First National Center

[ljbab728]

I agree. Converting the FNC center to a hotel is a great idea but thinking it might be the main convention center hotel just doesn't sound feasible or likely.

[Rover]

Seems like a massive amount of mechanical work would be required for a hotel retrofit. This would likely be a gutting and total retrofit. Residential would take less.

[Spartan]

Seems like a massive amount of mechanical work would be required for a hotel retrofit. This would likely be a gutting and total retrofit. Residential would take less.

Rover, since building systems are your trade, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that conversion to residential would involve less gutting. My impression is that each individual apartment unit would need to be totally black boxed, whereas hallways and elevator lobbies on each floor could remain in tact and be nicely preserved - there is some great original Art Deco detail that exists throughout the tower. The problem though is that due to the overwhelming scope of work needing to be done for a conversion, I don't think that the FNC would qualify for the investment tax credit, although perhaps the annex would, which ironically is a lot less historic.

[Pete]

The Colcord was similar to FNC (a very old office building) and they didn't have too much trouble converting it to a hotel.

No matter what they do, they have to completely reconfigure the restrooms which are currently between the floors and non-ADA compliant.

[Spartan]

I believe the Colcord was Class B however. Wasn't Doug officing in there before the renovations?

[Rover]

Rover, since building systems are your trade, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that conversion to residential would involve less gutting. My impression is that each individual apartment unit would need to be totally black boxed, whereas hallways and elevator lobbies on each floor could remain in tact and be nicely preserved - there is some great original Art Deco detail that exists throughout the tower. The problem though is that due to the overwhelming scope of work needing to be done for a conversion, I don't think that the FNC would qualify for the investment tax credit, although perhaps the annex would, which ironically is a lot less historic.

I was making that observation based on mechanical systems, not on walls and other structural. Either will probably require a pretty comprehensive gutting and reconfiguration of wall systems.

Is FNC on a district chilled and hot water system?

[Oil Capital]

You might want to try: "Sorry for being a bit rude before. I was mistaken... Thanks for politely providing the information and clearing that up."

And you might want to not be so quick to accuse and convict someone of lying when there is little evidence of such. Failure to close on a large loan within 30 days does not prove that the proposed borrower was lying when he said he had pre-approval pending the approval to end the bankruptcy. If they indeed lied about this, I suspect we will be hearing from the bankruptcy judge.

[Snowman]

And you might want to not be so quick to accuse and convict someone of lying when there is little evidence of such. Failure to close on a large loan within 30 days does not prove that the proposed borrower was lying when he said he had pre-approval pending the approval to end the bankruptcy. If they indeed lied about this, I suspect we will be hearing from the bankruptcy judge.

Even if they have a loan lined up for after bankruptcy, that is putting the cart before the horse as they have to come to terms with the creditors to restructure the debt first.

[Spartan]

I'll readily admit that bankruptcy law is not my field of expertise, but it sounds like I'm not the only person for whom this is their first tango with bankruptcy law. I will say I enjoy reading the perspective of people on here who clearly understand the nuances of what's going on, and what it means for the FNC.

[bombermwc]

I was making that observation based on mechanical systems, not on walls and other structural. Either will probably require a pretty comprehensive gutting and reconfiguration of wall systems.

Is FNC on a district chilled and hot water system?

I believe it is. So that complicates things even more. Remember, the thing was built before they were putting real AC's in anything. But a total gut of the old sections is what this thing needs anyway. It can't supply the electricy requirements of today. Most floors don't have adequate fire supression. It's very cramped feeling in the tower section (that's the fault of the tenants and how they laid out their floorplans though). They need modern windows so the place doesn't hemorage heat/air (and yes you can keep them historic while doing this). The list goes on and on. Which is why people have avoided the place like a plague. Restoration is length and expensive. Why do you think the wealthy are the ones that keep Heritage Hills as it it?

[Rover]

And all this is harder with lowered floor to floor heights.

[Pete]

It will be expensive, no doubt. They spent $15M on the Colcord for only about a quarter of the square footage.

But, new construction is at least $200 per square foot (the new Bricktown Hilton Garden Inn is going to be about $250 / sf), so if it cost them $60M to completely redo the 450,000 sf tower plus another $5M to purchase it, that's still only $144 per sf.

If they could solve the parking problem, I think the numbers will work given the current high downtown occupancy rates for hotels, office and residential.

[Spartan]

This property is adjacent to the Main Street Garage. There is no reason for there to be a parking issue. Especially if COTPA can move commuter parking permits to an expanded parking garage at the Century Center. But then you're obviously looking at way more than 2 additional levels of parking. I don't see why with the Century Center they can't replicate the Devon parking along Hudson (with storefront retail + The Well), which is very well-done if you ask me.

The Century Center could even become our first large mixed-use tower with two levels of retail and 4-5 levels of parking on top of that (a la Devon) and then figure out what on top..hotel, residential, office, entertainment..demand is pretty high for all of it.

I think you have to take a bigger picture perspective and that has to include the FNC and Century Center projects being coordinated, because the parking has to be figured out. Also keep in mind that these blocks will be surrounded by the streetcar on all sides.

[Urbanized]

Main Street is privately owned; not COTPA-owned. That was probably the biggest hit to the viability of this building; the Main Street garage used to be a part of the FNB complex and it was split off by previous owners when they donated the tower itself to Feed The Children years ago. They kept the profitable parking and shrugged off the marginal office for a big tax break.

The other main problem with First National's viability is that on most floors in the tower the restrooms are between floors on the landings of the stairwells. ADA nightmare.

Side note: I have fantasized for years about starting a cool nightclub in the basement bank vault area.

[wschnitt]

Here is some cafe 7 progress

[CuatrodeMayo]

It's a shame they don't have the thunder blue floodlights on like they did a couple of years ago during the playoffs.

[betts]

They've got a Thunder blue spire with an orange light on the top of it. It actually looks pretty cool, although floodlights would be nice.

[Pete]

The extended deadline to raise the $12 million is today.

I'm sure the present owners will not be able to come up with it and I sincerely hope the judge will finally place this property into receivership so a new buyer can be found.

[OklahomaNick]

Keep us posted if anything comes out today!
Sure hope it goes into receivership!

[Pete]

If the Century Center gets expanded/renovated as planned, it would leave the FNC as the last big hole downtown.

With the massive investment all around it, the time might finally be right to make something significant happen with this property.

[GaryOKC6]

I am told that Bob Moore is going to move their corporate offices to the Century Centre. They are currently located in the tower across the street from it.

[Spartan]

There is no way they raised the money.. but I'm holding my breath for Yash's next trick to prolong this.

[Pete]

His pattern is to delay, make misleading promises (being kind here), litigate, delay some more and generally tie up properties for years on end.

The problem is really all on his end because things have only become much better in OKC since he first purchased this property. He's mired in multiple bankruptcy's, lawsuits and criminal charges.


The best news would if Capmark regains full control and then sell at a reduced rate. Bad for them, but good for the future of that property.

I wouldn't be surprised if they accept another extension because they would rather hope for this $12 million than have to take the property back and sell it for far less than that.

[OklahomaNick]

Without going back and scanning through all 550 posts.. How much did FNC appraise for?

[Pete]

Depends on who you ask:

An appraisal by J.W. Hoyt & Associates for Yashouafar values the property at $16.5 million. Capmark, meanwhile, provided two separate appraisals by Cushman & Wakefield and CBRE reflecting values of $8.4 million and $8.5 million.

Read more: http://newsok.com/first-national-own...#ixzz1sIvPWj4m