Downtown intervention needed NOW

[JohnH_in_OKC]

I have to agree with those of you asking why the New Boulevard is being elevated. There are only two places where our Boulevard cannot be flush with the surrounding streets. One is under the railroad. The other is over the canal. If we're going to have a world class Boulevard with a huge pedestrian median, we need road designers who think pedestrians first. We have far more streets than a city our size needs. One analysis showed we have enough downtown streets for a city the size of Chicago. So why not put pedestrians first in our New Boulevard? Someday, we might even make it pedestrian only like Barcelona did with The Ramblas. But ODOT has to build it first & ODOT still requires an automobile street before they would build our New Boulevard. But ODOT, please reengineer our Boulevard with pedestrians in mind & make it flush with the cross streets.

[GaryOKC6]

I believe that for the most part that the city is doing a good job with the MAPS projects. Intervention? That is a little extreme! I have heard this all before. During MAPS 1 the popular complaint was "why do we need a new arena when we have the Cox center, it is a waste of money" Well look how it turned out today......NBA Finals. We all have ideas that we feel should be implemented and some make a lot of sense, but I say let them do their job. Besides there is absolutely nothing (except whine and point fingers). Those who really want to make a difference should do it the right way. Run for office. When you are in charge we can point fingers at and blame you.

[OklahomaNick]

The reference wasn't to you. It was to Spartan (Nick).

Ahh man! Spartan's name is Nick too.. ugh! LOL

[Larry OKC]

I believe that for the most part that the city is doing a good job with the MAPS projects. Intervention? That is a little extreme! I have heard this all before. During MAPS 1 the popular complaint was "why do we need a new arena when we have the Cox center, it is a waste of money" Well look how it turned out today......NBA Finals. We all have ideas that we feel should be implemented and some make a lot of sense, but I say let them do their job. Besides there is absolutely nothing (except whine and point fingers). Those who really want to make a difference should do it the right way. Run for office. When you are in charge we can point fingers at and blame you.

You have heard it before because history has this annoying way of repeating itself unless some does something to change it. We had a myriad of issues with the original MAPS, an instead of learning from the mistakes, we are repeating them. But this time, since the largest project in this round is costing more than what all 9 of the original ones were supposed to have cost, the potential cost of fixing things is much greater. For example, we were supposed to have had Streetcars in the original (all the way to the Fairgrounds and Meridian motel corridor) but due to various federal funding issues we got the Trolleys instead. Then when MAPS 3 comes along, (IIRC) Streetcars are costing 8 times (800%) what they were supposed to back then. That is why it is critical that we get the Streetcars and all of the other projects right the first time. Shortly after the vote passed, we found out a "mistake" was made with the MAPS 3 Trails and it is going to cost $40 million or more to fix it.

I would have agreed with them back then, if we were replacing the Myriad with an arena that was the same size, but we needed a new Arena because the Cox has relatively limited seating to get the concerts that had passed us by or to get an NHL or NBA team. If anything, we needed to have built the Arena even bigger than we did (and with the improvements, reduced seating capacity by nearly 1,000 seats). Plus, having 2 arenas side by side has worked out well for college stuff (good thing Humphreys didn't get his way and rip out the Myriad/Cox arena)

Ahh man! Spartan's name is Nick too.. ugh! LOL

When I first saw yours, I thought Spartan had decided to go with another name...

[GaryOKC6]

You have heard it before because history has this annoying way of repeating itself unless some does something to change it. We had a myriad of issues with the original MAPS, an instead of learning from the mistakes, we are repeating them. But this time, since the largest project in this round is costing more than what all 9 of the original ones were supposed to have cost, the potential cost of fixing things is much greater. For example, we were supposed to have had Streetcars in the original (all the way to the Fairgrounds and Meridian motel corridor) but due to various federal funding issues we got the Trolleys instead. Then when MAPS 3 comes along, (IIRC) Streetcars are costing 8 times (800%) what they were supposed to back then. That is why it is critical that we get the Streetcars and all of the other projects right the first time. Shortly after the vote passed, we found out a "mistake" was made with the MAPS 3 Trails and it is going to cost $40 million or more to fix it.

I would have agreed with them back then, if we were replacing the Myriad with an arena that was the same size, but we needed a new Arena because the Cox has relatively limited seating to get the concerts that had passed us by or to get an NHL or NBA team. If anything, we needed to have built the Arena even bigger than we did (and with the improvements, reduced seating capacity by nearly 1,000 seats). Plus, having 2 arenas side by side has worked out well for college stuff (good thing Humphreys didn't get his way and rip out the Myriad/Cox arena)


When I first saw yours, I thought Spartan had decided to go with another name...

I still feel that theoriginal MAPS projects turned out fine. The reason for the original trolly plan being scrapped was because Ernest Istook killed the funding in Washington. He apparently felt OKC did not need a Trolly system. the money (12 million) went to another community. There are always a lot of factors with any project which tend to make it a moving target. It is far too easy for us to be an armchair quarterback on this deal. OKC is actually the envy of a lot of communities with our MAPS projects. We have hosted a lot of progressive communities that vist us to find out how we didi it. That is a good palce to be as far as i am concerned. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone else. We all are going to have different opinions and this is just simply mine.

