Mistletoe Oklahoman &Times

[grantgeneral78]

Doug L. IS The Man . . . (in regard to interesting OKC history.)
Pete ain't no slouch neither.

Thanks, again, for sharing your "find", sir.

Yeah they are both great guys, I actually met Doug at one of the southside meetings a while back.
And yes Pete has shared some good info in the past with me as well.

Your Welcome it is just too cool not to share with the other "okies" here.

[Doug Loudenback]

By way of update, somehow in the midst of the Thunder stuff going on I've gotten past the 1930s and am now in the early 1940s parts of the Oklahoman's archives. It is a bit of a chore (because of the Oklahoman's archival stuff methodology or lack thereof) but I'm piecing together a 7/27/1941 multi-page supplement to the Oklahoman celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Mistletoe Express. It's taking a little time to copy, paste, and piece each of the pages together rather like a quilt, but once done that supplement should tell a good bit about the MExpress, at least from the owner's perspective. But, of course, that's just a jumping off point to the time after that. I've run across some maps later than those posted already which reflect that some counties, notably in far SE Oklahoma, were cut from the 1932 ME routes ... and also that at least some parts of the Panhandle came to be included ...

And, thanks, Tritone, about the Beaver Express info. I'll check into that, also.

I've still not located an Oklahoman photo of the ME facility in Oklahoma City ... perhaps that will come.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm still reviewing the 42 page supplement to the July 27, 1941, Oklahoman, but perusing those pages I found this image at the 38th page which I thought should be posted immediately ... it doesn't appear to be your signage, grantgeneral78, since, at the bottom your photo shows "Oklahoman & Times" and in this sign the bottom reads, "Express Service."

Original image without enhancing the Oklahoman archives image ... click on image for larger ...





Doctored image from the Oklahoman archives image ... click on image for larger ...



The text below this photo says, "There are no idle hours in Mistletoe's main headquarters on 5th street and Santa Fe. Shipping goes on virtually around the clock, and trucks are arriving and leaving at all times. Here is a night view exterior of the main offices."

[grantgeneral78]

Very nice find Doug! So I am assuming this sign is from the 1930`s seeing as how this is a similar sign. That sign looks great out there very art deco look.

Looks like your hot on the trail, hopefully this sign will show up in one of those pictures....thanks for posting this Doug!

[OSUMom]

The building on the NW corner of 4th and Walnut used to say Mistletoe on it. It's like a big storage place with big doors for delivery trucks to load up.

[RadicalModerate]

My guess is that the location suggested by OSUMom is probably closest to the original location of the sign. I'm almost sure that I saw the sign--many times--as I made many (paid) drives from the former Steelman Const. location near 4th and Bryant to various points in the old/70s downtown version of OKC. The fact that the sign specifies Oklahoman/Times rather than Express Service means that it was probably right next to the old newspaper production facility. Doesn't it?

[lt14life]

Here's a cool old picture... Look at Lincoln and all the oil derricks!

Very Cool !!

[grantgeneral78]

My guess is that the location suggested by OSUMom is probably closest to the original location of the sign. I'm almost sure that I saw the sign--many times--as I made many (paid) drives from the former Steelman Const. location near 4th and Bryant to various points in the old/70s downtown version of OKC. The fact that the sign specifies Oklahoman/Times rather than Express Service means that it was probably right next to the old newspaper production facility. Doesn't it?

You may have something there.

[Doug Loudenback]

Grantgeneral78, I've finished browsing the Oklahoman's archives through the early 60s (past the time that the new Mistletoe Express facility opened on Harrison in October 1956). All of the signage shown in Oklahoman articles which present and describe the new building are "modern" and aren't consistent with the style of your sign and just wouldn't "fit in." I'm suspecting that your sign was actually used at the earlier building on Broadway at some point in time. I've still not found anything which nails the sign, but that's what I'm thinking at this point.

This drawing in the January 23, 1956, Oklahoman, shows the architectural style and matching signage presented in the new building,



The older building on Broadway is more interesting, anyway. Here's a clip from an October 7, 1956, article, which makes my point.



I've moved some earlier Photobucket mages in this thread to where they belong, into this Photobucket album, so some early images in this thread may not show up correctly in this thread after that movement.

[RadicalModerate]

You may have something there.

Actually . . . I have nothing but a sincere interest and some conjecture about something as cool as that sign.
YOU really DO have "something there"! =)

[grantgeneral78]

Grantgeneral78, I've finished browsing the Oklahoman's archives through the early 60s (past the time that the new Mistletoe Express facility opened on Harrison in October 1956). All of the signage shown in Oklahoman articles which present and describe the new building are "modern" and aren't consistent with the style of your sign and just wouldn't "fit in." I'm suspecting that your sign was actually used at the earlier building on Broadway at some point in time. I've still not found anything which nails the sign, but that's what I'm thinking at this point.

