Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[damonsmuz]

While I know many of us wanted access to all the DC airports..looking at the logisics made more sense for JAN. I think many Oklahomans wanted the DCA flight just to say we had access to a new airport in DC. But, the reality is that we do already have access to IAD and BWI. It''s not about access to a new airport, but rather access to a region. We have that area covered well.

I wouldn't say it's a HUGE blow for OKC.

Jackson still needs this I guess..so...good for them

[Bellaboo]

OKC remains a back bench city:
D.C. flight now permanent
US Airways had been offering stopgap service since March
7:04 PM, Jul. 24, 2012 | Comments

A A Thompson
Written by
Jeff Ayres



What has been a good July at Jackson-Medgar Wiley Evers International Airport got even better Tuesday.

Just two weeks after landing a daily nonstop flight to Chicago, airport officials learned what had been a temporary US Airways daily flight from Jackson to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Washington, D.C., will become permanent.

"It's significant for us and for the business community to have that direct access," said Dirk Vanderleest, CEO of the Jackson Municipal Airport Authority, which operates Jackson-Medgar Wiley Evers International Airport and Hawkins Field.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood notified 2nd District U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson Tuesday that the Jackson-to-D.C. flight would become permanent, according to a news release.

US Airways had been making the flight on a stopgap basis since March, replacing a daily flight Delta had offered since 2005.

Under Delta's agreement with the U.S. Department of Transportation, the airline couldn't sell or transfer the route if it stopped making the flight.

The federal government regained the route and then sought a new permanent carrier and/or destination.

"This flight will continue to benefit civic leaders, the business community, advocacy groups, schools and tourists throughout Central Mississippi," Thompson said in the release.

Duane O'Neill, president & CEO of the Greater Jackson Chamber Partnership, said in news release that nonstop service to the Reagan airport is " important to the economic future of our greater Jackson region.""This is a major victory considering our competition was Louisville, Kentucky and Oklahoma City."

U.S. Sen. Thad Cochran said the flight is important to the state as a whole. "Today's decision is good for passengers and for Mississippi as an economic development asset."

With Jackson at the heart of the state's government and business operations, it was essential to maintain a direct flight to Washington, D.C., so officials could easily interact with federal colleagues to "lobby for additional jobs and economic development," Vanderleest said.Average per-trip occupancy on US Airways has been 60 percent, he added, noting 45 percent typically is a minimum benchmark.

The airport earlier this month announced a daily United Airlines flight to Chicago's O'Hare International Airport. Those nonstop flights begin Nov. 4.

United flies non stop from OKC to Dulles daily, doesn't that count as the DC area ?

[venture]

Wow! this is a huge blow to OKC. Not really unexpected, but, to lose to a minor market like Jackson MS is discouraging. OKC and Oklahoma for that matter continue to suffer from a total lack of respect from movers and shakers in major markets. This is just plain bad, rationale is weak. Because it has been around for awhile? So why were the slots even being competed if they were profitable? Really sucks. As a Metro DC resident, this continues to make my home state one of the most difficult places to get to from the region

This pair of AIR 21 slots, which are market specific, were originally awarded to Delta in 2005 to operate JAN-DCA. Since Delta and US Airways did their big slot swap last year, DL pulled back on the majority of its flying out of DCA. It then went ahead to release the AIR 21 slots for JAN-DCA and US Airways offered to maintain the service until they were permanently awarded. So this is the award that will ensure the service doesn't end unless US Airways gives the slots back.

As far as showing support, there definitely wasn't nearly the level of public response to get this service was there was for Southwest's recent AUS-DCA award. That brought out huge numbers. This one just a few local/state dignitaries and that's it. That may have also played in this.

While I know many of us wanted access to all the DC airports..looking at the logisics made more sense for JAN. I think many Oklahomans wanted the DCA flight just to say we had access to a new airport in DC. But, the reality is that we do already have access to IAD and BWI. It''s not about access to a new airport, but rather access to a region. We have that area covered well.

I wouldn't say it's a HUGE blow for OKC.

Jackson still needs this I guess..so...good for them

I would have liked it because it would be increase connections on Southwest from other airports. That's more transiting passengers through OKC that would help fill up the flights some more. But yes, we already have the region covered with IAD and BWI, just not the close in airport of DCA.

[HangryHippo]

Well ****. We do have the region covered reasonably well, but that service to DCA would have been very nice. I hate having to come in from Dulles.

[dcsooner]

While I know many of us wanted access to all the DC airports..looking at the logisics made more sense for JAN. I think many Oklahomans wanted the DCA flight just to say we had access to a new airport in DC. But, the reality is that we do already have access to IAD and BWI. It''s not about access to a new airport, but rather access to a region. We have that area covered well.

I wouldn't say it's a HUGE blow for OKC.

