Downtown Parking

[ljbab728]

I know where 1.3 million of it could come from lol

IF the city collects any of the property taxes they could in theory use "creative accounting" allocating a certain property's taxes to the garage indefinatly or take a bond against future garage revenues

I suspect they have many more urgent priorities.

[1972ford]

How is parking not a priority? Its a much needed thing in OKC and to place it on land the city already is planning on owning would open up more property downtown to the property tax rolls in the long run it would be of great benefit to the city and the city could probably get state and federal grants to help fund it if the city were to designate it a storm shelter as well. I couldn't imagine the city's cost(after any federal and state funds) being more than $10 million over an above ground parking lot the city would need to buy the land for an above ground lot which lowers the gap further.

Downtown will need shelters from tornadoes that can accomidate thousands of people there is no reason we should not plan ahead and hide the ugly garages underground while providing safty and piece of mind during tonadoes would also provide cover in the event of hail as well for people that are stuck in the open park. its not like they would need a 5 story garage underground at a site that large just 2 or 3 levels would do it

[ljbab728]

How is parking not a priority? Its a much needed thing in OKC and to place it on land the city already is planning on owning would open up more property downtown to the property tax rolls in the long run it would be of great benefit to the city and the city could probably get state and federal grants to help fund it if the city were to designate it a storm shelter as well. I couldn't imagine the city's cost(after any federal and state funds) being more than $10 million over an above ground parking lot the city would need to buy the land for an above ground lot which lowers the gap further.

Downtown will need shelters from tornadoes that can accomidate thousands of people there is no reason we should not plan ahead and hide the ugly garages underground while providing safty and piece of mind during tonadoes would also provide cover in the event of hail as well for people that are stuck in the open park. its not like they would need a 5 story garage underground at a site that large just 2 or 3 levels would do it

Because the kind of parking you are suggesting is not a much needed thing in OKC and things like public safety and transit are more urgent. You don't seem to understand that an underground parking area would be more expensive than above ground and above ground parking does not have to be ugly. Please note the proposal for the new parking near the Civic Center. If OKC had unlimited money your idea would be fine but that's just not the case. As for tornado shelters, most downtown buildings already have basements. That just isn't a major issue. The underground parking area below the Cox Center could already accommodate thousands.

[1972ford]

maybe some of that 1.3 million in surplus should go towards signage downtown directing people to 24 hour public access storm shelters

[ljbab728]

maybe some of that 1.3 million in surplus should go towards signage downtown directing people to 24 hour public access storm shelters

I"m thinking you need a "LOL" after that statement because I've never heard of people downtown being confused about what to do if storms approach.

[jbrown84]

Yeah I'm not sure there's an urgent need for storm shelters downtown.

They were going to put parking under the Park but decided it would be cost prohibitive (but that was also at a time when they insisted we didn't have a parking problem)

Since they ended up gutting Bicentennial Park, trees and all, it's too bad they didn't put an underground garage there a la Pershing Square in LA or Union Square in SFO.

[catch22]

Not to mention basements in most downtown buildings, there is also tens of thousands of square feet of underground shelter in the tunnels of the Underground.

[Spartan]

I thought that the $1.3 million was supposed to go toward Sunday bus service?

As for underground parking, there are other considerations. Putting a parking deck beneath the park will significantly limit landscaping in the park, apparently other parks with underground parking have limited landscaping directly above the underground parking structures - essentially about what you'd see on a rooftop garden or something like that (you can't do anything with extensive root systems, like a tree).

[kevinpate]

I thought that the $1.3 million was supposed to go toward Sunday bus service?...

One of several options under consideration. Another is adding an extra 20 policia beyond an already programmed increase. There's another option or three out there as well.

[Larry OKC]

New parking meters going in with an interesting concept.



Now they need to figure out a way that you could use the unused time on another day.


http://newsok.com/pay-and-display-pa...rticle/3686970

That article brought several unanswered questions to mind (that one included).
1) How does it know that you have time left? When you leave, does the meter issue a time stamped receipt or something (like the gate does when you leave a parking garage)?
2) Do you have to find another space before your 30 minutes to 2 hours is up?
3) The article started out with a lady being thrilled with the advent of these new meters because the construction folks take up the spaces all day. What about these meters change that?
4) it said that parking rates are going up. Think the minimum amount now is 25 cents for 15 minutes(?) and now it will be 75 cents for 30. Why the cost increase? Thought they said when this was proposed that there wouldn't be a cost increase, that increased efficiency, usage would make them self-supporting???

[Larry OKC]

I"m thinking you need a "LOL" after that statement because I've never heard of people downtown being confused about what to do if storms approach.

