Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)

[BoulderSooner]

Not if it has an office tower, 2 residential towers, a hotel tower, and one linear mile of street level retail. Public facilities should foster private sector development, not take the best land away from private sector development. Just becasue they can build an arena there doesn't mean they should.

i didn't say i think it should be the site of a new arena .. i just think it will be the site of a new MAPS 5 arena ..

[OKCisOK4me]

i didn't say i think it should be the site of a new arena .. i just think it will be the site of a new MAPS 5 arena ..

I hope by the time (if and when) we get to a MAPS 5, the new convention center and hotel are built and this site is already sold off to private development. I also hope that by the time a new arena is to be built that the owners of our NBA team will muster up the funds to build a new one themselves. How many NBA arenas were built by the citizens paying a tax as opposed to the owners paying for it themselves?

[ljbab728]

An interesting article about that from four years ago.

http://www.imakenews.com/cppa/e_arti....cfm?x=b11,0,w

Public Ownership of Stadiums has increased over time

Since the 1970s changes in professional sports have led to an increase in publicly funded stadiums. Growing costs in the form of player free agency and changes in the tax code left team owners looking for ways to increase revenues in order to maintain the returns on their investments in professional sports team franchises.4 One of the most effective ways to increase revenues is to invest in a new grand stadium with luxury boxes and elaborate concessions. Benefits to a city of building a stadium have become almost synonymous with the benefits of having a sports team because, for most cities, the cost of not providing public funding for a new stadium is losing the team to another city. As a result, two thirds (66%) of teams in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and MLS are playing in stadiums built or significantly renovated since 1990—with 28% built or significantly renovated since 2000.

[Snowman]

While the costs have skyrocketed since the seventies everything mentioned would be pretty much the same if you were using 1950s, 1930s or 1900s as your starting point. One thing that has been a bit different is how many stadiums are being replaced by a stadium that holds nearly the same amount of people verses before the 1970 stadiums often had much more capacity than the ones they replaced/expanded.

[ljbab728]

While the costs have skyrocketed since the seventies everything mentioned would be pretty much the same if you were using 1950s, 1930s or 1900s as your starting point. One thing that has been a bit different is how many stadiums are being replaced by a stadium that holds nearly the same amount of people verses before the 1970 stadiums often had much more capacity than the ones they replaced/expanded.

True, but that was before the day of expensive suites, which are much more lucrative.

[Oil Capital]

I hope by the time (if and when) we get to a MAPS 5, the new convention center and hotel are built and this site is already sold off to private development. I also hope that by the time a new arena is to be built that the owners of our NBA team will muster up the funds to build a new one themselves. How many NBA arenas were built by the citizens paying a tax as opposed to the owners paying for it themselves?

Quite a few: All three Texas NBA arenas, Miami, Cleveland, Charlotte, New Orleans...

[BoulderSooner]

I hope by the time (if and when) we get to a MAPS 5, the new convention center and hotel are built and this site is already sold off to private development. I also hope that by the time a new arena is to be built that the owners of our NBA team will muster up the funds to build a new one themselves. How many NBA arenas were built by the citizens paying a tax as opposed to the owners paying for it themselves?

why should a owner pay to improve an arena that they don't own? and why would the city not want to own there own arena

[Larry OKC]

I hope by the time (if and when) we get to a MAPS 5, the new convention center and hotel are built and this site is already sold off to private development. I also hope that by the time a new arena is to be built that the owners of our NBA team will muster up the funds to build a new one themselves. How many NBA arenas were built by the citizens paying a tax as opposed to the owners paying for it themselves?

While it is common for there to be some taxpayer subsidy, the Oklahoman had an NBA database that broke it down and it was pretty evenly split with half receiving 50% to 100% and half receiving less than 50% to Zero. Even when broken down by percentages, like 85 to 100% and 0 to 15%, the numbers were fairly even.

why should a owner pay to improve an arena that they don't own? and why would the city not want to own there own arena

By the same token, why should they get revenue from a building they don't own (naming rights, pouring rights etc)? If they want that money they should invest in the building. If they want upgrades, they should pay for them.

[Bellaboo]

While it is common for there to be some taxpayer subsidy, the Oklahoman had an NBA database that broke it down and it was pretty evenly split with half receiving 50% to 100% and half receiving less than 50% to Zero. Even when broken down by percentages, like 85 to 100% and 0 to 15%, the numbers were fairly even.


By the same token, why should they get revenue from a building they don't own (naming rights, pouring rights etc)? If they want that money they should invest in the building. If they want upgrades, they should pay for them.

If their team wasn't playing in the arena, there would be less demand for naming and pouring rights. Works both directions. The owners invested $350,000,000.00 in the team, why should they buy the arena when the can lease it. They are paying for the lease. The same as an oil company buying mineral lease rights, they down own the mineral rights, but they lease and produce from them on a shared fractional basis.

[OKCisOK4me]

Quite a few: All three Texas NBA arenas, Miami, Cleveland, Charlotte, New Orleans...