[soonerguru]

In an attempt to add levity to the discussion: I think some of you are confusing Spartan's passion with the sort of wild-eyed conspiracy ranting we've become accustomed to from Tom Elmore and other single-issue activists. My interpretation of his comments is that Spartan is pushing OKC to set and meet high standards, high standards I believe our city is fully capable of meeting today. Ten years ago, we might have had to stand down and accept whatever improvements we got, whether or not they met our standards of a city of OKC's size and major-league ambitions.

Times have changed. The NBA Finals being hosted here is witness enough to this transformation. So here we are, flirting with the major leagues, but our flirtation involves the same minor leaguers who "do it their way because that's how it's always been done here."

All here can agree that during the last 50 years, OKC has made many disastrous urban planning decisions, creating problems where none existed. These are problems, often self imposed, that we're still trying to rectify. Sometimes these disasters were borne of convenience, others were borne of ignorance and wrongheadedness. But parallels can be drawn to the potentially damaging decision making of the past and some of the faulty reasoning being applied to challenges we face today.

I don't actually believe that Jim Couch makes decisions out of malice to OKC. I personally don't know the man. I also believe that ODOT is trying to do its best for OKC -- AS IT KNOWS HOW TO DO IT. Mayor Cornett has more than proven himself to be a high quality and even occasionally visionary mayor. But none of this is relevant. What is relevant is that those of us who do not wield the power to call the shots need to make our feelings known when bad decisions are being hatched. That is the only chance we have to change direction.

The last few months have shed some light on a series of decisions made outside the public domain that may lead to future disasters. No one wants to complain all the time; "outrage fatigue" is real. And frankly, it's a lot more pleasant to pat folks on the back for a job well done than it is to raise your voice in protest.

Overall, MAPS has been the best thing that has ever happened to this city. Not without its misses of course. But MAPS I and MAPS II are now in the books, so the time to speak out about MAPS III is now. The time to speak out about the Boulevard is now. The course of events is not writ in stone yet, so I ask that some of you give Spartan a break and consider his passion on this issue, whether or not you would handle and/or speak out in the manner he does. He cares about the future of this city as much as any of us, and he raises many truths here.

We need major-league city leadership capable of making major-league decisions if we want to truly become a "big league city." The pieces are mostly in place. But some of that is on us, too. Go to any big city and you'll notice that public input and discussion is always at the forefront of big decisions, and there are various forums to air these discussions. We've seen that in OKC too, but we shouldn't just cede what little power we have as advocates for quality urban planning because "MAPS is good," or "At least we're getting a road fixed," or "The highway turned out OK."

As for our city leadership, we've seen time and time again that they will respond to public concerns, but rarely unless they are forced to do so.

[king183]

Interesting sentiments. I'm in agreement with many, but lean toward what Midtowner is saying as more practical. What is the true solution to this, if an immediate intervention is needed? Being involved in politics and campaigns, I can tell you griping about it on a messge board won't do it (N.B. I'm not saying this discussion is worthless--just that the complaining on this board won't lead to anything by itself). Some true action needs to be taken. Urbanists need to show up to council meetings en masse (not just one or two at a time), they need to be meeting with their city councilmen one-on-one or in small groups, they need to be educating the decision makers.

I can tell you from my years in politics, the most effective way to get what you want is not to be confrontational with a city councilman or representative--they're regular people for the most part and, like regular people, confrontation leads them to step back and then dig in. Seriously, let's start setting up meetings with the councilmen and talking about it one-on-one. If educating them does not work, then confrontation may be necessary, either in the form of ousting them from office or launching a publicity campaign against them.

[Questor]

I've been saying this for a while, although probably not on this forum... if political action committees and the like rule politics at every level, why is there not one established for more urban style development in OKC, and if it is established what is it and how do I donate....

[SouthwestAviator]

I've been saying this for a while, although probably not on this forum... if political action committees and the like rule politics at every level, why is there not one established for more urban style development in OKC, and if it is established what is it and how do I donate....

You can help with this right now. Posted on the Better Boulevard thread. We need everyone's help on this much needed public awareness campaign.

"It has been suggested on several posts, both here and OKC Central, that we formalize this endeavor to build a better boulevard, into and actual formal campaign. Everybody that I talk to seems shocked once they hear what we are actually getting from ODOT. It is obvious that we need to get the information out to the public out and beyond OKC Talk, Central, and our small Facebook group.

I am happy to write that we have a "Don Draper" on our side now (Mad Men viewers will know what I mean). Full-page ads and posters are in the works. We aren't forming a formal non-profit as this will probably be over by December. If people want to donate, email me. We are asking that you write checks directly to the Gazette and the printer as to avoid any concerns.

We will print however much is raised and get it out to the public. It sounds as though we need to get the bulk of this awareness out sooner than later as July 29th is the council meeting at which much of this will be decided, whether the council will respond to us or not.

Best, Bob. friendsforabetterboulevard@gmail.com"