OKC/Tulsa Metroplex?

[Plutonic Panda]

Do any of you think that Oklahoma City and Tulsa might one day form a metroplex, similar to Dallas/Fort Worth, and maybe build joint projects like an international airport(DFW International), high speed rail, super highway ect.? I was thinking it could be a possibility but then again Oklahoma City and Tulsa are very different cities and are farther apart than Dallas and Fort Worth.

[kevinpate]

There's at least a couple of decades of infill needed locally before trying to gobble and fill the 90 or so miles of open land and small town Americana between okc and t-town.

[bombermwc]

I'd say that distance is one that will never be brought together. Both cities seem to be growing in opposite directions anyway. Tulsa to the South and East, OKC to the North and West....or really any direction.

[mmonroe]

Well, some day I'd like to see us link Lawton, Enid, OKC, Tulsa, Muskogee, Pauls Valley, Ardmore, and Ft. Smith all in High Speed (Bullet Train Japan Style *ninja sound) rail... These are our states "Big City's" (Don't quote me on that) but i'd like to see us all connected.

[adaniel]

If it weren't for the fact that the major highway between the 2 is a turnpike with very restricted access you may see some more growth between the two. Plus 100 miles is quite a distance for two cities to grow together.

I will say if Tulsa were located near, say Stroud, that would put it approximately 55 miles from downtown OKC. That would be far enough for two cities to retain separate identities yet close enough for more interaction between the two, similar to Baltimore-Washington.

[venture]

Yeah have to agree. TUL/OKC would likely never grow together. Just too far apart. Still have a lot more local infill to grow. Especially between OKC and Norman. Though I will say over the last 5-10 years that has really boomed and there isn't as much open land as their use to be. Heck I-35 has lights all the way now (when they are on).

For the size of Oklahoma though, geographically, it would be disappointing to see things consolidated between just the two biggest cities. It would be incredibly painful for the Western parts of the state that would be left out in the cold. Especially in terms of air service adding another hour or more to their drive to fly would be devastating to some communities. Though I guess it would help prop LAW up more. Oklahoma has a lot more growing to do first and expanding the smaller communities we have to bring more balance to the state.

[Spartan]

Oh noes it's this thread again

[venture]

Oh noes it's this thread again

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29164

Perhaps you should read that before posting a response in these threads?

[RadicalModerate]

I think that I heard that a Mega-Airport Site is for sale somewhere in the vicinity of Stroud.
And that The Price is Right. (it may even be a long-term bargain).
Yet we are all aware of the pitfalls of actually buying into humbug.
Plus the recent outbreaks of earthquakes in that vicinity
could up the costs of runway construction/maintenance.

(although, i must say that FortCollinsradoSprings, CO seems to be doing OK . . .
or so i've heard, along with all of the expected grumbling about now as compared
to how it used to be.... =)

[mmonroe]

Can someone explain to me why we still have a turnpike? I thought we were to end it when it was paid for? Why does the Memorial Road area have a Turnpike? It all just seems nutty to me.

[Drake]

Well, some day I'd like to see us link Lawton, Enid, OKC, Tulsa, Muskogee, Pauls Valley, Ardmore, and Ft. Smith all in High Speed (Bullet Train Japan Style *ninja sound) rail... These are our states "Big City's" (Don't quote me on that) but i'd like to see us all connected.

So what would the cost on something like that run and who would utilize it?

[Snowman]

I think that I heard that a Mega-Airport Site is for sale somewhere in the vicinity of Stroud.
And that The Price is Right. (it may even be a long-term bargain).
...

You may be thinking of the Clinton/Sherman Airport, though it is not where you expect it to be.

I do not see OKC/Tulsa sprawling together, certainly not in our lifetimes, even the widest tips of LA are not that far apart. It looks like Bristow may be the only rural city along i44 between OKC & Tulsa that did not have negative population growth, even then it's growth was roughly 1/3 of either of OKC or Tulsa.

[Larry OKC]

Can someone explain to me why we still have a turnpike? I thought we were to end it when it was paid for? Why does the Memorial Road area have a Turnpike? It all just seems nutty to me.

I hate turnpikes.

That said, while that is what we were told, there is a loophole that as long as any of the State's turnpikes are still being paid for, none of the turnpikes are paid for. To avoid having them be paid for, they will expand and add ones from time to time. Reportedly, if they ended the turnpike, it would be turned over to ODOT(?) and then the Legislature would have to come up with funds for maint. etc. As they are, the Turnpikes don't receive appropriated money from the Legislature and are largely self supporting.

The Memorial area turnpike serves as another option for folks that want to bypass all of the stop-n-go traffic on Memorial, at highway speeds. You can get from the northern edge of the City out to Yukon without having to go through the congestion of downtown traffic either.Although if one doesn't have a Pike Pass, you still have to stop for those pesky toll booths from time to time.

[BoulderSooner]

I hate turnpikes.

That said, while that is what we were told, there is a loophole that as long as any of the State's turnpikes are still being paid for, none of the turnpikes are paid for. To avoid having them be paid for, they will expand and add ones from time to time. Reportedly, if they ended the turnpike, it would be turned over to ODOT(?) and then the Legislature would have to come up with funds for maint. etc. As they are, the Turnpikes don't receive appropriated money from the Legislature and are largely self supporting.

