Friends for a Better Boulevard

[ljbab728]

I just sent this to Eric:

Hi Eric, my name is (OKCisOK4Me) and I am a frequent poster on www.okctalk.com. There's been considerable back and forth talks on there about building a roundabout/traffic circle on the west end of the new boulevard project.

I sincerely hope you have considered adding it to the project as it would ease congestion of traffic in the Western/Classen/Reno/Exchange area while also giving future development a realistic chance as opposed to having a second elevated boulevard going through this part of town.

I have provided a visual of the proposed traffic circle by one of our regular posters (who used a computer program to make it look professional (whereas, I used my Samsung Note)).

Also, if you have Facebook, be sure to check out Friends for a Better Boulevard, which has lots of new ideas from the general public that you're not going to see at an every day council meeting.

Thank you for your time & I do hope to hear back from you.

Sincerely,
(OKCisOK4Me)

OK, now I'll send him my vote against the traffic circle to counter you.

[Spartan]

I guess I am questioning the need for yet another place to "spur development"...we already have plenty of that and are needing infill development etc to get to the Urban Utopia that I hear some ardent posters suggesting. How does the Boulevard help in that regard? I have asked this question of the Mayor, City Manager, various Council people what is the NEED for the Boulevard, yet another DT street? I have yet to hear of any reasoning for it. it is just a given in their minds. The Mayor stated (not a direct quote), that if the Park & Boulevard doesn't happen, downtown grinds to a halt. Why? We were without both for 100+ years and hasn't seemed to stop it in its tracks yet. And while on the subject of development (sorry if this upsets Urban or others), but isn't that precisely what the Streetcars are supposed to foster? The 8 to 1 return on investment? Several people have asked "why would we go down the Park to Union Station?". To spur the development that the City is wanting with the Park and the blighted area that is commonly known as Core to Shore. While the Park itself is supposed to help in that regard, the Streetcar is complimentary to it (as it would be with all of the MAPS projects). Those same folks convinced me that the Streetcar is what would do that and now the route chosen is along already developed properties. Seems to me somewhere along the way, they lost track (no pun intended) of what the purpose was. Granted that may have been at the direction of the Council. And if it was, that is the political/bureaucratic reality they are having to deal with. Unfortunately, it is what we are all going to have to live with for decades to come. I want the Streetcar to be a success, but the proposed route seems destined for failure. And a very expensive one at that. We have to get it right the 1st time. only time will tell.

Larry, I don't think we can create too many opportunities for economic development. That 8 to 1 ROI in terms of TOD isn't just true, it's the most conservative figure out there, and we're already seeing the streetcar spur large amounts of infill in the Mid-town area.

So that will be a good thing for us. But the streetcar reflects the current geographic footprint of downtown, and the route doesn't reflect growth opportunities for downtown because we determined within the existing footprint we had enough TOD opportunities. But is enough really enough? It's hard to ascertain just how much development we really need to create the city, but we need more than we're getting, and we've quantified that the demand keeps increasing at a rate that we are simply not keeping up with. For this, I refer to the latest downtown housing study AND the original one.

The strong suit of the proposed traffic circle area is that this area is more important for downtown than Core2Shore is. Western between I-40 and downtown is now the true front door of downtown - if you drive down Western during the day (especially 3-6) you'll notice bumper-to-bumper traffic all the way from Main to the new I-40 as that has become the main highway exit into the CBD. You'll also notice that Western and Classen are both extremely blighted. That is a development opportunity, not just to correct the blight, but also to take advantage of the enormous traffic counts. I believe that natural development patterns need to follow traffic counts, rather than create traffic counts - the traffic counts needed for massive mixed-use developments EXIST along Western which has just now become the pinch point for traffic distribution - a traffic circle with at least 5 points of egress and ingress can effectively improve traffic distribution, and do it safely.

By the way, you question what technological changes have occurred - technology is a bad term, but there have been important structural improvements made. For instance, the circles that we removed across the U.S. were modeled after European ones in which traffic entering the roundabout had the right of way, whereas today it's standardized for traffic already IN said roundabout to have right of way, which does dramatically reduce accidents compared to normal intersections and especially compared to European or old-fashioned roundabouts. There are a few things we do better in the U.S., and I believe that the future is so much brighter than we realize for American urbanism with all the innovations it is producing.