For those working downtown you are probably right, but for those visiting the area, and especially the Park area, it is probably a good idea.

I thought that the $1.3 million was supposed to go toward Sunday bus service?

As for underground parking, there are other considerations. Putting a parking deck beneath the park will significantly limit landscaping in the park, apparently other parks with underground parking have limited landscaping directly above the underground parking structures - essentially about what you'd see on a rooftop garden or something like that (you can't do anything with extensive root systems, like a tree).

I'm not sure why it would. Depends on how far below ground it was (remember there are supposed to be lakes/large ponds on top too) and the type of trees chosen. Trees are used on rooftop gardens etc. Supposedly there are gong to be trees and other landscaping ON new Countyline Road overpass out there by the truck stops

[betts]

I think it's like the ones in Chicago. With those meters, you buy a certain amount of parking time. So, if you buy 2 hours of parking at 1 p.m., you can park at any meter in the city until 3p.m. You simply display your receipt on your dashboard. But, once your time has expired, it's unusable. I think you can rebuy time for the same space, as long as you aren't staying longer than the maximum because the pay and display receipts aren't specific to a specific space. It's just for a specific amount of time.

[Oil Capital]

As for underground parking, there are other considerations. Putting a parking deck beneath the park will significantly limit landscaping in the park, apparently other parks with underground parking have limited landscaping directly above the underground parking structures - essentially about what you'd see on a rooftop garden or something like that (you can't do anything with extensive root systems, like a tree).

I'm not sure why it would. Depends on how far below ground it was (remember there are supposed to be lakes/large ponds on top too) and the type of trees chosen. Trees are used on rooftop gardens etc. Supposedly there are gong to be trees and other landscaping ON new Countyline Road overpass out there by the truck stops

It wouldn't. There are any number of underground parking garages around the country with trees planted on top of them (not to mention underground convention centers with trees planted on top of them, e.g., Cleveland's)

[jedicurt]

you just can't use trees whose roots go really deep... but there are plenty of trees that have fairly shallow root systems that it isn't a major problem... but yes, it does stop you from planting some types of trees but i don't really see it as a big limit to landscaping capabilities

[Spartan]

It doesn't matter either way what I write and then click post. Hargreaves already advised on the matter, which I think rcjunkie pointed out in another thread, with regards to the MAPS3 Central Park.

[Oil Capital]

It doesn't matter either way what I write and then click post. Hargreaves already advised on the matter, which I think rcjunkie pointed out in another thread, with regards to the MAPS3 Central Park.

Are you seriously trying to leave the impression that Hargreaves advised that underground parking would preclude trees in the park above the parking? I am quite confident they did no such thing, because they know that is simply false.

[Just the facts]

Thanks Oil Capitol. You can put almost anything you want on top of an underground parking garage. In fact, Discovery Channel had an episode a while back showing not only the parking under New York's Central Park, but the 7 stories of archive storage as well. It is not like there is 3 feet of dirt on top of the roof.

[Spartan]

Are you seriously trying to leave the impression that Hargreaves advised that underground parking would preclude trees in the park above the parking? I am quite confident they did no such thing, because they know that is simply false.

What kind of argument is this? "Pfft, obviously Hargreaves did not do that because surely, they know exactly what I know, nothing more and nothing less." Perhaps you're actually being modest for once, I mean, how can they even know as much as you do about OKC, since nobody knows more even though you live in Tulsa?

I'm not in a position either way on this underground parking thing, so if you're wanting to troll me you're going to have to wait for another opportunity. The simple fact is that, while there isn't any public record on MAPS3-related things obviously, underground parking was planned for the MAPS3 Central Park and now it is not.

Considering E.D. is actually my field, (ie., how organic and built material inter-relate) I can say the environmental logistics of planting on top of structures is a lot more simple than people would suspect. All you have to do is account for 50 and 100-year root systems, and you'd be surprised how extensive some root systems can be - you may not even have to accommodate soil horizons. However, some trees' root networks grow much faster than the actual tree.

Whether you guys think it's a good idea, and because it is possible albeit expensive I'd argue it just comes down to the need for the parking there that can't be met by a nearby parking garage, the point is just that somebody at the city doesn't think so. Instead of revving up to troll me as you always do, why don't you troll Couch and Wenger instead if you think we need underground parking.

What is being done however is a new parking garage with housing on top of it, and I for one am extremely excited about this development opportunity, and think we should be talking about that.

[Oil Capital]

What kind of argument is this? "Pfft, obviously Hargreaves did not do that because surely, they know exactly what I know, nothing more and nothing less." Perhaps you're actually being modest for once, I mean, how can they even know as much as you do about OKC, since nobody knows more even though you live in Tulsa?

