Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[LakeEffect]

I couldn't imagine driving to DFW just to save money on airfare. The time cost alone is a deal breaker for me.

The time sucked, but with parking and a hotel figured in, I still saved almost $350 for my family last year. Saving another $300 this fall doing the same. I don't like it, but I can't pass up that type of savings when money is tight.

[HangryHippo]

I fly internationally only about three times a year, but each time, I depart from Dallas because it's so much cheaper and without and the myriad of connections required from OKC. Domestically, I do most of my flying from here in OKC, but there's just too much savings and convenience when leaving from Dallas that I can't not do it.

[AAC2005]

Easiest question of the day:

What is the model of the FedEx plane that flies into WRWA? I'm presuming that it's an Airbus, but the way it lumbers in for landing, it looks much bigger than a 737-style plane.

(Oh, the things I think about while stuck in I-44 traffic!)

[CaptDave]

767?

[GoThunder]

767?

No plane that big flies into WRWA on a regular basis. The FedEx plane is an Airbus A310.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1472

I believe the biggest plane that flies in/out of OKC (diversions excluded) is a B757, which UPS uses.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS734

[catch22]

A310 is larger than a 757.

[venture]

FedEx goes between the A310 and A300 depending on load requirements.

As far as size of aircraft. The A310 is a wide body whereas the 757 is a narrowbody. Both I believe still operate as "heavies" as far as ATC is concerned (I think the 757 is more because of wing tip vorticies). However, the 757-200 which UPS operates in is about 2 feet longer than the A310, but the A310 cabin is about 7ft wider. The A310 also has a higher MTOW (max takeoff weight) of 312k lbs, versus the 757 which as 255k lbs. So depending on how you look at it, the A310 is bigger. The A310 is actually more comparable to the 767-200 than the 757.

[GoThunder]

FedEx goes between the A310 and A300 depending on load requirements.

As far as size of aircraft. The A310 is a wide body whereas the 757 is a narrowbody. Both I believe still operate as "heavies" as far as ATC is concerned (I think the 757 is more because of wing tip vorticies). However, the 757-200 which UPS operates in is about 2 feet longer than the A310, but the A310 cabin is about 7ft wider. The A310 also has a higher MTOW (max takeoff weight) of 312k lbs, versus the 757 which as 255k lbs. So depending on how you look at it, the A310 is bigger. The A310 is actually more comparable to the 767-200 than the 757.

I stand corrected. My apologies, I mistakingly put the A310 in the (narrow-body) A320 family.

On a different topic, what are the chances OKC gets more service to the NYC area in the next 5-10 years. It would be great to have an option to go from OKC-JFK in order to expand our international options.

[venture]

I stand corrected. My apologies, I mistakingly put the A310 in the (narrow-body) A320 family.

On a different topic, what are the chances OKC gets more service to the NYC area in the next 5-10 years. It would be great to have an option to go from OKC-JFK in order to expand our international options.

Put up a paper with numbers from 1 to 100 and throw a dart...that'll give you your percentage chance.

NYC still is not a Top 10 market with it comes to O&D and has never gone back to 2 flights a day. There is a chance we could see DL or AA add service to either LGA or JFK at some point, but I'm not holding my breath. Right now outside of getting JetBlue to fly to OKC, I see the nonstop market to New York being pretty flat. Of course if you can predict what is going to happen in this industry more than a few months out, you are pretty good.

[rayhurst]

As an AA EXP, I would love to see a Jetblue flight to JFK that I could interline to Europe. Or even an AA flight LGA would help vs. UA to EWR which is ridiculously expensive at times. The more competition and choices the better.

[damonsmuz]

The airline industry is going through what I feel is a very unique transition period. The business model is quite different from what it was even a decade ago. Years from now we'll look back and think "remember when we had XX number of airlines" at OKC. I believe the airlines have done enough research at every airport and feel that what OKC has is about as good as it can get right now. If an airline saw there being a potential for profit here, trust me, they'd jump all over it.

That's just my .02$.

The only area I see that "could" perhaps have a chance of starting up here would be someone flying us to the Pacific NW. But, for now, that may be years from happening.

[Bellaboo]

This could be a fuel saving break through for air travel...


http://link.brightcove.com/services/...=1317928787001

[OUman]

A note about the 757 and it being a "heavy"-as venture said it's considered a heavy purely for wake turbulence separation. It doesn't have an official "heavy" designation like the 310 or the 767. The 757 has particularly dangerous wake turbulence because of its airfoil shape-which is a supercritical airfoil. There are plenty of resources on this material in books and on the web. Also, the lack of any separaton between the aileron and the edge of the wing flaps on such a wing also contributes to this phenomenon, as this video shows.