The Memorial area turnpike serves as another option for folks that want to bypass all of the stop-n-go traffic on Memorial, at highway speeds. You can get from the northern edge of the City out to Yukon without having to go through the congestion of downtown traffic either.Although if one doesn't have a Pike Pass, you still have to stop for those pesky toll booths from time to time.

not a loophole ..... it was voted on and passed by the public to combine all the turnpikes in the state into 1 authority .. and combine debt

[RadicalModerate]

Well, some day I'd like to see us link Lawton, Enid, OKC, Tulsa, Muskogee, Pauls Valley, Ardmore, and Ft. Smith all in High Speed (Bullet Train Japan Style *ninja sound) rail... These are our states "Big City's" (Don't quote me on that) but i'd like to see us all connected.

A "bullet train" . . . Yeah . . . That's the ticket . . .

All of the folks in (for example)
Moore--Norman--Noble--Purcell--Wynnewood--Davis and Dougherty
or
Edmond--Arcadia--Luther--Wellston--Chandler--Stroud--Bristow and Sapulpa
could go out to the tracks and watch the train speed by for free entertainment . . .

It would be sort of like The Interstate Highway System for The New Millennium.

Another benefit of this plan would certainly be the huge improvments in the taxi fleets of Ardmore, Enid, Tulsa, Muskogee and that town in Western Arkansas. (Unless you meant Fort Supply =). Well . . . Taxis or Ride-and-Share Bicycles/Pedalcabs.

[mmonroe]

Radical.... really? You take something fun and make it not fun.

[Larry OKC]

not a loophole ..... it was voted on and passed by the public to combine all the turnpikes in the state into 1 authority .. and combine debt

When was this? I just figured it was more shenanigans by our elected public servants, so thanks for the correction. Was that provision understood by the voters in the summation that appeared on the ballot, or was it even mentioned?

[RadicalModerate]

Radical.... really? You take something fun and make it not fun.

Not fun for whom?
Even the people standing at the train station watching the thing "whoosh" by are having fun.
Unless they expected to actually be able to board the train, of course. That wouldn't be fun.

And at the "Termini" of the bullet train routes, they could even have horse-drawn carriages in addition to the extra taxis and so forth so that you can get around town.

It would really be fun if they developed a New! Improved!! train horn to add to the excitement.
Maybe like something from Star Trek.
Even though there is no actual point to any sounds emanating from a spaceship because there is no air to carry the sound waves.
(And who are all those decorative flashing lights on all those sorts of vehicles for, anyways?)

[BoulderSooner]

When was this? I just figured it was more shenanigans by our elected public servants, so thanks for the correction. Was that provision understood by the voters in the summation that appeared on the ballot, or was it even mentioned?

it was in 1954 .. so you will have to forgive that i can't really tell you how well the voters understood

[RadicalModerate]

In 1954 few people questioned The Government.
(i certainly didn't, but i was only two years old)

[venture]

I guess I look at the turnpikes and enjoy that they are mostly well kept when I have to use them. Do we really want ODOT to take them over to where they eat out of the same budget as the rest of the highway budget? I'm good with them still have tolls. I don't use them that much, but when I have to go the direction they do I have no problem paying.

I still would really like to see a couple new highways added and the turnpike program would probably be the only way for them to happen.
1) Eastern Loop from East Norman to I-44 - to finally provide a true 2nd option to go north.
2) Extension from I-44/SH 34 near Newcastle to North Norman.

[HangryHippo]

A "bullet train" . . . Yeah . . . That's the ticket . . .

All of the folks in (for example)
Moore--Norman--Noble--Purcell--Wynnewood--Davis and Dougherty
or
Edmond--Arcadia--Luther--Wellston--Chandler--Stroud--Bristow and Sapulpa
could go out to the tracks and watch the train speed by for free entertainment . . .

It would be sort of like The Interstate Highway System for The New Millennium.

Another benefit of this plan would certainly be the huge improvments in the taxi fleets of Ardmore, Enid, Tulsa, Muskogee and that town in Western Arkansas. (Unless you meant Fort Supply =). Well . . . Taxis or Ride-and-Share Bicycles/Pedalcabs.

Why in the hell do you write your posts like some cryptic poem with all the weird formatting? It's beyond annoying.

[Larry OKC]

OnlyOne: Thats just his "style", ran across it over in Steve's blog 1st, quickly adjusted to it...just scroll by his posts or go to the extreme of blocking them if they are that annoying.

venture79: I generally agree but object when told one thing and they did another (even if voter approved eons ago...sorry, I wasn't born until '63) also think you should get some sort of discount if you have to slow down for construction etc along the way, after all one of the reason folks are willing to pay to use a turnpike is for the higher speed limits and quickly getting from point A & B...

Isn't there a "spur" from Newcastle to Norman already? Was pretty sure we were on it the last time I was down near Chickasha a couple of years ago???

[venture]

Isn't there a "spur" from Newcastle to Norman already? Was pretty sure we were on it the last time I was down near Chickasha a couple of years ago???

There is, but that is only going to help get you from Norman to SW OK. It does little in the way of providing a western loop to get you up to WRWA or the West Metro area any faster.

[Spartan]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29164

Perhaps you should read that before posting a response in these threads?

Ouch. I was just commenting that this Tulsa-OKC CMSA idea seems to come up every other year, cyclically.