Alright, including us, 8 outta 30 is still almost only 1/3 of the league.

why should a owner pay to improve an arena that they don't own? and why would the city not want to own there own arena

Ummmm, you tell me, I asked the question not to be rebutted with another question.

While it is common for there to be some taxpayer subsidy, the Oklahoman had an NBA database that broke it down and it was pretty evenly split with half receiving 50% to 100% and half receiving less than 50% to Zero. Even when broken down by percentages, like 85 to 100% and 0 to 15%, the numbers were fairly even.

Thanks for providing some kind of answer Larry.

[BoulderSooner]

While it is common for there to be some taxpayer subsidy, the Oklahoman had an NBA database that broke it down and it was pretty evenly split with half receiving 50% to 100% and half receiving less than 50% to Zero. Even when broken down by percentages, like 85 to 100% and 0 to 15%, the numbers were fairly even.


By the same token, why should they get revenue from a building they don't own (naming rights, pouring rights etc)? If they want that money they should invest in the building. If they want upgrades, they should pay for them.

if the city doesn't want the team they could have not made that deal ... but the owners have a product (nba 30 teams) that is scarce and the city thought it was a great deal to get them here .. (as did the residents with the arena vote)

[BoulderSooner]

While it is common for there to be some taxpayer subsidy, the Oklahoman had an NBA database that broke it down and it was pretty evenly split with half receiving 50% to 100% and half receiving less than 50% to Zero. Even when broken down by percentages, like 85 to 100% and 0 to 15%, the numbers were fairly even.

in lots of those cases ... Arlington for example .. the city provide millions of dollars for instructor around cowboys stadium .. and they have 0 control of the stadium not sure i would say that is a better deal ..

[betts]

Also, we're a small market. I don't think that can be stressed enough. We want to have a winning team as much as anyone, but our owners don't get $100 million television contracts like they do in LA, Chicago and New York. We don't have multiple Fortune 500 companies in our city as potential sponsors. And yet, we have to pay our players on the same scale as the major markets. So, our owners risk operating in the red every year just to keep a competitive team. I think, as a small market, we have to subsidize our team more than a bigger market if we want to have one.

[OKCisOK4me]

That is an amazing answer. Thank you so much for not responding back to my original question with another question, Betts!

[Oil Capital]

Quite a few: All three Texas NBA arenas, Miami, Cleveland, Charlotte, New Orleans...

Alright, including us, 8 outta 30 is still almost only 1/3 of the league.

I did not mean to give the impression that only 8 were owned by the cities or states.

Add Memphis, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Orlando, Atlanta, and Oakland (Golden State). In addition, the Kings are trying to get public financing of a new arena in Sacramento.

So, not counting the Kings, that is 16 out of 30 NBA teams that play in publicly-owned arenas.

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, heck, that's half the league. Thank you for your informative answer, Oil Capital. Truly not being sarcastic this time

[Snowman]

I did not mean to give the impression that only 8 were owned by the cities or states.

Add Memphis, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Orlando, Atlanta, and Oakland (Golden State). In addition, the Kings are trying to get public financing of a new arena in Sacramento.

So, not counting the Kings, that is 16 out of 30 NBA teams that play in publicly-owned arenas.

Milwaukee's may be publicly owned and maintained but the funds to build it were a donation to the state from an individual.

[king183]

We're a little more than a month away from the NBA preseason. Is this new entrance going to be finished and the surrounding construction (e.g., the old I-40) going to be completed and cleaned up by then?

[betts]

They've landscaped the new front of the arena and are cleaning it up. The old I-40 will be scraped by then, but it will be raw land I suspect.

[jn1780]

We're a little more than a month away from the NBA preseason. Is this new entrance going to be finished and the surrounding construction (e.g., the old I-40) going to be completed and cleaned up by then?

Its pretty much done now except for some site cleanup. I see no reason why I-40 wouldn't be completely down by then.

Edit: Lol, Betts beat me so I will add this: Next season we will see the boulevard under construction in front of it and they may be still building the railroad bridge next to Shields.

[Oil Capital]

Milwaukee's may be publicly owned and maintained but the funds to build it were a donation to the state from an individual.

On the other side, my list also does not include arenas that were built and owned privately but received large public subsidies (eg, the new arena in Brooklyn... Approximately $200 Million in subsidies.)

[therondo]

Any chance someone would be willing to take some pics in the near future (once they have got the landscaping and clean up nearly finished)?

[Pete]

This is from about a week ago:

[Rover]

One thing I don't like is the orientation. I know the new entrance is where it has to be, but in the national telecasts, when they are showing the Arena front they won't have any real skyline in the background and it will seem like it is the only building downtown. To get the skyline in they will have to show it from an odd angle from the southeast.

[CaptDave]

Maybe move to camera position to the east and shoot in a NNW direction? I think that would capture the arena entrance, Chesapeake signage, and skyline.

I must say the lighting in that photograph makes the arena look pretty good. The colors work well together.