Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[damonsmuz]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASQ4711

What a great way to see Oklahoma. A few diverts dropped into KOKC lastnight....

[dcsooner]

There was a response last month from Southwest to the DOT in regards to demands by US Airways and Frontier to deny the OKC-DCA application by WN. No response is out yet. The latest update a couple of weeks ago is that it is still under consideration on what to do with the AIR 21 slot. Going by the WN response, they have a slam dunk here and should win the slot. It pretty clearly points out US Airways' poor utilization of the DCA slots it already has. I would have to agree with them. I personally think that DCA slots should to be used to serve as many cities as possible to connect to the Nation's capital...not provide a connecting hub. Unfortunately US hasn't really followed this. It is somewhat disturbing that they won't maintain JAN service by reallocating a slot that is on another route that is probably over saturated with frequencies. Especially a route operated by multiple RJs a day versus mainline aircraft.

Attachment 1744

Not sure I would call this a slam dunk, however, when do you think a decison on the route will be made? the out of perimeter decision which included the decision for Austin was filed a week or so later and has been made.

[venture]

Not sure I would call this a slam dunk, however, when do you think a decison on the route will be made? the out of perimeter decision which included the decision for Austin was filed a week or so later and has been made.

Well which is why I stated if going by the WN response...they pretty much nailed every concern going against them. However, US Airways has a massive support group in DC that would probably still give it to them.

Austin was a beyond perimeter slot...the AIR 21 decision should be in by the end of the month.

[HOT ROD]

I hope OKC gets it as this could be the flight we need to get OKC into the annual 4M+ pax class.

[HangryHippo]

Has the decision on these routes still not been made?

[venture]

Has the decision on these routes still not been made?

Nope...still pending.

http://www.regulations.gov/#!searchR...-OST-2000-7182

[HangryHippo]

I'm quite surprised this is still pending. It seems a bit ridiculous that a decision has not been made, but I hope the decision is in OKC's favor.

[venture]

Long expected announcement...that has nothing to do with DCA. LOL

Delta will be eliminating one of the three daily flights to the Memphis hub. This is part of the 25 flight reduction taking the hub to just 125 daily flights, down from over 300 about ten years ago. Don't be shocked to see OKC-MEM completely eliminated eventually.

[HangryHippo]

I know this thread is probably not the most appropriate for the following thought but I did not think it deserved a new thread. And let me preface this by saying that I really do try and avoid having some overly idealistic vision of OKC where everything is just perfect, as I realize every place has shortcomings.

However, I was at the airport this morning and noticed the embarrassingly poor quality of the facility in several aspects. It seems like shortcuts were taken and mistakes made throughout. I could go on and on about things I noticed that either didn't make sense, seemed poorly thought out, or were poorly executed/shoddily completed. For example, the parking garages with their elevator lobbies where the doors don't close fully and don't open automatically. And then you get to wait on a filthy, industrial looking elevator that might only take 4-5 minutes to get to your floor, where only half of the people waiting for it will be able to fit in because it's the size of a cubicle. Then you get down to the hall to the terminal where the majority of the moving walkways aren't functioning. And as you move along, it becomes clear that the construction quality of these areas is horrendous. Continuing on, there are holes or scrapes in the floors and walls, which are cracking in several areas. Then in the terminal, it's more of the same. The layout of escalators and stairs seems idiotic. There doesn't really seem to be any consistency to anything. And the entire layout of the place is just disappointing. I really feel like I could go on and on, but I'll stop there. It's just insane. But then I arrive at DFW's International Terminal and things don't look like that.

I simply don't understand why things here in OKC repeatedly turn out to be ****tier than what other cities have? I understand there are notable exceptions to this poor planning and lack of quality execution, but it feels like we have the lowest standards of anywhere I have ever been. And the sad thing is, I feel like I could substitute our airport for any number of other places in this city and have the same issues.

[catch22]

No real argument from me.

[Snowman]

Seems more to speak of how they are maintaining it, the doors did fully close at one point. It was a bit surprising they did not do more to the tunnel to parking when the rebuilt almost everything else. It looked like they built a ton of stuff new above ground and at most put a coat of paint down there.

[venture]

Seems more to speak of how they are maintaining it, the doors did fully close at one point. It was a bit surprising they did not do more to the tunnel to parking when the rebuilt almost everything else. It looked like they built a ton of stuff new above ground and at most put a coat of paint down there.

Pretty much. I also echo the comment about the escalators in the ticket counter area. The layout of them is just flat out stupid. Why this wasn't addressed during the remodel is beyond me...well I'm sure it was to skimp out on costs, but ya know. The underground walkway does need some help. Murals, new lighting, pictures...something. I look at underground walkways at other airports and they get really creative...here they slapped on a new coat of paint and put little LED light bars in each skylight. oOoOoOooo

[chrisok]

Not to mention, closing the west checkpoint in the evenings makes no sense..
I understand closing one of them down after 5:00, but close down the east checkpoint. The east checkpoint is much more crowded, further away from every gate but Delta's, and it has no priority lane. It inevitably adds 20-30 minutes to my wait time every flight.

