Preftakes Block

[Spartan]

Well, I heard it's available for lease. I guess just not lease renewals. Hmmm...

[Popsy]

Popsy, I think Pete might mean that in terms of a demolition proposition. Because the building belongs to the city and is currently in use by the city, that might have implications.

You might try re-reading my post as what you had to say made no sense.

[Pete]

Pete, you have stated with conviction several times that building 4, the city offices, are not going anywhere. Have you ever considered that the City would sell that property if offered enough money to enable them to build a bigger and more energy efficient building in another location? The entity Preftakes is fronting for seems to have the money to pay the price if they want it bad enough.

He already owns most that block and has plenty of room to build a tower, parking structure and more.

He would have to pay a ton of money for that building only to tear it down (if that was even allowed) to get a relatively small piece of land. And still, he doesn't own the two properties immediately west of that anyway.

Of course everything discussed here is pure conjecture but I don't think it would make business sense and I also don't think the city would ever sell that historical building for the purpose of demolition.

[Pete]

With the $2 million purchase of the bus station (thread here) this is the updated ownership map for Preftakes & Company. The properties shaded in color and bolded are the ones he owns:

[Pete]

Here's a more current aerial (Pretakes properties shown in yellow):

[Pete]

So, the Lunch Box is now shuttered and the word on the street is the Preftakes bought out the owners in order to shut it down.

And even though Precor/Ruffin list all the highlighted properties for lease, there has been absolutely no attempt to tidy them up and get them ready for the market. And certainly, no new leases have been signed in quite some time.

I suspect something big is getting ready to break here, as it seems they have acquired all the properties they can, the Lunch Box is gone and so soon will be the bus service.

And of course, a big new city-owned garage is going in just north of this property and the Stage Center to the south will certainly be redeveloped soon.

[Teo9969]

So, the Lunch Box is now shuttered and the word on the street is the Preftakes bought out the owners in order to shut it down.

And even though Precor/Ruffin list all the highlighted properties for lease, there has been absolutely no attempt to tidy them up and get them ready for the market. And certainly, no new leases have been signed in quite some time.

I suspect something big is getting ready to break here, as it seems they have acquired all the properties they can, the Lunch Box is gone and so soon will be the bus service.

And of course, a big new city-owned garage is going in just north of this property and the Stage Center to the south will certainly be redeveloped soon.

Maybe we'll just tear it all down and build a nice grassy meadow in the heart of downtown . I vote for fescue!

[HangryHippo]

Is Preftakes going to demolish this block?

[Pete]

There would be tremendous resistance to demolishing anything other than the old Lunch Box structures.

However, in order to justify has $15+ million investment, he can't merely just lease out the space that is there.

I would expect some sort of compromise, where he demolished some and integrated the rest into the development plans.

[kevinpate]

Is Preftakes going to demolish this block?

Whatever happens, it isn't likely to be the entire block. There are city offices, Coney Island and Pizza Town on the north side of that block and those are not part of what Preftakes has acquired over time.

[G.Walker]

Who knows what is going happen...I have never seen a city so secretive about big developments as Oklahoma City, I just don't get it...

[HangryHippo]

Not to be all cynical, but since when has resistance lately led to significant change to a project? If it makes strong financial sense to tear this block down, a la Sandridge et al, then I suspect they will get it approved.

It seemed slightly foolish to be asking that at first, but what you've said was my exact thought as to why it might not be all that outlandish to think demolition is what Preftakes might have in store.

[Teo9969]

I would hope that anything over 5 stories is off-limits...you could fit a heck of a structure on the bus station site alone. Not to mention the parcels just to its north and east.

[Urbanized]

Who knows what is going happen...I have never seen a city so secretive about big developments as Oklahoma City, I just don't get it...

Pardon my ignorance regarding your background, but what experience with development in other cities do you have to compare OKC to? My experience (which is admittedly only related to OKC) is that REAL development (big or small) tends to stay quiet during planning phases so that the developer(s) can get ducks in a row, including financing, which can of course make or break a project. To some extent that quiet period before a development becomes public is probably so that potential roadblocks and/or opportunities can be studied and planned for.

Most likely a very large number of projects go through significant exploration before being scrapped due to practicality, market research, or financing. Most real and competent developers would I'm sure hate the idea of a large project they are exploring being made public and then having to abandon the idea for the reasons mentioned above. Whether or not they made a good decision would be immaterial to the public, who would just judge it as a "failed" project.

The other side of the coin (in my experience and recollection) is that the noisier a development is, the less likely it is to happen. Lots of public pimping of a project is often actually a fishing expedition for investors or is sometimes an attempt to use PR to ram a shaky project through.

Development (especially on a large scale) is far more complex than most people understand.

[BoulderSooner]

i could see every building he owns on the block be leveled .. except for 1 north hudson

[Pete]

i could see every building he owns on the block be leveled .. except for 1 north hudson

Yep.

Hopefully that doesn't come to pass but it's a distinct possibility, especially given the huge amount already invested.

[onthestrip]

Pardon my ignorance regarding your background, but what experience with development in other cities do you have to compare OKC to? My experience (which is admittedly only related to OKC) is that REAL development (big or small) tends to stay quiet during planning phases so that the developer(s) can get ducks in a row, including financing, which can of course make or break a project. To some extent that quiet period before a development becomes public is probably so that potential roadblocks and/or opportunities can be studied and planned for.

