Myriad Gardens

[BoulderSooner]

But we haven't any of those things. Our canal has already become blighted again, our park will never attract the kind of development around it that Discovery Green or Millennium Park did, and idk about this epic bronze sculpture? But it's also safe to say that Bricktown is not quite the destination that 6th Street in Austin is, nor does it have any mixed-use development like the other successful parts of DT Austin.

One of the most elegant urban settings in all of Texas is the Main Street LRT corridor in Houston - I guess you can say we'll have modern rail transit soon as well, and that's at least one project I can still get excited for.

bricktown doesn't have any mixed use?? ... really ...

then what is JDM place?? what is the ACM building? what is the Centennial

[Larry OKC]

My bad. I thought the Office of James Burnett, who designed the MBG, had designed Discovery Green. They designed another project adjacent to discovery green. Discovery Green was actually designed by Hargreaves and Associates, who produced the original rendering for the MAPS3 park design concept. I do know the Devon Implementation Committee, including committee leadership, as well as representatives from OJB, Devon, the MBG Foundation, took site visits to Discovery Green for progamming ideas.

No worries here...I wouldn't have been surprised if MG was but definitely recalled the MAPS 3 park comparison...and in the article I linked I could see it being a possibility on the size comparison...how big is the MG, is it more inline with Discovery Green (12 acres)?

[Larry OKC]

That was very early in the talking stage, there is not going to be parking under the park.

I didn't realize it was taken off the table. Can you provide proof?

RC is right on this one and no need for him to dig it up (but here is some proof from Oct '09 anyway)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...yriad-gardens/

Cornett said a lot of the programming for the central park won’t be certain until after its fate is decided by voters. Cornett said in recent days he has decided to drop plans to pursue underground parking at the park, citing its excessive cost.

Underground parking was eliminated due to it being cost prohibitive (along with a few other things the Core to Shore report recommended that the Park have). The Mayor mentioned it during the Chamber pay-to-attend Breaking Through luncheons where the lady from the Park firm discussed it. If it had been placed in the Mayor's preferred location, the underground parking at the time was to serve both the Park and the Convention Center . Still could for that matter I guess. The question was asked at the luncheon about parking and the Mayor said there was plenty of onsite street parking around the Park but it was something they would keep a close eye on. Of course by the time you figure out that you need the parking the Park may already be built and then it would be really expensive to put it in after the fact, so we will end up with massive surface parking or an above ground parking garage.

I have a question, why would underground parking preclude landscaping etc? While I could understand certain types of deep rooted trees not being able to be planted, they have landscaping on top of structures of all kinds.

[Spartan]

bricktown doesn't have any mixed use?? ... really ...

then what is JDM place?? what is the ACM building? what is the Centennial

I'll give you the Centennial, but are we still counting south of Reno as Bricktown? You tell me..

I also already mentioned ACM as a good deal for Bricktown, but as for JDM, could you tell me how many people live there? Or do some non-commercial use there? How can you sound bewildered, "really?" as if this is a new discussion point that Bricktown lacks mixed-use? Really??

[FritterGirl]

No worries here...I wouldn't have been surprised if MG was but definitely recalled the MAPS 3 park comparison...and in the article I linked I could see it being a possibility on the size comparison...how big is the MG, is it more inline with Discovery Green (12 acres)?

The Myriad Botanical Gardens are 17 acres total, hence the comparison to Discovery Green.

[Rover]

Having spent a fair amount of time in New Orleans at a friends apartment over Jackson Square, my experience is that lofts over bars and restaurants tend to limit who will rent to those who don't mind the noise, light and commotion til late night or early morning hours. As long as the emphasis in Bricktown is night time entertainment, a true mixed use development might be less attractive. However, near a gardens/park would seem to be a natural. Since this is a Myriad Garden thread, I assume that is what we should be referencing.

[catcherinthewry]

To get back on topic, I found out that the controls to the thunder fountain were flooded, parts have been ordered and the insurance company is investigating. I didn't get a good answer on why a fountains controls weren't water proof though.

[Architect2010]

Okay, this is off topic but does someone want to explain to me how the Bricktown Canal is "already blighted again". Ummm. The hell?!

[rcjunkie]

Okay, this is off topic but does someone want to explain to me how the Bricktown Canal is "already blighted again". Ummm. The hell?!

It hasn't, consider the source of the post, enough said.

[catcherinthewry]

It hasn't, consider the source of the post, enough said.

True. I was down there today and it looked fine. The amount of people taking the water taxis surprised me for the middle of the week.

[Spartan]

Having spent a fair amount of time in New Orleans at a friends apartment over Jackson Square, my experience is that lofts over bars and restaurants tend to limit who will rent to those who don't mind the noise, light and commotion til late night or early morning hours. As long as the emphasis in Bricktown is night time entertainment, a true mixed use development might be less attractive. However, near a gardens/park would seem to be a natural. Since this is a Myriad Garden thread, I assume that is what we should be referencing.

