 2012
10:30 a.m.

how is this builidng any different than the earls/marble slab building

[Skyline]

how is this builidng any different than the earls/marble slab building

It's not and I think that is the point.

[Pete]

The Earl's / Marble Slab building is certainly not very good, but it actually has 20 outdoor tables up on a terrace. It was also wedged in to fit between the theater and the canal.

Even the Sonic Building has a nice terrace and plaza facing the canal.

This building looks worse than most the generic tilt-up crap you see on NW Expressway and Memorial road with virtually no patio or any type of interaction with the canal. And it's in a prime spot that is more or less at canal level with plenty of room to building something decent.


AND it happens not yet to be built. So, it's a bigger issue because there is time to do something about it.

[jn1780]

Even moreso, if I was KD and putting my name on this dump of a building, I'd be ashamed to be associated with it.

Good point. I doubt he really thinks about it, though.

Maybe if people write KD about their thoughts and feelings they can get him on their side.

[JayhawkTransplant]

This building looks worse than most the generic tilt-up crap you see on NW Expressway and Memorial road with virtually no patio or any type of interaction with the canal. And it's in a prime spot that is more or less at canal level with plenty of room to building something decent.

This. When I saw the rendering, I was immediately reminded of the 'Marketplace' building on the SW corner of 33rd and Broadway in Edmond.

[BDP]

Can someone point out the canal to Mr. Hogan? I am pretty sure he is unaware it's there.