Most likely a very large number of projects go through significant exploration before being scrapped due to practicality, market research, or financing. Most real and competent developers would I'm sure hate the idea of a large project they are exploring being made public and then having to abandon the idea for the reasons mentioned above. Whether or not they made a good decision would be immaterial to the public, who would just judge it as a "failed" project.

The other side of the coin (in my experience and recollection) is that the noisier a development is, the less likely it is to happen. Lots of public pimping of a project is often actually a fishing expedition for investors or is sometimes an attempt to use PR to ram a shaky project through.

Development (especially on a large scale) is far more complex than most people understand.

This

[onthestrip]

I would hope that anything over 5 stories is off-limits...you could fit a heck of a structure on the bus station site alone. Not to mention the parcels just to its north and east.

This is downtown. Why should there be a building heighth limit? Makes even less sense when you see that its across the street from the regions tallest tower.

[Bellaboo]

This is downtown. Why should there be a building heighth limit? Makes even less sense when you see that its across the street from the regions tallest tower.

I think he's talking about demolition of Preftakes properties......

[Pete]

Development (especially on a large scale) is far more complex than most people understand.

And ESPECIALY when you are dealing with downtown projects and tons of smaller properties, older buildings and a million other challenges.


I'm as bad as anyone about wanting to see things get done, but I've been around commercial real estate enough to understand the massive complexities that enter into even what appear to be relatively straight-forward projects.

I can also assure you that developers by nature are get-things-done people. They live to build and see things finished. This is very different than investors or speculators who often buy and sit on buildings... But those who have a track record of finishing developments are a rare breed and are driven by the desire to make things happen.

[Teo9969]

If he doesn't own parcel 62 (and I'm not sure whether or not he even could), and wouldn't level 1-3, then it would seem that a contiguous development would be unrealistic.

However, if he does choose to level all but 1 N. Hudson, then I would think he would have a very distinct purpose for them. Why would he level 17 N. Hudson though?

[metro]

This is downtown. Why should there be a building heighth limit? Makes even less sense when you see that its across the street from the regions tallest tower.

If you re-read his post, he was talking for demolition, not construction.

[soonerguru]

And ESPECIALY when you are dealing with downtown projects and tons of smaller properties, older buildings and a million other challenges.


I'm as bad as anyone about wanting to see things get done, but I've been around commercial real estate enough to understand the massive complexities that enter into even what appear to be relatively straight-forward projects.

I can also assure you that developers by nature are get-things-done people. They live to build and see things finished. This is very different than investors or speculators who often buy and sit on buildings... But those who have a track record of finishing developments are a rare breed and are driven by the desire to make things happen.

Good point. Question: what has Preftakes completed? I know he did the Garage Lofts and a couple of things in Auto Alley, if I remember correctly. Maybe a bldg. or two in Bricktown. Not dogging the guy, but he seems to have done a lot more "buy and sit" than "get things done" unless I'm overlooking something.

[Urbanized]

http://precorruffin.com/projects

I believe Nick also has had quite a few investments in Iowa, where he has lived previously. I think in the past he has shifted his focus back and forth between the two markets during times when he felt more strongly about the development environment in one place or the other, just as he has shifted focus here back and forth between downtown and the suburbs as good opportunities arose. He is one of the original urban pioneers, investing in downtown when others laughed at him. The Garage Lofts were developed in '95, and other developers believed it was complete folly. He also has lived in the inner city for years.

Nick has a banking background, is very deliberate in his decision making process, and doesn't make many moves without thorough analysis. Though Nick is a strong personality, the impression I have gotten in conversations with him (I had quite a bit of business and a fair bit of social interaction with him a number of years ago and consider him a friend - meaning I'm always happy to run into him and he SEEMS happy to see me LOL) is that I don't believe he makes any business decisions based on emotion but rather cold analysis. Though I don't suppose I worked closely enough with him to consider him a mentor, some of the discussions we had stuck with me enough that I feel they strongly helped shape many of my ideas about commercial real estate, development, and retail location.

He's a wise individual and we're lucky to have him on the development scene here. Much of the same can be said about his business partner in many of his ventures, Mark Ruffin. If those guys move on a project it WILL be completed, and it WILL work.

[bombermwc]

It's increasingly difficult for me to look at this block and not think that a demo job is coming in the future. I can't think of any reason why someone would purposely try to buy up an entire block, other than to redevelop it into something else. It would be incredibly odd to buy it just to say you own that block rather than spreading your investments around to various plots downtown, or for that matter, around town. With a focus that narrow, there's obviously a plan in the works.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom any development plan that would go here though. It's an incredible expense if you plan to demo it all to build a highrise. There are much cheaper blocks in the area that have far less "height" to them already and would cost significantly less to take down to the ground IF that was your plan. So i'm somewhat sceptical on the demo at the same time. It's highly confusing and a bit frustrating. With what, 1 or 2 buildings left, the whole thing would be done. And we may find some deal in the works with the city building too.

I agree with you here that the city's building should not be allowed to be torn down. Whatever the plans are, that structure MUST stay intact.