[damonsmuz]

WN will be releasing new route schedule on Monday. Anyone with "insider" information know if any new routes may be coming to OK (either TUL or OKC)...

[venture]

WN will be releasing new route schedule on Monday. Anyone with "insider" information know if any new routes may be coming to OK (either TUL or OKC)...

I think TUL is pretty much at its peak on what it will see from WN for awhile.

OKC we are still waiting on DCA slots. NK (Spirit) filed today to give back its 2 AIR21 slots used on DCA-FLL. This is the same type of slot exemption WN submitted for to operate OKC-DCA. The slot pair they are currently going after is being used on a temp basis by US Airways on JAN (Jackson MS) to DCA. This could make things interesting because this now gives the DOT two slot pairs to award. We could see US get to keep the existing pair used for DCA-JAN and then give preference to WN for OKC-DCA. WN recently purchased the other 4 standard DCA slots NK was holding on to. Those will be used to start STL-DCA later this summer.

If I'm reading this all correctly I feel we very well could see OKC-DCA launched this fall as there aren't many other airlines jumping at these slots. F9 was another but I don't see their case for SDF (Louisville) to DCA being all that great.

I still think at some point we'll see ATL-OKC added in once the integration of the FL hub there begins in a year.

[ou48A]

I don’t fly very much but I was checking on some flights and noticed that Spirit airlines has some cheap airfares.
Is this an airline that hits you hard with add on charges? Is it an airline to avoid?
Thanks.

[venture]

I don’t fly very much but I was checking on some flights and noticed that Spirit airlines has some cheap airfares.
Is this an airline that hits you hard with add on charges? Is it an airline to avoid?
Thanks.

That is how they are one of the most profitable airlines. They are great if you need to get someone cheap and want an a la carte service. However there are fees if you want to get the basics you normally expect on other airlines. Good or bad, they are solid in what they do.

http://www.spirit.com/OptionalFees.aspx

[venture]

WN will be releasing new route schedule on Monday. Anyone with "insider" information know if any new routes may be coming to OK (either TUL or OKC)...

No changes we announced today with the new schedule. Another schedule extension will be coming soon.
Southwest's new market:

• Two daily nonstop flights between Nashville and New York LaGuardia

Southwest's new seasonal markets include:

• One daily nonstop flight between Nashville and Ft. Myers
• One daily nonstop flight between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and Phoenix
• One daily nonstop flight between Milwaukee and New Orleans (AirTran Conversion)
• One daily nonstop flight between Ontario and Reno

Removed markets include:

• Baltimore to New York LaGuardia
• Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale
• Orlando and Panama City
• Tampa and West Palm Beach
• Reno and Salt Lake City
• Albuquerque and El Paso

Seasonally Suspended markets include:

• Albuquerque and Portland
• Albuquerque and St. Louis
• Las Vegas and Albany
• Las Vegas and Jacksonville
• Las Vegas and Providence
• Kansas City and Oakland
• Kansas City and Seattle
• Phoenix and Raleigh-Durham

AirTran Changed markets include:

• Atlanta and Phoenix - to full Southwest
• Buffalo and Tampa - seasonal suspension
• Chicago and Tampa - seasonal suspension

[HangryHippo]

Venture, do you think there's a chance we might get service to the NY market beyond what United currently offers, i.e. AA or Delta to LaGuardia or, by an act of God, JetBlue to JFK?

[venture]

Venture, do you think there's a chance we might get service to the NY market beyond what United currently offers, i.e. AA or Delta to LaGuardia or, by an act of God, JetBlue to JFK?

AA is up in the air until they get out of Ch11 and the US Airways merger (which probably will happen). I don't see Delta dropping any other markets in favor of OKC-LGA. Though it might be possible as they continue to dump the 50-seat jets and start to bring in the bigger small jets and 717s. JetBlue would be amazing, but I don't think Oklahoma is "sexy" enough for them to consider. Don't know another way to put that. LOL

OKC-NYC is probably going to remain pretty static for now unfortunately.

[HangryHippo]

You really think AA and US Airways are going to merge? I just don't see it happening...

[catch22]

AA is up in the air until they get out of Ch11 and the US Airways merger (which probably will happen). I don't see Delta dropping any other markets in favor of OKC-LGA. Though it might be possible as they continue to dump the 50-seat jets and start to bring in the bigger small jets and 717s. JetBlue would be amazing, but I don't think Oklahoma is "sexy" enough for them to consider. Don't know another way to put that. LOL

OKC-NYC is probably going to remain pretty static for now unfortunately.