This drawing in the January 23, 1956, Oklahoman, shows the architectural style and matching signage presented in the new building,



The older building on Broadway is more interesting, anyway. Here's a clip from an October 7, 1956, article, which makes my point.



I've moved some earlier Photobucket mages in this thread to where they belong, into this Photobucket album, so some early images in this thread may not show up correctly in this thread after that movement.

Yeah Doug I think your right that newer building they moved to has a total different updated look to it. So the sign most likely came from the old building they moved from. Were there ever any other building locations in other cities? That is a great article you found on the old buildings history it paints a great visual of what the interior would have looked like, I am sure there are pictures of the old swimming pool and club floating around somewhere, this is really turning up some great history!

Actually . . . I have nothing but a sincere interest and some conjecture about something as cool as that sign.
YOU really DO have "something there"! =)

Yes I was really fortunate to rescue it from its cage, I have to go back and he says he has the pole for it but from the other pictures it looks like it mounted to the building itself.

[Doug Loudenback]

Does the bottom of the sign have a place that a pole would have mounted? Are there other evidences on the sign that might indicate how it was mounted to what?

Yes, there were other ME offices ... Enid, Tulsa, Lawton come to mind but I'm pretty sure there were others also. Several Oklahoman photos are present in the Oklahoman but the quality of the images are so poor as to be useless.

[grantgeneral78]

Does the bottom of the sign have a place that a pole would have mounted? Are there other evidences on the sign that might indicate how it was mounted to what?

Yes, there were other ME offices ... Enid, Tulsa, Lawton come to mind but I'm pretty sure there were others also. Several Oklahoman photos are present in the Oklahoman but the quality of the images are so poor as to be useless.

It actually attached on the long tall side of the sign with 3 brackets that stick out of the side as seen in the pics.

Could it be possible it hung at one of those offices?

[Doug Loudenback]

Anything is possible, but you did find it in Oklahoma County, right? Since "Mistlletoe" is combined with "Oklahoman & Times," that combo makes it more likely that it was in Oklahoma City somewhere, I would suppose.

[grantgeneral78]

Yes it was in Oklahoma county. Yeah this big of sign is too big and heavy to be traveling far with.

[Doug Loudenback]

Here's a cool old picture... Look at Lincoln and all the oil derricks!

Not only is the 1944 photo cool, it's just as cool that you located it at the Wisconsin Historical Society's website, Pete! Notice the brick road which I presume is Lincoln Blvd. My guess is that the view looks south at the State Capitol Bldg ... if it looked north, we'd be seeing residences and medical buildings on the right ... do you all agree?

On Edit: I've looked at a city map contemporary with the photo ... Lincoln Blvd. only extended south of the Capitol Bldg. to NE 11th Street after which it ceased to exist, plus it wasn't all "straight" like the photo shows. In this day, Lincoln Blvd. extended north from the Capitol until it merged with Grand Blvd. (US 77). So this photo definitely looks south at the State Capitol Building.

[FRISKY]

On Edit: I've looked at a city map contemporary with the photo ... Lincoln Blvd. only extended south of the Capitol Bldg. to NE 11th Street after which it ceased to exist, plus it wasn't all "straight" like the photo shows. In this day, Lincoln Blvd. extended north from the Capitol until it merged with Grand Blvd. (US 77). So this photo definitely looks south at the State Capitol Building.

True, and noticing the shadows, it looks like the photo was taken about 2pm on a winter day.

[RadicalModerate]

That can't be the capitol building . . . It doesn't have a dome!

Looking at that wonderful photo, has anyone else considered how the definition of "boulevard" seems to have changed over the years?

[Larry OKC]

I know you are making a joke about the dome, but Ryan's/Fire Mountain had enlarged old postcards of various places in the City as wall decor and one of the fascinating ones was the new capitol with a dome (dirt streets and Model T Fords in it too), of course it was an artist's rendering what the building was going to look like and not a photo.

[Doug Loudenback]

You might find this document (http://www.docstoc.com/docs/84152185/doc---TheOnline) interesting, if you're doing something involving the history of Mistletoe. Upsher was the CDO there for many years and this is his first-person account of how that happened...

Jim, I'm having trouble finding "Mistletoe" when searching in the file you linked to ... help, please?