[OKCisOK4me]

OK, now I'll send him my vote against the traffic circle to counter you.

Its okay...he's heard from practically everyone...

[Spartan]

I guess I can muster a respectful email myself as if it matters.

[Larry OKC]

Spartan: I think I see what you are saying, but given the high cost of the Streetcars, it would seem better to get that 8 to 1 ROI with a clean blank slate (like the Park/Core to Shore) rather than "wasting" it on infill projects right now. I agree about the front door part, since ODOT managed to take away the DT access. That was one of the reasons they gave for putting the Park where they did, so when folks exited off the new crosstown, they would have something attractive to look at instead of all of the blighted area. Problem is, no one (myself included) noticed that there arent any access points along the Park. Also, by moving all of the crosstown traffic to fewer streets that probably aren't designed to handle the traffic flow, that just adds to the City's problem of how to get all of that traffic moving efficiently.

Which leads us to agreement on the congestion part (I work in the area, just a bit west around Penn & 4th), things have gotten much worse with the relocated I-40. Some of that may be due to poorly times traffic signals where it gets backed up significantly, or lights change but no one can move because the next light is still red etc.

I think JTF and yourself might argue that we already have "too many opportunities for economic development" given our 600+ square miles??? But maybe we are talking about different things...

[catch22]

Hello Mr. Eric Wenger,

My name is (catch22), I am a citizen of the City of Oklahoma City and I would like to express my concerns for the proposed Boulevard to replace the old I-40. I believe it is a major planning mistake to create a new elevated structure in downtown. There has been no development along the old I-40 because it was elevated and created a physical unattractive barrier, and there will be no development along the new Boulevard where it is elevated for the exact same reasons. All we are doing is replacing the old I-40 structure with a new I-40 structure. The fundamental flaw still remains, it will just be "new and shiny".

Several good ideas have been posted on the internet, especially at okctalk.com. I believe a traffic circle/roundabout at Western Ave. and the new (hopefully at grade) Boulevard would be a tremendous opportunity to drive development on the western side of downtown and ease traffic flows into downtown. I believe it is absolutely imperative that the Boulevard is pedestrian friendly/oriented along it's entire path, or at least from Western to where it joins I-40 again by Bass Pro. That includes making the street narrow to create an inviting environment for pedestrians. We can not create another barrier downtown with this Boulevard. As a citizen and taxpayer I ask you to weigh all of the options (including involving walkability and streetcar transit) and work to make the Boulevard as pedestrian-friendly as possible.

Thanks,
(Catch22)

Done.

[Just the facts]

You guys are writing the wrong people. Go to the source of the funding - the Federal government. Send letters to memebers of Congress and ask them to spend these funds somewhere else. Tell them we don't want another freeway to replace the one we just removed. If you can get a couple of greedy congressmen (these are not in short supply either) on your side this funding will be gone in seconds - and poof - no new freeway.

[Spartan]

Dear Mr. Wenger and Mr. Couch,

I am writing you to bring to your attention a citizen-generated plan that many think holds the key to generating significant economic development and creating the great public spaces we aspire to have in our city. So many in our city right now fervently believe that ODOT's proposed schematics for the Boulevard are a catastrophe of urban planning, and we would hate to see I-240 recreated where instead there should be major economic opportunity with the convergence of Western, Classen, Reno, Exchange, and The Boulevard. Western already has some of downtown's highest traffic counts as it serves as the primary conduit to I-40; our proposed traffic circle would be a primary collector and disperse point. Traffic circles are most effectively where each street entering it has relatively equal importance and traffic counts, and with the balance that all of these important streets provide, this is a particularly viable location for a grand traffic circle - essentially replicating the success of the Walker Circle, but on a much larger scale.

I know this city is a fan of traffic circles, as some of have been programmed into the pending Western Avenue streetscape, and they have been successful along 10th. I think we should consider using one as emphasis along the boulevard - it will create the sense of place we're looking for, more than anything ODOT can come up with. Many of us also feel that at some point the realities surrounding the convention center site, and not just the folly of separating the parks and breaking up the "green spine," will come to the forefront and we will be looking at a new CC site. I would really urge reconsideration of 10th, which could anchor the city's Medical Business District" and have easy rail access to any downtown hotels. The site has space, freeway access, streetcar connections to hotels, and anchors important corridors. Along with the MBD, I think North Broadway is our best opportunity for concentrating retail in an area that creates the critical mass needed for retail to create destination (retailers are esp desperate on critical mass to attract casual shoppers).