The French Quarter has a huge residential population. The further you walk from Canal Street, the more residential it gets. What a beautiful urban setting. That's just the kind of place you can never replicate.

[bombermwc]

Very true...and i know people that live in the quarter. However, it presents its own problems....like parking. You don't really park on the streen there like you would in the original area of San Juan, for example. It is mixed use taken to the highest possile degree and it's also undergoing a conversion post hurricane. The quarter is MUCH cleaner on so many levels than it was before. For one thing, there is a definite split from the party area that wasn't there before. One entire street is almost totally full of art galleries, workshops, etc that all focus on local artists...happens to be the same street that touches the most greenspace as well. That in contrast to Bourbon.

Now, are you going to find that anywhere else, no? Downtown Mobile is about as close as you get. Or to a smaller degree, SOME of downtown Baton Rouge. Will you ever see anything like that in OKC, nope...never. For one thing, places like NOLA have that beacuse those buildings are a couple hundred years old at this point and were built that way because that's how Europeans used to build things....concentrated vertical use. In the US, we sprawl because we have the space. It's just a direction connection to how long we have been here vs how long people have been in Europe.

So if you're expecting to see anything even close to that, then forget it and give up.

[Rover]

The French Quarter has a huge residential population. The further you walk from Canal Street, the more residential it gets. What a beautiful urban setting. That's just the kind of place you can never replicate.

Last census the French Quarter population was slightly over 4,000. And, it is right at 300 years old.

[Bullbear]

Very true...and i know people that live in the quarter. However, it presents its own problems....like parking. You don't really park on the streen there like you would in the original area of San Juan, for example. It is mixed use taken to the highest possile degree and it's also undergoing a conversion post hurricane. The quarter is MUCH cleaner on so many levels than it was before. For one thing, there is a definite split from the party area that wasn't there before. One entire street is almost totally full of art galleries, workshops, etc that all focus on local artists...happens to be the same street that touches the most greenspace as well. That in contrast to Bourbon.

Now, are you going to find that anywhere else, no? Downtown Mobile is about as close as you get. Or to a smaller degree, SOME of downtown Baton Rouge. Will you ever see anything like that in OKC, nope...never. For one thing, places like NOLA have that beacuse those buildings are a couple hundred years old at this point and were built that way because that's how Europeans used to build things....concentrated vertical use. In the US, we sprawl because we have the space. It's just a direction connection to how long we have been here vs how long people have been in Europe.

So if you're expecting to see anything even close to that, then forget it and give up.

I don't think there is much difference post Katrina to the quarter. I am there several times a year as my best friend has lived on Burgundy for over 20 years. the art galleries on Royal have been there for decades. The quarter can't be replicated it is a unique city in and of itself.

[OKCisOK4me]

Can we start a thread for the French Quarter in New Orleans? I thought by clicking on this thread that there would be an update on something in the MBG.

[Watson410]

Can we start a thread for the French Quarter in New Orleans? I thought by clicking on this thread that there would be an update on something in the MBG.

Like a weekly movie night...

[OKCisOK4me]

Like a weekly movie night...

Figure on finding that in The Gazette

[TAlan CB]

To get back on topic, I found out that the controls to the thunder fountain were flooded, parts have been ordered and the insurance company is investigating. I didn't get a good answer on why a fountains controls weren't water proof though.

Yes, this is what I have found as well, problem is how long is it going to repair. Insurance does not want to pay so they are going to "drag their feet" as long as possible.

In the end this all comes down to daily maintaince. The current staff that actually works on the garden (not ticket takers or office personal) has been cut - again. Also, there are still contractors (sub) working on various parts of the installation that have not been completed or need kinks worked out - like why over 20 kick-couplers for water connections to hoses WERE NEVER INSTALLED! The automated sprinker system is very sophisticated, and the hard scape extensive (fountains, etc), but maintaince or control retuines were never given to the actuall staff that is suppose to maintain. Most of this is normal learning curve when projects are turned over from designers/contractors to the facility "owners", but there is a large lack of oversite - because there is not sufficient personal for the city or the gardens staff to do so. So, when a sub-contractor turned off the water to the grounds so that they could check an issue, it took the grounds staff 4 days (because many of the water systems are on timers and underground) to figure out why a lot of the plants were wilting - the water had never been turned back on - not the contractors concern. If you have enough staff, maintaince issues are quickly addressed, when you constantly lack dedicated staff, you are constantly behind and minor damages become permanent because you don't even have time to address the daily needs. In this, nothing has changed from the old gardens, facility funding for mechanical systems is met, but soft-scape funding is alway allowed to "slide" - the grounds always suffer. Currently, the horticulture staff for the Crystal Bridge has been shifted to grounds maintaince and the conservatory is being allowed to grow "wild" - time allocated only for watering - none for the extensive pruning maintaince that is needed when plants that do not grow togather in the wild are put togather in a plant musuem. The result is monolith plants scapes of the most aggressive dominat species. The staff and Foundation are doing the best they can with what resoursces they have, given time they will over-come these initial "growing pains" and things will get better.