Jackson still needs this I guess..so...good for them

If you lived in this region (NOVA) and had to drive to either IAD or BWI you would understand. The time to travel to BWI from my home is an hour + to IAD about 45m to 1 hour. This is huge in this area. DCA is right across from DC (drive time for me 30m max + metro rail access that neither Dulles (currently) or BWI have from NOVA) . the other two require travel of from 40 m to 1 hour+ after you land and await baggage. There is a reason these slots are coveted. Business people want convenience and great times. OKC has neither to the nations capital, I reiterate this is a huge blow, IMO.

[dcsooner]

United flies non stop from OKC to Dulles daily, doesn't that count as the DC area ?

At what price and what convenience (see my post above). Had OKC won this slot we would have been lauding it as a great win, but we lose and it's no big deal? go figure

[Bellaboo]

At what price and what convenience (see my post above). Had OKC won this slot we would have been lauding it as a great win, but we lose and it's no big deal? go figure

You kidding me ? I didn't even know a slot was available.....and I doubt 99% of the general public did or cared either.

[adaniel]

Wow! this is a huge blow to OKC. Not really unexpected, but, to lose to a minor market like Jackson MS is discouraging. OKC and Oklahoma for that matter continue to suffer from a total lack of respect from movers and shakers in major markets. This is just plain bad, rationale is weak. Because it has been around for awhile? So why were the slots even being competed if they were profitable? Really sucks. As a Metro DC resident, this continues to make my home state one of the most difficult places to get to from the region

Considering you pretty much detest OKC, you sure do have an itch to get here.

I would have liked it because it would be increase connections on Southwest from other airports. That's more transiting passengers through OKC that would help fill up the flights some more. But yes, we already have the region covered with IAD and BWI, just not the close in airport of DCA.

I agree. It would have been nice to get some extra passenger count to OKC but this is not the end of the world. A lot of people from here that do business in the Capitol Region do so in Fairfax/Loudon Counties, so its not like Dulles is super-inconvenient.

Also, a new METRO line is being constructed that will connect Dulles to Tysons and DC, although this is a few years off to say the least.

I personally would like if more connections to the western half of the country were made to WRWA. On my flight from DAL to ABQ last week I would vouch that about 1/3 of the flight were people from OKC.

[HangryHippo]

You kidding me ? I didn't even know a slot was available.....and I doubt 99% of the general public did or cared either.

It may not be a big deal to you, but to those of us who value our time and desire convenience, it was a big deal to miss out.

[Bellaboo]

It may not be a big deal to you, but to those of us who value our time and desire convenience, it was a big deal to miss out.

Like I said, 99% of the general public could gives a rats butt. I used to fly in to Reagan National years ago, been through BWI and IAD. Get stuck in traffic anywhere in that region and it's an inconvenience. It all depends on how regular a person makes the trip.

[damonsmuz]

If you lived in this region (NOVA) and had to drive to either IAD or BWI you would understand. The time to travel to BWI from my home is an hour + to IAD about 45m to 1 hour. This is huge in this area. DCA is right across from DC (drive time for me 30m max + metro rail access that neither Dulles (currently) or BWI have from NOVA) . the other two require travel of from 40 m to 1 hour+ after you land and await baggage. There is a reason these slots are coveted. Business people want convenience and great times. OKC has neither to the nations capital, I reiterate this is a huge blow, IMO.

Hey dcsooner: I actually know how you feel. I grew up in Fairfax and Prince William for about 22 years. So, flying into KDCA was always a major convenience to me. I still fly back there quite often and always choose DCA over IAD and BWI. The only reason I choose DCA is likely the same reason you do, it's easy to get in and out of. BWI and IAD are kinda far. But, my reasoning for me to choose DCA over the others is strictly for pleasure (seeing family and the fun approach). I can still get to the airport, I just have to connect. I don't have to fly into DCA, but, I choose to. If I don't want to, I can choose the "other" airports that still have access to the region.

So, while I am sad that DCA didn't win, the fact that we didn't get the airport is not, IMHO, a HUGE blow. Sure, it stinks, but, I can think of other "huge blows" that would impact OKC than not getting a non-stop to DCA. Removing AA mainline from OKC and taking regionals, that's a HUGE blow. Removing SLC on Delta, that's a HUGE blow. Not getting DCA because it's convenient to getting to the monuments,closer to home, etc is not a "huge blow" to OKC. Cheers!

[soonerliberal]

DCA is no less than 20 miles closer to any point in DC than the other two airports, which means 30 to 2 hours difference depending on the time of day flying in. In fact, it is frequently faster overall to do a one-stop flight from DCA through Memphis or Chicago than a direct one from BWI or IAD when you include the travel time to the airport and the layout of the airports themselves.

Do not understate the power of congressional influence. Bennie Thompson is the ranking Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee and has significant influence elsewhere in Congress. Unfortunately, OK's delegation doesn't have much influence (outside of Frank Lucas on Agriculture).