I'm not in a position either way on this underground parking thing, so if you're wanting to troll me you're going to have to wait for another opportunity. The simple fact is that, while there isn't any public record on MAPS3-related things obviously, underground parking was planned for the MAPS3 Central Park and now it is not.

Considering E.D. is actually my field, (ie., how organic and built material inter-relate) I can say the environmental logistics of planting on top of structures is a lot more simple than people would suspect. All you have to do is account for 50 and 100-year root systems, and you'd be surprised how extensive some root systems can be - you may not even have to accommodate soil horizons. However, some trees' root networks grow much faster than the actual tree.

Whether you guys think it's a good idea, and because it is possible albeit expensive I'd argue it just comes down to the need for the parking there that can't be met by a nearby parking garage, the point is just that somebody at the city doesn't think so. Instead of revving up to troll me as you always do, why don't you troll Couch and Wenger instead if you think we need underground parking.

What is being done however is a new parking garage with housing on top of it, and I for one am extremely excited about this development opportunity, and think we should be talking about that.

Once again, Spartan has been caught spinning tales, and when exposed, whines about trolls, waves his claimed academic credentials, tries to change the subject . . .all of his usual tactics.

Simple facts: Contrary to the claim made by Spartan, trees can be planted on top of parking garages. Hargreaves know this and would not advise anyone otherwise. We know Hargreaves know this because they have designed projects with trees on top of parking garages.

[Spartan]

Huh?

[Snowman]

That article brought several unanswered questions to mind (that one included).
1) How does it know that you have time left? When you leave, does the meter issue a time stamped receipt or something (like the gate does when you leave a parking garage)?
2) Do you have to find another space before your 30 minutes to 2 hours is up?
3) The article started out with a lady being thrilled with the advent of these new meters because the construction folks take up the spaces all day. What about these meters change that?
4) it said that parking rates are going up. Think the minimum amount now is 25 cents for 15 minutes(?) and now it will be 75 cents for 30. Why the cost increase? Thought they said when this was proposed that there wouldn't be a cost increase, that increased efficiency, usage would make them self-supporting???

1) you get a receipt that states the time remaining, which will be on your dashboard.
2) they are zoned for a max of either one hour or two, then you would have to move or be risk being fined.
3) If they are willing to get fined every day it may not but it would become much cheaper to just pay for longer term parking after the meters are in.
4) part of it is credit card fees, the minimum transactions fees are something around 30 cents.

[Larry OKC]

Reportedly, according to City Manager Couch, there is more than the $1.3 million for the Council to spend. IIRC, they have several million in extra funds (like they did last year) that they can use without it effecting some rating or another)...IIRC, it is around $8 million???

[ophitke38]

Suddenly my car is just a soft drink bottle in one of those mega-vending machines - LOL

[ophitke38]

Let's face it - parking garage spaces are expensive. Figure the square footage of both the parking space and the access, you're looking at $30-40,000 to provide parking for one person's personal vehicle. That doesn't even consider the cost of the interstates and streets to allow that vehicle to get from the owner's driveway to the parking garage. But in a city that simply refuses to make a significant investment in commuter rail, that's the tax that's forced on everyone. There's a significant segment of the population that just has no desire to come downtown if their only means of doing so is driving their car and parking it. It's much easier to drive to the local Wal-Mart and park for free.

But the reality is that, for downtown Oklahoma City to continue to grow, there has to be a better way to get people into and out of downtown. High population density simply does not coexist with an additional $30-40,000 cost of providing a parking space for each downtown resident - in addition to comparable spaces for visitors/shoppers/guests. In a metropolitan area where it's much less expensive to buy raw land on the edge of the metro and build, what's the incentive to move downtown? The only thing the city can do is spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build infrastructure in the hopes of luring people to a downtown park, near the Thunder, near Bricktown, near the Olympic rowing venue - near something they like enough to tip that decision.

The city really needs to get serious about commuter rail. I'm much more likely to come downtown if I can get where I want to go - a Thunder game, the courthouse, the civic center, etc. - and back at a nominal cost without having to drag my vehicle along with me.

[Spartan]

I've never heard anyone anywhere assert that building in a downtown area should be cheaper. That said, I also think people would be surprised just how much parking exists downtown, especially free parking, both in lots and on the street. There are dozens of thousands of free spaces everywhere you look. Too much.

The current parking crunch is limited to spots for office workers to park all-day in, because most of the free spots have time limits on them, to make sure that they are available when you want to come downtown to eat or see a movie, etc.