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Thread: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

  1. #1

    Default Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Newsok.com had a comprehensive story on the background of the 16 year-old that has reportedly confessed to shooting 8 people in Bricktown, Avery Meyers Jr.:

    http://newsok.com/bricktown-shooting...rticle/3681113


    Highlights (or more appropriately, low-lights):
    • Father has been arrested more than 20 times
    • Mother arrested many times; recently evicted
    • Long history of domestic violence between parents
    • Mother was 15 when he was born; one of 8 kids (not sure if he's even the oldest)
    • Stopped going to school back in August at age 15


    What an absolute mess of a family. And there are seven more kids in this environment.


    What is society to do in these situations?? This kid had been expelled for fighting, sat around watching gang movies, has horrific parents... And everyone just stands by until he starts spraying bullets into a crowd.

    I don't have answers but this is a much bigger issue than Thunder Alley and that one night.

    We all want to hold people accountable for their actions but he's only 16 and seemed to never really have a chance in life.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Read that this morning and thought the same...No surprise at all with those gems as parents...Not sure much can be done when parents only live for themselves...Only hope would have been grandparents willing to really step up

  3. #3

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy180 View Post
    ...Only hope would have been grandparents willing to really step up
    Not the only hope, but cetainly a hope. Others to step up could include a variety of folk, from a caring teacher (as in above and beyond the call caring), neighbor, parents or other relatives of a close friend, someone who was close to the family and in a more stable circumstance than his family, someone from a church or other outreach. I'm not suggesting a takes a village mantra, but sometimes the person who steps forward comes from outside the immediate family or even the extended family.

    It is a shame the young man didn't have better raising and better impulse controls. He has severely mussed up a number of lives in addition to his own.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    The disintegration of the black family didn't happened in a vacuum all by itself. We have been going down the wrong road for a long time and maybe we need re-evaluate a lot of past decisions.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    The disintegration of the black family didn't happened in a vacuum all by itself. We have been going down the wrong road for a long time and maybe we need re-evaluate a lot of past decisions.
    Like which ones?

  6. Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    I first scoffed when I saw the suggestion on the news (from one of the victims) of praying for the shooter. Now I get it.

    This is one of those only in America phenomenons. People who can't provide a good home life should not be procreating. A child is not a blessing. It is a responsibility. We have a totally screwed up society that is jubilant at child birth and irresponsible at child rearing - and it is a heightened situation the lower down the socioeconomic totem pole you go, regardless of race. I think poor whites are worse.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Sounds like the kid and all of his siblings should have been in foster homes.

    This is why I volunteer here.

    http://www.oklahomalawyersforchildren.camp9.org/

  8. #8

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    It doesn't matter the race and I can't imagine the basis of saying poor white parents are worse than poor black parents - or vice versa. If you have horrible parents living in horrible neighborhoods the poor kids' best hope - maybe only hope - is a responsible extended family member stepping in and rescuing them. The next best thing is for the state to step in and remove the child from the home and get them out of that violent, dysfunctional mess. I personally think it is misguided how hard the state tries to keep children in dysfunctional, violent homes when the best thing that could happen would be to rescue the child before his or her life is destroyed. I don't mean they should take the child - usually, I think they should throw their weight behind extended family and support them in getting custody. It is not a perfect solution but it beats heck out of leaving a child in a violent, terrible home or placing them in foster care.

    But to get back to the problems of black families, my observation is that, so often responsible extended family members are fairly distant. Having dysfuctional children/grand children abusing drugs, being in and out of the criminal justice system and/or living a life that rejects values they hold close invariably results in a splintering of family, eventually. We've all seen nice families with a troubled family member who just wears out his brothers and sisters if not his parents. Due to that dynamic, so many black kids are often left in the charge of awful parents with fewer responsible extended members available to intervene. After several generations of this, grandma may be close by but just as messed up as the mother because this has been going on for several generations. And yet, their cousins might not have gone that route and would be wonderful homes if they had any influence over the situation or made themselves available.

    At this point in time, a lot of simply awful white parents still have extended family with some sense nearby that might step in, but in another generation or so many will be far enough removed from responsible relatives that the troubled white kids will be in the same boat as so many of today's troubled black kids. Twenty years ago when I was working at the district attorney's office, I would see "poor white trash" come in on charges. It was about half and half - the first half frequently brought their kids and they were in dirty clothes that looked like they came out of a rag bag. They ran around practically unsupervised with no toys brought along to keep them occupied. No grandparents came to support them or if they did, they looked like meth heads. Those kids were in a second or third generation of dysfunctionality.

    The other half would be young white parents who looked pretty scruggy but their nicely dressed parents would be there and, invariably, the children would be well dressed (in clothes bought by grandma, no doubt), with toys to play with to keep them occupied and a courtroom that had a number of responsible looking families members there for support even for minor hearings. All the difference in the world and still time for a family to turn around a downward spiral into poverty and all that goes with it.

    But it isn't just about being poor - a well off parent who is working and married, living in a nice home can still be a clueless parent who doesn't understand what parenting is all about. We see them all the time letting their little darlings run wild in public being nuisances. But those poor neglected kids won't have the same skill sets their parents were taught and the whole thing is just tragic.