[BG918]

Speaking of 757's, I was at DEN recently and noticed United had a 757 flying non-stop to...Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I couldn't figure out why...tourists going to Yellowstone? It was on a Sunday afternoon.

[Snowman]

Speaking of 757's, I was at DEN recently and noticed United had a 757 flying non-stop to...Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I couldn't figure out why...tourists going to Yellowstone? It was on a Sunday afternoon.

That, skiing and a couple other large national parks in the area, most of their flights are seasonal

[venture]

That, skiing and a couple other large national parks in the area, most of their flights are seasonal

This is exactly why. Vale, Steamboat Springs, and other smaller resort towns in the Rockies get mainline service this time of year through early Spring.

[damonsmuz]

Speaking of 757s into resort towns, having flown into KJAC a number of times on a 757... I would highly suggest putting it on your bucket list of things to do if you're an aviation nerd like many of us are. The power of the engines on an incredibly short runway are very exciting.

[ljbab728]

Speaking of 757s into resort towns, having flown into KJAC a number of times on a 757... I would highly suggest putting it on your bucket list of things to do if you're an aviation nerd like many of us are. The power of the engines on an incredibly short runway are very exciting.

Would that require getting some sort of pilot's license first?

[damonsmuz]

ljbab: Naw. no pilots license is necessary, AA, DL and UA all fly into KJAC at some point during the year in a 757. Find an empty seat on any flight and enjoy. However, if you have the time and patience to fly a 757 into KJAC, then go right ahead and fly one in yourself. Though, I feel that by the time you're in line to actually pilot one of those, the 757 may be no more. Sad really, she's the perfect plane to fly into short runway towns or high altitude. Ive linked video below for those have not had the enjoyment to listen to the engines really roar. Im thinking we should have a new thread dedicated to airplane landings and take offs in Oklahoma airports. Commercial or general aviation.

JacksonHole2009 757 take off - YouTube

[OUman]

There are a whole lot of videos for OKC on Youtube, just type "takeoff oklahoma city" or "landing oklahoma city" on Youtube and you'll get plenty.

As for the 757 (both 200 and 300), they will be around for at least 5 more years or so before the fleet starts getting too old to be flown, but there has been a renewed interest shown recently in at least studying an aircraft replacement for the 757.

[damonsmuz]

OUman, yes, you can find lots of videos on youtube..I was referring to our own landings and take offs being uploaded... And, not just commercial landings, but GA ones too. Cheers!

[OUman]

Ahh ok, yeah that would be cool.

[damonsmuz]

Skywest Airlines announced that they have reached an agreement to provide flights for American Eagle using 50 seaters, aka ... CRJ-200's out of LAX and D/FW

These will replace the ERJ-140'S.

Im guessing Lawton may be in line to see some of these. In another tidbit, I see Skywest also signed an agreement to fly for USAirways. Hmm..let's the rumormill start on this one... American Eagle and USAirways both in a codeshare agreement. I know it probably means nothing since Skywest flies for just about anyone, but still.... hmmmm

[venture]

Skywest Airlines announced that they have reached an agreement to provide flights for American Eagle using 50 seaters, aka ... CRJ-200's out of LAX and D/FW

These will replace the ERJ-140'S.

Im guessing Lawton may be in line to see some of these. In another tidbit, I see Skywest also signed an agreement to fly for USAirways. Hmm..let's the rumormill start on this one... American Eagle and USAirways both in a codeshare agreement. I know it probably means nothing since Skywest flies for just about anyone, but still.... hmmmm

Its only a matter of time before US/AA merge. Then we'll have the "prophecy" fulfilled of just 3 large major airlines plus Southwest to control the market. Yeah there are the other guys like JetBlue, Virgin, Allegiant, Spirit and Froniter...but nothing like what we use to have.

The OO (SkyWest) deal for Eagle is a good one. The big one will be the awarding of over 220 additional large RJs for flying under the American Eagle banner. This is going to be huge in getting markets that should be with 70+ seaters up to snuff. Though you have to wonder just how much longer the 50 seaters can hold on. The ERJ-135s are all but dead...now the -140s are next in line. I'm pretty sure DL already parked all of the old CRJ-440s that Comair and Mesaba use to operate. Then of course the DorkJet rocket ship is already out to pasture. It will just be nice to finally see larger jets put into slot controlled markets to increase capacity instead of trying to cram in more 50 seaters.

[HangryHippo]

Do you think an AA/US merger means increased east coast service from OKC or will they continue to funnel us through Dallas and Chicago?