The CC being located on Broadway can help inject potential shoppers along Automobile Alley, along with an incentive program to target just a FEW local and national retailers (keeping local in the mix) to kickstart things. The retail attachment indicates how a retail incentive program, structured similarly to the outlet mall, could identify locations and strengths for new retailers along Broadway - the map identifies existing retailers (more than we realize) and where some new ones could go. This also moves the City Arts Center project to where the CC is currently proposed (swapping the locations of those projects), which puts them in our Arts District rather than competing against it, and also allows them to anchor the intersection with the "green spine" and the Boulevard. Most all would see the City Arts Center as a more appropriate anchor for the Boulevard, so I see this as a matter just as important as the traffic circle to the ultimate success of the Boulevard as we are envisioning it - a great public space.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Regards,
Name Removed (as if it matters? lol)

[Spartan]

I think JTF and yourself might argue that we already have "too many opportunities for economic development" given our 600+ square miles??? But maybe we are talking about different things...

Well it's a different ball game in terms of creating huge swaths of northern Oklahoma County ripe for new sprawl, which the 2007 GO Bond certainly did, and creating bountiful opportunities for major urban development - which MAPS3 should be aiming to do, instead of eliminating them.

[Hutch]

Great letters. That's an important part of the public process, and whether you believe it or not, they do have an impact. Don't forget though that City Council is the elected and empowered decisionmaker. Jim Couch and Eric Wenger are hired by and work for City Council, even though it doesn't always appear that way. So, make sure that any letters you send directly to Jim Couch and Eric Wenger get copied to everyone on City Council, including the Mayor. Or in the alternative, address and deliver letters to City Council and copy Jim Couch and Eric Wenger.

[catch22]

Great letters. That's an important part of the public process, and whether you believe it or not, they do have an impact. Don't forget though that City Council is the elected and empowered decisionmaker. Jim Couch and Eric Wenger are hired by and work for City Council, even though it doesn't always appear that way. So, make sure that any letters you send directly to Jim Couch and Eric Wenger get copied to everyone on City Council, including the Mayor. Or in the alternative, address and deliver letters to City Council and copy Jim Couch and Eric Wenger.

Just sent:

Attached is a copy of an email dated June 15, 2012 from myself to Mr Eric Wenger, City Engineer. This issue is of high importance and I, as a citizen of the City of Oklahoma City, desire that the Council take my letter into serious consideration. This issue will have a life-long (and longer) impact on the City and the City needs to hold ODOT and all involved parties to this highest standard to ensure the city is not left with a corridor that will subtract from all of the positive improvements the City has made with MAPS and Private development downtown. The as-proposed boulevard will choke development and prevent the expansion of downtown to the west and into Core 2 Shore.

Thank you,

(catch22)

[Spartan]

Great letters. That's an important part of the public process, and whether you believe it or not, they do have an impact. Don't forget though that City Council is the elected and empowered decisionmaker. Jim Couch and Eric Wenger are hired by and work for City Council, even though it doesn't always appear that way. So, make sure that any letters you send directly to Jim Couch and Eric Wenger get copied to everyone on City Council, including the Mayor. Or in the alternative, address and deliver letters to City Council and copy Jim Couch and Eric Wenger.

I get the impression that there's a spam filter that guards them from mass emails.

[Hutch]

I get the impression that there's a spam filter that guards them from mass emails.

I'm sure the City's server has a strong spam filter...I doubt its set up to purposefully filter out citizens emails to Councilmembers from legitimate email addresses.

[Spartan]

Right, I'm just saying sending to all the council might activate a filter. I'd pick a few council members NOT named Ed Shadid or Pete White.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing most of you guys are in Ed's district. Hopefully some of you are in Meg's district, because I imagine she's just not too familiar with this idea yet. I'm in Greenwell's district and he'd probably right me a nice friendly reply in disagreement or something lol.

[betts]

Greenwell thinks for himself, and he's not afraid of standing alone on an issue. I think if he understands the issue and he happens to agree, he'll be right there with Shadid.