[Jim Kyle]

Look at Page 37 of 42 in the "Saga of Sidney Upsher" for his account of a meeting with Edward Gaylord and subsequent happenings. The first 36 pages, though, are also quite interesting although they have nothing to do with Mistletoe...

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks much, Jim. Waking rather early this morning, I located what you're referring to but then decided to start reading the whole memoir and found it to be well worthwhile. It will be even more useful if and when someone gets around to doing a story on Leeway Motor Freight. As to Mistletoe Express, I had already read something of the litigation between Mistletoe Express and UPS and was guessing that UPS might have been Mistletoe's downfall, but Mr. Upsher nailed it, as well as giving some good "inside information" about what was taking place in Mistletoe's last days.

It was annoying that the whole document could be neither printed nor downloaded at the pay website where Upsher's very useful document could only be read. So, I've done screen shots of the 1st page and then 37-39, reassembled them as graphic images, and added the following "Editor's Notes" at the end.

Editor's Notes

The above is extracted from an undated memoir titled, "The Saga of Sidney Upsher," written by him and published on the internet at doc - TheOnline. Actually, two of his memoirs are there, the one just mentioned which is 39 pages long, and a second 3-page piece, "30 Years of Travel," describes Mr. Upsher's travel experiences with his second wife, Betty Lou, during their marriage which began in October 1970, through December 2000.

Unfortunately, to be able to print and/or download the full documents, the hosting organization charges membership fees which I declined to pay. However, for educational and research purposes, I extracted the foregoing pages having to do with Mistletoe Express by screen captures and reassembled the pieces into what you are reading here.

Mr. Upsher (1923-2010) tells quite a poignant and interesting story of his life which spanned numerous personal family experiences, his education in Oklahoma City's public schools (Gatewood Elementary, Taft Junior High, original Classen High School) and at the University of Oklahoma. As well, he describes his military service during World War II and the Korean War, and his work with Leeway Motor Freight, where he became general counsel, and his time as chief executive of Mistletoe Express, the topic covered in these extracted pages. He died November 28, 2010, at the age of 87.

I've made a PDF file of the extracted pages and have uploaded it at my web host here and will be using it in the article that will eventually be written. Thanks again for the great heads up about this piece. At the personal (his, that is) level, one can only be shaking one's head in sad bewilderment about his mother and have sadness for Mr. Upsher's otherwise excellent life. It is probably not accidental that he refers to his father as "Dad" and his mother as "Mother." His obituary is here.

[grantgeneral78]

Mr. Upsher`s life was busy from start to finish. What a great read thanks for posting this up Doug.

[Jim Kyle]

I downloaded the whole thing several years ago from some other site -- I no longer remember where it was -- and saved it for possible use in "The New Classen Life" magazine that I edit for the Classen High School Alumni Association (shameless plug to entice any Classen or CSAS alums to join and read). However due to the nature of the earlier material I decided that full publication might not be a good idea. It's possible to read the whole thing from the link I posted earlier, just not to print or download it...

[Doug Loudenback]

Grantgeneral, I did note in his article that one of his addresses (after his first wife and he were married in 1948) was what he described as a very spartan apartment ... he gave the address as "500 NW 20th, just across from Wilson School." Well, I live on NW 19th, between Walker and Dewey but near Dewey, about 2-3 blocks from Wilson School. So while I doing an errand this morning I drove by BOTH 500 NW 20 and 500 NW 21. The 500 NW 21 address is "just across from Wilson School" but the 500 NW 20 is a block to the south and, exactly speaking, is not "just across from Wilson School" but is, as I said, a block south. Either way, both are vintage apartment buildings in my neighborhood although the one which looks from the street as being the most spartan is definitely on NW 21 which is the one "just across from Wilson School." So he may have gotten the street wrong.

Truth is, while reading his article, the sense of "deja vu all over again" began to grow. There were so many coincidental pieces/locals/other similarities in his own history and mine ... mainly small points but there were so many ... that I started hearing Rod Serling's Twilight Zone music, you know, "do do dah dah, do do dah dah," but, of course, the thing that brought me down to earth is that I'm quite sure the he made a bucket load of money during his life but such similar good fortune never came my way. Not complaining. Still, the number of coincidental events/places/some family experiences started to make me wonder (closeness of my present home to his 1st marital home in Okc; California; his reference to Christian Science (my mom was a devoted member); many others that I'm not mentioning). I'm thinking that Jim Kyle may have had similar sensations since he was a student at OU pretty close to the time that Upsher was. I think that at least twice in his piece Upsher said, "What goes around comes around," or something like that.

I think that it probably does, and I don't mean that in a bad way at all. I just mean in it the sense of "good karma."