It comes down to money. The Foundation that has always existed in partnership with the city-owned gardens, is now "in charge". They will bring high quality, insightfull, and dedicated direction. But, if the facilities is continuously under-funded there is little they can do about maintaince. While they are, and will continue to seek alternative funding, it is an up-hill struggle. Just look to the zoo as an example, when a dedicated sales tax addressed the basic needs, then additional funding that was raised by that foundation went to growing the zoo and increased the zoos ability to grow funds for special projects - again improving the zoo.

OKC is notorious for building something nice and then not funding the maintaince - the zoo is one of the few exceptions, let us hope that the Mryiad Gardens will not become another example of the City once again "dropping the ball".

[CuatrodeMayo]

Interesting perspective. That sounds plausible. If you don't mind me asking, what is your relationship with the Gardens?

[Spartan]

You know, downtown has an army of social media addicts like ourselves. If there's an exterior problem, like a crappy insurance company, they need to tell us and we'll get it out. The Myriad doesn't need to stay quiet on these deals bc people will blame somebody for the really cool fountain we paid for not working all summer.

[TAlan CB]

Interesting perspective. That sounds plausible. If you don't mind me asking, what is your relationship with the Gardens?

I knew all the directors and most of the staff (except the current directors - foundation and city), and have since moved on to other gardens and jobs. I have kept in touch and have the perspective of working at other, similar, facilities in other cities and states. Well intention people have passed information in a casual manner and I check through my sources. But since the city does "punish" those who speak, I can not be more specific. I can say that I did not get this information from a singular source, but from several present, past, and in related departments. Since I have worked at other botanical gardens with similar, but different senerios, this is much easier to see. To blame anyone connected to the facility on any level is like blaming the victim of an accident ... they are all just stuck in it. It is my hope with greater public envolvement, and a higher profile, the new Myriad Gardens will get much needed public support and pressure. There can be a different out-come, it is up the citizens of the city to demand more - just like they did with the zoo and are doing with project 180.

[kevinpate]

Oh, the worst thing that could happen to MBG would be to do it like project 180. Why throw half of it away with a shrug and a mere suggestion, sans plan, of putting it back together later. Hopefully the MBG is nowhere near that far gone after the recent changes to its grounds and mgmt.

[Larry OKC]

Sadly agree...we have seen the acceptance with MAPS, MAPS 4 Kids, and so far with what has gone wrong with MAPS 3 (things like the $40 million "mistake" made with the trails)

[Spartan]

Hot damn, French gypsy jazz in the park on Tuesday! I picked the wrong week to go on a cross-country roadtrip

[TAlan CB]

Y

Oh, the worst thing that could happen to MBG would be to do it like project 180. Why throw half of it away with a shrug and a mere suggestion, sans plan, of putting it back together later. Hopefully the MBG is nowhere near that far gone after the recent changes to its grounds and mgmt.

I only meant that the obvious mistakes, issues, and general progress (or lack there-of) are being noticed ... and complained about.
In the past, the lack of maintaince on the grounds of Myriad Gardens was never brought up by locals - though I can tell you visitors often would remark about the general disregard for ground maintaince. The staff worked hard, but was often occupied with attempting to repair the damage done over-night by vandals - and I mean every night. A lot of the damage was never (could never) be repaired. The new grounds has a lot more to destroy - and it has already begun. There is more destruction to the "Thunder Fountain" than just the electrical system - just check out the tiles around the ground lights - and they are not being fixed or replaced. Though night security is employed, there is only so much one person on a gulf cart can do.

Fortuneatly, the new grounds design is easier to monitor and invites more people in - thus more eyes. With increased use on a routine basis, there should be less damage (because the presence of more people will discourage vandals). But, once again we are back to a smaller staff than was employed in the "hey-day" (of staff) that dealt with all the previous damage. Only increased diligence on the part of the people who would use the grounds will help grow or maintain the grounds - by speaking up and acting (help with fund-raising, volunteering - they love volunteers and would take anyone who would bother to try). The general "rule of thumb" in botanical garden maintaince is one person per acre - there are 17 acres at the Myriad Gardens (Yes, the lake counts - they often take more work). There are far less staff than this - possibly 4 horticulturist and a couple more grounds help. This staff of grounds people are for both inside and outside the conservatory. I recently worked at a small conservatory that was 1/4 of the size of the CB that had 4 horticulturist, and a dozen volunteers. They were also asked to help maintain an extensive grounds - but since the facilty was gated and there were so many volunteers, it was easier.

This garden - and it location- is a jewel compared to similar facilities around the country. But it will remain so only if people are concerned enough to help maintain it.