First National Center

[Pete]

The idea of converting some of all of the Center and East buildings to parking has been around for quite a while.

But the only way it makes any sense is if it was coupled with a significant renovation of the tower. Without that firm, pre-funded assurance, the rest of the complex should not be sub-divided or any part demolished.

Center Buildiing:



East Building:

[soonerguru]

Was this one of the "exciting announcements" rumored by Roy Williams at the last Council meeting? Consider me not excited.

[Just the facts]

UP - the office space for this is class C - at best, and most of it isn't occupied by anyone. The streetcar will be great, but you already have to be downtown to use it. Right now there is no way to get people downtown without them driving their own car. This parking garage is sandwiched between both couplets of the streetcar route and will include ground floor retail. Hopefully that retail will now be directed to the sidewalk instead of the interior ConnCourse. In the past, lack of parking has been cited as the biggest hurdles to converting City Place and FNC to residnetial/hotel. This eliminates that hurdle. Maybe that just gets us to the next hurdle, but who knows, sooner or later the finish line has to come.

[Just the facts]

No part of the ornate ground floor extends into these sections, correct?

Correct. They are related to the tower in name only.

[Pete]

I would be very excited if the parking conversion meant the tower was definitely going to be restored and renovated to a glorious new hotel and/or living units.

As it stands, FNC is the last remaining big hole in a revitalized downtown, not to mention an incredible waste of one of the greatest resources in the state.

[BoulderSooner]

100% agree with pete on this

[Pete]

Although the northern and eastern facades for these two buildings don't look too horrible (that part of the Center Building needs some serious TLC) the southern exposure and the one most seen in any photographs or aerial shots is hideous:

[CuatrodeMayo]

I would like this:

[city]

A presentation on behalf of an unspecified developer on an unspecified project in the midst of an unspecified deal just doesn't sound as good as one would think. That said, there is no way anything could be worse than 1) Yash, 2) never-ending receivership, or 3) how unspecifiedX3 sounds. I'm anxious to hear details over this, particularly what kind of a parking structure we'd be talking about. Are two 14-story structures needed for parking for a building that is really not that big (the tower)?

But it sounds pretty ambitious for a suburban warehouse developer.

[Just the facts]

I wonder how much verticle height we are going to lose. These buildings are now 14 stories and this parking garage has about the same number of spaces and footprint of the new Main St/City Hall garage which is going to be 7 stories before they add the housing.

[Pete]

^

Love that idea but I don't think that would be nearly enough parking. There is virtually no available parking downtown right now and that building is about 2/3 empty.


Whatever happens, there should be careful and deliberate consideration by the Downtown Design Review Committee, OCURA and any other city body that may be involved.

I would rather this property sit vacant another 20 years than to f it up yet again.


Remember, dividing ownership from the parking garage directly south is what caused this problem in the first place, and decades later everything is still a big mess.

[Steve]

But it sounds pretty ambitious for a suburban warehouse developer.

Hmmmm.... city, no one in this thread identified the person as a "suburban warehouse developer." Yet you know the man's name and track record, don't ya?

[Urban Pioneer]

I don't disagree about the tower conversion necessitating parking if it is residential, hotel, or both. I could buy into that. But I cannot support parking for the sake of parking.

Class C office space can nearly always be renovated to at least B quality. But there are support opportunities directly north and directly south, on the streetcar line, for garage development to enable a viable renovation of the existing, or demolition and construction of a replacement urban structure.

It may the "last great blight", but I would rather wait for the best deal possible. Why are we in such a rush to support demo/garages?

[Just the facts]

Check out the parking garage at 200 North Tampa St, Tampa. Would you be 'unhappy' with something like that?

[Pete]

Here's what I would like to see happen:

1. Capmark takes back the building today and finally pries Milbank's hands off the complex's throat
2. Cathy O'Connor & the Economic Development Trust partners with Capmark to market the property at a realistic price, with some TIF and other incentives
3. No incentives unless specific requirements are met, namely complete renovation of the Tower

The absolute worst thing would be Yashouafar flogging off pieces just to keep his head above water while he's sitting in prison and shifting money from property to property to stave off about a dozen foreclosures.