Chic would be the appropriate term IMHO.

I have a source who has said local management at Delta has been pressuring Delta HQ hard for LGA service. We are on the "short list", but they are seeing how the other markets in their recent expansion pan out first. At least from what I have been told.

[BG918]

I wonder if AA and USAir merge if they keep all the same hubs or scale back like Delta/Northwest (scaled back Memphis and Cleveland). They definitely keep DFW, Chicago and Miami (American hubs) and I think they would keep Phoenix, Charlotte and Philadelpia (USAir hubs). I can see some scaling back at LAX (since Phoenix already covers the west coast) and possibly in Philadelphia but that is their northeast hub so probably not. I think Charlotte takes on a greater importance and more flights are added/remain at Phoenix, Chicago and DFW. It will be interesting to see what happens (if they even merge).

[venture]

You really think AA and US Airways are going to merge? I just don't see it happening...

There are some good synergies and while I don't want it it to happen, something makes me think that it probably will.

Chic would be the appropriate term IMHO.

I have a source who has said local management at Delta has been pressuring Delta HQ hard for LGA service. We are on the "short list", but they are seeing how the other markets in their recent expansion pan out first. At least from what I have been told.

Ahh yes...Chic is much better! I would hope we were on the short list for LGA service. We are just inside the perimeter which is a plus. I could definitely see an ERJ 170 being a good fit for the route. Makes sense what you are saying though. Let DL see if any of the new routes they took over from US fail and then redeploy in new markets.

I wonder if AA and USAir merge if they keep all the same hubs or scale back like Delta/Northwest (scaled back Memphis and Cleveland). They definitely keep DFW, Chicago and Miami (American hubs) and I think they would keep Phoenix, Charlotte and Philadelpia (USAir hubs). I can see some scaling back at LAX (since Phoenix already covers the west coast) and possibly in Philadelphia but that is their northeast hub so probably not. I think Charlotte takes on a greater importance and more flights are added/remain at Phoenix, Chicago and DFW. It will be interesting to see what happens (if they even merge).

I would think most would stay intact. DFW is an obvious one. ORD should remain pretty strong as well. MIA is a good gateway to the south. PHL is a very good network hub to bridge to Europe that would compliment the JFK/LGA operation that is mostly O&D. The DCA hub (which it pretty much is) is an amazing asset to have. PHX is a tough one though. A lot of temptation to just dump it or shrink it down and shift more flying to LAX. CLT is an exceptional network hub and the largest for US Airways. It is the only real competitor to ATL in the Southeast.

[venture]

Fare sale put on today by Southwest...

• From Oklahoma City back to top
  
  • To Atlanta starting at $183 one-way
  • To Austin starting at $133 one-way
  • To Buffalo starting at $249 one-way
  • To Burbank starting at $225 one-way
  • To Charleston starting at $204 one-way
  • To Chicago starting at $186 one-way
  • To Cleveland starting at $215 one-way
  • To Columbus starting at $241 one-way
  • To Denver starting at $69 one-way
  • To Detroit starting at $236 one-way
  • To Ft. Lauderdale starting at $205 one-way
  • To Houston starting at $69 one-way
  • To Indianapolis starting at $204 one-way
  • To Jacksonville starting at $242 one-way
  • To Kansas City starting at $69 one-way
  • To Los Angeles starting at $232 one-way
  • To Louisville starting at $179 one-way
  • To Lubbock starting at $140 one-way
  • To Midland/Odessa starting at $162 one-way
  • To Milwaukee starting at $219 one-way
  • To Minneapolis/St. Paul starting at $249 one-way
  • To Nashville starting at $204 one-way
  • To New Orleans starting at $183 one-way
  • To New York starting at $218 one-way
  • To Newark starting at $224 one-way
  • To Norfolk starting at $249 one-way
  • To Oakland starting at $225 one-way
  • To Ontario/LA starting at $249 one-way
  • To Orange County starting at $186 one-way
  • To Orlando starting at $227 one-way
  • To Panama City Beach starting at $199 one-way
  • To Philadelphia starting at $181 one-way
  • To Phoenix starting at $164 one-way
  • To Pittsburgh starting at $249 one-way
  • To Portland starting at $154 one-way
  • To Raleigh/Durham starting at $249 one-way
  • To Reno/Tahoe starting at $237 one-way
  • To Sacramento starting at $193 one-way
  • To Salt Lake City starting at $218 one-way
  • To San Antonio starting at $165 one-way
  • To San Diego starting at $150 one-way
  • To San Francisco starting at $246 one-way
  • To San Jose starting at $229 one-way
  • To St. Louis starting at $69 one-way
  • To Tampa Bay starting at $194 one-way