More on the Florida Marlins stunt

[Patrick]

The more Mary Fallin speaks, the more idiotic she sounds. Why did she bother writing the letter, if she had no plan for a stadium to be built? Sounds to me like if we put a package together to build a stadium, we might have a good chance at getting the Marlins here. What's the hold up people? If we want a major league baseball team, we just need to fork over the money for a stadium. If we don't want an MLB team, we shouldn't have written a letter to them to begin with.



State not trying to lure Marlins, Fallin says

By Michael McNutt
The Oklahoman

Oklahoma is not taking the bait of building a new stadium estimated to cost at least $350 million to entice the Florida Marlins to Oklahoma City, Lt. Gov. Mary Fallin said Thursday.


Instead, the state will spend its energy to keep the National Basketball Association's Hornets, she said.

"There are several investors that are looking at trying to finance their stay," Fallin said.

Fallin said she sent a letter this week to the Marlins stating Oklahoma is taking itself out of the running as a possible home for the National League baseball franchise.

Her correspondence was a response to a letter sent last month by Marlins Vice Chairman Joel A. Mael, who wrote that the team -- before taking a more serious look at Oklahoma City -- would need to see a financial plan to pay for a new stadium.

"We cannot tell you the exact cost of a new stadium in Oklahoma City, but please assume it will be no less than $350 million," Mael wrote.

Mael also wrote that improvements to meet Major League Baseball requirements would have to be made to the 13,000-seat AT&T Bricktown Ballpark, home of the Oklahoma RedHawks, where the Marlins would play until a new stadium would be available.

The Marlins proposed a new 38,700-seat stadium that would have 69 suites and would include a stadium club, a sports bar restaurant and a parking lot with 15,000 spaces.

Baseball officials late last year gave the Marlins permission to seek moving the team. The Marlins have threatened to leave South Florida unless they get a new baseball-only stadium with a retractable roof.

Reports say the team earlier this month decided not to pursue a move to San Antonio and the Marlins are talking with officials of the Miami suburb of Hialeah. The team has signed to play at Miami's Dolphins Stadium through the 2007 season and has lease options through 2010.
The Marlins' owner, Jeffrey Loria, also has an Oklahoma connection. He owned the Oklahoma City 89ers baseball team for four seasons, from 1990 to 1993.

[BDP]

I don't know, I like seeing what things really cost. I like seeing information gathering, which is what she did. Obviously, the offer was impotent from the beginning, because no one would support such a move in the first place. She just kind of said "well, let's see what would happen". And now we know two things:

1) No one would support this, as evident by so many people thinking it was ludicrous in the first place and

2) It would cost us $350 million, which, because of #1, we don't have.

Obviously, it was a pretty hallow pursuit that most would and have said "never gonna happen". But, then again, the only time anything has ever happened in Oklahoma is when someone ignored the refrains of "never-gonna-happen".

[Survey]

Instead of making it look like we wanted a baseball team, she simply could've asked the owners of the Marlins the pricetag on the stadium they were wanting.

[Martin]

by expressing interest, what did it cost us? i don't think it's such a big deal. -M

[metro]

It just proves her forward-thinking abilities or lack-therof. She put the wagon before the horse. We need visionaries in leadership positions to keep the momentum that we've made going.

[Patrick]

Her vision was good, but the outcome shows that she didn't have her head screwed on tight.

[BDP]

Maybe I don't understand. Didn't she just write a letter expressing interest? I think maybe more was made out of what she did. I don't think she promised anything to anyone. In the end, she got a semi-detailed outline of what it would take for OKC to get a team. How does this hurt anyting, exactly?

Putting the wagon before the horse would be building a stadium before we had any team interest. Now where have I heard of doing that before?

[Patrick]

Yeah, but why even bother contacting them to begin with, if we never had any intent on trying to lure them? Seems like we're wasting their time.

[Survey]

Fallin knew we wouldn't be getting a major league baseball team. She figured this would be a good opportunity to make her look good for her campaign. I think she was jeolous of Mick's popularity, and wanted to try to match it. Sorry for her, but she failed miserably.

[BDP]

why even bother contacting them to begin with

Have you ever test driven a car you can't afford and don't intend to buy, just to see the difference between that and what you are going to buy?

Basically, to get information. I doubt it was a waste of their time, because they could use the impression of interest for leverage. They probably got more out of it than we did. All sellers want the impression of as many potential buyers as possible. Now, if she promised them or us something and they or we took action based on that promise, that'd be different. But, as far as I can tell, that didn't happen.

I'm sure she was motivated by the attention as well. She's a politican. They're all publicity whores. And that's why Mick is leaving the city early, because he has leverage and publicity right now. He's using us, too. In the end, sometimes the best we can hope for is that their selfish motivations benefit the community somehow. If their poltical pissing contests establish realtionships with major leagers and get us some information, I'm all for it.