[Spartan]

We'll see. I much prefer interacting with Greenwell over his Ward 5 predecessor, but thinking for himself is a good way of putting it. Not a bad councilman at all though.

[Larry OKC]

You guys are writing the wrong people. Go to the source of the funding - the Federal government. Send letters to memebers of Congress and ask them to spend these funds somewhere else. Tell them we don't want another freeway to replace the one we just removed. If you can get a couple of greedy congressmen (these are not in short supply either) on your side this funding will be gone in seconds - and poof - no new freeway.

Except, isn't it already funded???

Great letters folks (even if we don't agree on the traffic circle thing). I have been pleasantly surprised with the relative speed that they are deconstructing the old crosstown. But form what others are posting, it is making me think that they are getting rid of the old one as fast as they can so they can get the Boulevard built "as is"...before any of us muck up the works (from their perspective).

[Just the facts]

Except, isn't it already funded???

...and the federal government has never re-directed funds already appropriated? You guys can write all the letters you want but there is only one thing ODOT fears - a reduction in federal funding. ODOT doesn't give a rat's *** what the OKC City Council thinks and there is nothing the City Council can even do about it except offer their opinion and make their wishes known. ODOT doesn't answer to the City.

[soonerguru]

Except, isn't it already funded???

Great letters folks (even if we don't agree on the traffic circle thing). I have been pleasantly surprised with the relative speed that they are deconstructing the old crosstown. But form what others are posting, it is making me think that they are getting rid of the old one as fast as they can so they can get the Boulevard built "as is"...before any of us muck up the works (from their perspective).

There is probably a lot of truth in this.

[Spartan]

...and the federal government has never re-directed funds already appropriated? You guys can write all the letters you want but there is only one thing ODOT fears - a reduction in federal funding. ODOT doesn't give a rat's *** what the OKC City Council thinks and there is nothing the City Council can even do about it except offer their opinion and make their wishes known. ODOT doesn't answer to the City.

I think this is one example where you're a little out of touch with reality on the ground.

To maintain the federal funding I believe they will need to re-initiate the EIS public planning process, which is extremely outmoded anyway.

[Tier2City]

Good to see Steve getting back into the thick of it:

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...d-we-get-here/

[1972ford]

They should move the CC site to the public supply site to jumpstart the west end of downtown developement. the property around the area is cheap ideal for developers to come in and bring up the property values and fight the poverty in the area sooner and add to property tax collections. Public supply is a dying horse anyway Clay Bennet's brother Bob drove that company into the ground just like he did the company he ran in Texas.

The best way I would think to do the boulavard witout creating a downtown interstate would be for it to run the course reno(widened with a center median and traffic circle for intersections) to Robinson make it jog south around the park and along the south side then continue east as planned Reno between Robinson and Gaylord would be pernamently closed. Reno would have access to I 44 east through a service road adjacent to the state fair park and just south on portland you could get onto 40 west already and take 44 west from there. By doing this we can alieviate alot of congestion downtown due to the 2 lane overpasses on the interstates that can be bypassed via the routes. Many westbound travelers will then be encouragesd to continue down reno and enter the interstate at Meridian/MacArther. The Bethany/Warr Acres area may opt to stay off the interstates altogather and take this route to downtown giving OKC businesses more exposure to their tax dollars. The set up would also allow a decent detour for when DOT finally decides to widen the interchange bridges. We could use the median for future streetcar projects to connect to the meridian hotel area and one day(30-40 years) commuter rail all the way to the airport.

[Snowman]

Extending the streetcar anywhere near Meridian seems like making one of the same mistake we did with the bus system as far as over-reaching leading to poor service everywhere. There is already a rail corridor that runs 90% of the way to the airport.

[Spartan]

I think a rail connection to the airport makes sense, however emphasizing the areas in between downtown and the airport does not seem like a good priority, so for purposes of short-term common sense connections beyond downtown, I just don't see it as imperative. We want to make sure that we can reach at least a few areas that could be potential gold mines for TOD and ridership, like Paseo, Plaza/OCU, or Capitol Hill even.

[ou48A]

I also like the idea of a connection to the Airport….
But since it’s so close it might be nice if they could somehow include the FAA center also.