[ChaseDweller]

The absolute worst thing would be Yashouafar flogging off pieces just to keep his head above water while he's sitting in prison and shifting money from property to property to stave off about a dozen foreclosures.

It's a little different, but it would be much like what happened to the Skirvin when it was owned by Sapta. It would just sit there and deteriorate.

[Bailey80]

But it sounds pretty ambitious for a suburban warehouse developer.

You know something we don't?

[Skyline]

But it sounds pretty ambitious for a suburban warehouse developer.

There is only one suburban warehouse developer that I know that could pull this off.

Okc the City of mystery towers and mystery buyers.... The City of Mystery!

[Just the facts]

There is only one suburban warehouse developer that I know that could pull this off.

Okc the City of mystery towers and mystery buyers.... The City of Mystery!

The Mystery City - that has a nice ring to it. People will ask why it is called that, and you can reply, it's a secret.

[metro]

There is only one suburban warehouse developer that I know that could pull this off.

Okc the City of mystery towers and mystery buyers.... The City of Mystery!

Tanenbaum? He also has a history of renovating dilapidated downtown structures into housing.

[Pete]

Tanenbaum is sitting on tons of cash due to the recent $77 million sale of the Lincoln at Central Park apartments.

He probably has to do something with all those proceeds to avoid a big capital gains tax hit, and of course he is also taking a hard run at Lincoln Plaza, developing apartments on I-240 near Tinker, and adding living units to the Montgomery.

[Architect2010]

Count me with Urban Pioneer. I don't see the need to demolish or get rid of the East building and add an entrance to a parking garage off Broadway. I feel like by the time we're done with Downtown, every other building is going to be a damned parking garage (And only two or three are going to have any groundfloor interaction with the street!). If you're going to build one here, I say tear down the HIDEOUS center buildings, keep the east building and the tower on the west side and wedge the parking garage in between those two. Oh, and I say that the parking garage should be required to have ground-floor retail. I'd be mighty upset if parking spaces were allowed to replace office and retail street frontage on two of our most impressive streets, Broadway and Park Avenues. It would be a shame.

I don't know why, but this "plan" scares me. I'll hold judgement until the plans are officially released.

[lasomeday]

The problem with their proposal is the only parts of the building worth anything is the east side. I have been in all of both buildings and the eastside is the only side that has been renovated. That is the part they want to turn into a parking garage? It would be nice if they looked at the buildings before they decide to tear them apart!

[Spartan]

I don't think we have enough to nibble on, except that one thing has become clear: The FNC situation has not yet hit rock bottom. It could get worse. The building's outlook could look much worse than it does today, where Cafe7 has kept the corner of Park and Robinson pretty busy the last two weeks, and the future shows diverse possibilities for the complex.

Splitting up ownership of the block. A huge parking structure lining half of Park Avenue. Demolition of the east building. All of this shrouded in mystery.

I hope Don Beck is getting compensated handsomely, because so far, he's the only real name attached to this.. and Steve is right that this deal could make some professionals very unpopular.. and I think a lot of people have instantly gotten very nervous about First National.

Those are all the thoughts I have after giving it a day to ponder. That said, I really hope it ends up for the best. I hope that ownership of the entire center remains consolidated and it would definitely be a good, worthwhile endeavor to replace the annex building with attached parking. But wouldn't it be easier to just purchase the Main Street Parking Garage (with all of its existing linkages to the FNC)??

(Oh and yes, I believe that the First National Arcade spans Robinson all the way to Broadway. I could be wrong, but last time I was in there looking for a bathroom on the ground level, the only one was as far east as you could go right in front a set of outside doors. What Don Beck is suggesting sounds an awful lot like the majority of the arcade is also "unspecified")

[Pete]

The Aug. 17th deadline for Milbank to come up with the $12 million has come and gone.

Capmark swore there would be no more extensions but perhaps that's exactly what has happened.