I take it some resent her either for getting attention from it or because of their own predisposed poltical loyalties. But, i just found it interesting and a useful step in getting information. I don't care about her poltical career, but I am interested in what it would take to get a MLB team here and her actions did that. And it's good info, becuase it's not from some city paid consultant, but from a real organization.

[brianinok]

It was a fact finding mission for all involved... including the Marlins. Their owner even has Oklahoma ties. This was not a far-fetched scenario from the beginning. I think some of you are just blowing this out of proportion.

[jbrown84]

Yeah, but why even bother contacting them to begin with, if we never had any intent on trying to lure them? Seems like we're wasting their time.

Maybe she did have an intention to pursue it, at least as far as finding out what kind of deal the Marlins would need. That's exactly what she did, and when it was clear that we weren't prepared to give them what they needed, she removed OKC from the race, and announced that financial backers would focus on the Hornets. Seems perfectly legit to me.

[metro]

Have you ever test driven a car you can't afford and don't intend to buy, just to see the difference between that and what you are going to buy?

Basically, to get information. I doubt it was a waste of their time, because they could use the impression of interest for leverage. They probably got more out of it than we did. All sellers want the impression of as many potential buyers as possible. Now, if she promised them or us something and they or we took action based on that promise, that'd be different. But, as far as I can tell, that didn't happen.

I'm sure she was motivated by the attention as well. She's a politican. They're all publicity whores. And that's why Mick is leaving the city early, because he has leverage and publicity right now. He's using us, too. In the end, sometimes the best we can hope for is that their selfish motivations benefit the community somehow. If their poltical pissing contests establish realtionships with major leagers and get us some information, I'm all for it.

I take it some resent her either for getting attention from it or because of their own predisposed poltical loyalties. But, i just found it interesting and a useful step in getting information. I don't care about her poltical career, but I am interested in what it would take to get a MLB team here and her actions did that. And it's good info, becuase it's not from some city paid consultant, but from a real organization.

Some well said points BDP. I'll admit I'm embarrassed by this stunt because it was a cheap way to get publicity in a very tight highly contested race. Like you said, she was test driving a "car" (aka. Florida Marlins) with no intent to buy it nor the money to buy it. Although the city has made huge strides of progress, we're no where near ready to build a $350 million dollar stadium with tax-payer money and fill it with 35-40K people for 70+ games. Folks, we spent around $309 million for all the MAPS projects combined and they are self sustaining pretty much. The city is dealing with a $2 million dollar surplus this year, nowhere near the level of a MLB stadium. I have no political ties or loyalty, just common sense says it can't be done right now, the NBA or NHL is a totally different, more realistic story. Did both parties probably benefit from it, Yes. Was it illegal? No Is it ethical? you be the judge

[BDP]

I agree that it never seemed realistic from the beginning, but the truth is that is the probably the first time and first opportunity that we've ever had where a MLB team would respond, so she wrote a letter. Personally, I'm not as embarrassed by the effort as much as I am surprised that we actually got a semi-substantive response.

Even if we had the money, I don't think it would work and I don't think the MLB thinks it would work. Just like, even though we had the facility, the NBA didn't think it would work and the NHL passed us over as well. In the case of the NBA, persistence paid off and we earned a trial run at a good point in the city's history. That was not the result of a last minute miracle by Cornett, but years of lobbying, investment, and contact by many city and state leaders during times when most said the same thing people are saying about the MLB right now. The Ford Center was the biggest gamble of MAPS for sure and it was just squeezed in when you think about it. Several NBA arenas cost 300 million, some more. Any team negotiating with the city would have asked for more than a 100 million dollar arena to make them move. Only when a team had to move did they take us seriously. We can’t forget that.

I'm not saying any of this justifies building a baseball stadium at this time, but as much as some see it as a politically motivated "stunt", I think the same logic could say all this backlash is just as politically motivated, as a way to tip the polls in a close race. Ultimately, especially if she loses because of it, I think the backlash sends a message to leaders to not go out on a limb, to not throw our city and state into the hat, and to not act, but only to react, because they may lose their job due to the backlash that follows. It would reinforce that the most superficial of gestures can be the difference in elections and could cause the visionaries to sit idle in fear of backlash, even if all they wanted to do was put out some feelers and gauge the state's position in the field of major league markets.

I certainly don’t think anyone should vote for her because of this, as it ultimately is a non-issue, but I also think a vote against her specifically for it sends the message that inaction is better than even simple action. I think such a sentiment from the people can render the leaders impotent. Again, if she misrepresented the state or herself, then it rightfully would be both irresponsible and unethical, and maybe illegal. Unless, we find out otherwise, it sounds like relatively free fact finding to me and all that really happened was that we ended up right back where we were, but maybe a little more informed, and maybe with the door cracked open just a bit more where future leaders can more easily walk through (and then leave for Washington, ).