[PennyQuilts]

OKC has little to no political clout. Oklahoma is a back bench State/ This route will likely stay with USAIR. The economics are clear but we fail in the area of influence

Dunno, DC. OKC is a big area for FAA and their vast training classes and there is a lot of going back and forth between DC and OKC as a result. With more people commuting, I think the clout might shift.

I agree with those in later posts who said that going into DC vs. Dulles or BWI is much more than just bragging rights. BWI not so bad because Maryland seems to have it a bit more together in terms of mass trans but the trek between Dulles and DC (and everywhere else) is a fistfight adding hours to your commute. DCA is a fantastic place to land/take off if you need to get to a meeting in DC and then want to get the h*ll out of Dodge.

[PennyQuilts]

DCA is no less than 20 miles closer to any point in DC than the other two airports, which means 30 to 2 hours difference depending on the time of day flying in. In fact, it is frequently faster overall to do a one-stop flight from DCA through Memphis or Chicago than a direct one from BWI or IAD when you include the travel time to the airport and the layout of the airports themselves.

Do not understate the power of congressional influence. Bennie Thompson is the ranking Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee and has significant influence elsewhere in Congress. Unfortunately, OK's delegation doesn't have much influence (outside of Frank Lucas on Agriculture).

This.

[BG918]

Jackson over OKC? That's interesting.

Curious, how many other "big league" cities have DCA slots?

[venture]

These are all the DCA nonstop cities offered by the various airlines there:

[damonsmuz]

Was looking at flights in January 2013 and saw United is sending us a lot of "prop love". Just about all but 1 flight a day to DEN are on a Q400.

[OUman]

^Ouch, a flight that takes an hr and 20 in a jet now with a prop. Most of these are actually ex-Colgan, and I'm not sure if this is a Q400 problem or just a Colgan maintenance problem but I flew Colgan's Q400s last year OKC-IAH-OKC. The entire cabin vibrated continuously while in-flight, and it was way too loud, a continuous drone in-flight as well. Once was enough, and this coming from someone who likes flying and planes in general. I'll take the ATR over the Q400 anyday though, larger overhead bins in which you can store roller carryons and it sounds much more like a jet. I'll admit though it's a good move by UA Express to cut costs, the larger turboprops are way more fuel-efficient than the RJs for such distances.

[venture]

Was looking at flights in January 2013 and saw United is sending us a lot of "prop love". Just about all but 1 flight a day to DEN are on a Q400.

Change over starts next month I believe.

^Ouch, a flight that takes an hr and 20 in a jet now with a prop. Most of these are actually ex-Colgan, and I'm not sure if this is a Q400 problem or just a Colgan maintenance problem but I flew Colgan's Q400s last year OKC-IAH-OKC. The entire cabin vibrated continuously while in-flight, and it was way too loud, a continuous drone in-flight as well. Once was enough, and this coming from someone who likes flying and planes in general. I'll take the ATR over the Q400 anyday though, larger overhead bins in which you can store roller carryons and it sounds much more like a jet. I'll admit though it's a good move by UA Express to cut costs, the larger turboprops are way more fuel-efficient than the RJs for such distances.

At least the Q400 speed will be comparable to the RJs currently flying the route. The other good thing, this is a capacity increase for OKC and like you said it will lower the cost of the trip. As far as the in flight experience, sounds like something was out of sync with the anti-vibration and noise dampeners not functioning properly. I see Republic as a more stand up operation and hopefully they'll do better than Colgan.

[brianinok]

How can that be considered a capacity increase when now we have 3 mainline and 2 RJs on the route on United? I just checked January and saw no mainline, one RJs, and some props. At least we still have mainline on Southwest and Frontier, though I like United better.

[venture]

How can that be considered a capacity increase when now we have 3 mainline and 2 RJs on the route on United? I just checked January and saw no mainline, one RJs, and some props. At least we still have mainline on Southwest and Frontier, though I like United better.

The change over the Q400s looks like it is in October. I didn't realize they put in more mainline equipment here recently. Last I looked (about a month ago) we were sitting at 4 RJs and 1 A320.

Looks like in November UA is going down to just 4 daily flights as well...so yeah, I take back my capacity increase comment. They are definitely dumping capacity out of OKC it appears.

[HangryHippo]

Why don't we see increased air service? Is it a lack of political clout, is it that we split meager numbers between here and Tulsa, is it people traveling through DFW, little corporate travel?

[chrisok]

Looks like we are getting back a mainline (Airbus) to IAH. There's been a lot of talk about moving the Airbus fleet to Houston and sending more 737s to Denver. Looks like that may be happening.

[HangryHippo]

Why would United do that? Perhaps maintenance streamlining at the facilities?

[chrisok]

From what I understand, there are economical benefits to the 737 in the higher altitudes, especially in the summer. On another note, there's a lot of speculation out there that UA is looking to move some traffic out of Houston in favor of other hubs (Denver in particular) as retribution to the city of Houston for allowing Southwest to start international travel out of Hobby.