    And single parenthood - which hits younger parents and poorer people in far greater numbers - is just so hard. I recall one particular time as a guardian ad litem being in a restaurant with a nice single young mother of a four year old who was running absolutely wild. "I can't control him," sez she. Well, she didn't even try. I finally looked at her and said, "You do realize this is the most control you will ever have over that child? What is he going to be doing in ten years, do you suppose?" She just shrugged. Fact is, she was a nice girl but exhausted trying to raise a child on her own. She loved him but without the father supporting her (and I don't just mean financially) and without family close by to help her, she was just treading water on a good day. Single parenthood is a recipe for disaster, so often. Certainly it can be done and has been done, but for those people on the edge, it is often just too much. Moreover, their personal lives often tend to be chaotic because they are raising children and trying to date at the same time with all the drama that goes along with that. I feel sorry for all of them. That being said, we can't have people spraying a crowd with bullets. That is a person so damaged that he or she must be removed from society until they can get themselves under control.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Why did this turn into a racial thing?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew View Post
    Why did this turn into a racial thing?
    It didn't have to. Still, a lot of people are frustrated with senseless violent crime that seems to come more heavily than you'd expect, based on the numbers, from the black community. And the numbers truly are stunning and tragic. That being said, in my opinion, you get the same result from young people if you raise them so poorly no matter what race they are.

  11. Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    It doesn't matter the race and I can't imagine the basis of saying poor white parents are worse than poor black parents - or vice versa. If you have horrible parents living in horrible neighborhoods the poor kids' best hope - maybe only hope - is a responsible extended family member stepping in and rescuing them. The next best thing is for the state to step in and remove the child from the home and get them out of that violent, dysfunctional mess. I personally think it is misguided how hard the state tries to keep children in dysfunctional, violent homes when the best thing that could happen would be to rescue the child before his or her life is destroyed. I don't mean they should take the child - usually, I think they should throw their weight behind extended family and support them in getting custody. It is not a perfect solution but it beats heck out of leaving a child in a violent, terrible home or placing them in foster care.

    But to get back to the problems of black families, my observation is that, so often responsible extended family members are fairly distant. Having dysfuctional children/grand children abusing drugs, being in and out of the criminal justice system and/or living a life that rejects values they hold close invariably results in a splintering of family, eventually. We've all seen nice families with a troubled family member who just wears out his brothers and sisters if not his parents. Due to that dynamic, so many black kids are often left in the charge of awful parents with fewer responsible extended members available to intervene. After several generations of this, grandma may be close by but just as messed up as the mother because this has been going on for several generations. And yet, their cousins might not have gone that route and would be wonderful homes if they had any influence over the situation or made themselves available.

    At this point in time, a lot of simply awful white parents still have extended family with some sense nearby that might step in, but in another generation or so many will be far enough removed from responsible relatives that the troubled white kids will be in the same boat as so many of today's troubled black kids. Twenty years ago when I was working at the district attorney's office, I would see "poor white trash" come in on charges. It was about half and half - the first half frequently brought their kids and they were in dirty clothes that looked like they came out of a rag bag. They ran around practically unsupervised with no toys brought along to keep them occupied. No grandparents came to support them or if they did, they looked like meth heads. Those kids were in a second or third generation of dysfunctionality.

    The other half would be young white parents who looked pretty scruggy but their nicely dressed parents would be there and, invariably, the children would be well dressed (in clothes bought by grandma, no doubt), with toys to play with to keep them occupied and a courtroom that had a number of responsible looking families members there for support even for minor hearings. All the difference in the world and still time for a family to turn around a downward spiral into poverty and all that goes with it.

    But it isn't just about being poor - a well off parent who is working and married, living in a nice home can still be a clueless parent who doesn't understand what parenting is all about. We see them all the time letting their little darlings run wild in public being nuisances. But those poor neglected kids won't have the same skill sets their parents were taught and the whole thing is just tragic.

    And single parenthood - which hits younger parents and poorer people in far greater numbers - is just so hard. I recall one particular time as a guardian ad litem being in a restaurant with a nice single young mother of a four year old who was running absolutely wild. "I can't control him," sez she. Well, she didn't even try. I finally looked at her and said, "You do realize this is the most control you will ever have over that child? What is he going to be doing in ten years, do you suppose?" She just shrugged. Fact is, she was a nice girl but exhausted trying to raise a child on her own. She loved him but without the father supporting her (and I don't just mean financially) and without family close by to help her, she was just treading water on a good day. Single parenthood is a recipe for disaster, so often. Certainly it can be done and has been done, but for those people on the edge, it is often just too much. Moreover, their personal lives often tend to be chaotic because they are raising children and trying to date at the same time with all the drama that goes along with that. I feel sorry for all of them. That being said, we can't have people spraying a crowd with bullets. That is a person so damaged that he or she must be removed from society until they can get themselves under control.
    Penny, could you give us a cliff notes version?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    I first scoffed when I saw the suggestion on the news (from one of the victims) of praying for the shooter. Now I get it.

    This is one of those only in America phenomenons. People who can't provide a good home life should not be procreating. A child is not a blessing. It is a responsibility. We have a totally screwed up society that is jubilant at child birth and irresponsible at child rearing - and it is a heightened situation the lower down the socioeconomic totem pole you go, regardless of race. I think poor whites are worse.
    This is so true it is not even funny.

    I cannot believe the increasing flippancy that some people (regardless of race) approach the issue of child rearing. Everyone is so excited when a woman announces her pregnancy, then is nowhere to be found when the kid pops out. Someone recently told me that they were ready to have a kid because they wanted "something to love." Really?!? If you need something to love go get a beagle! You are talking about a human being.

    I have seen so many other people get pregnant with no resources and simply say, "we'll work it out." I seriously want to slap these people because their stupidity is just maddening. I also pray for their children. These kids coming into these homes seriously have no chance. More than anything else this is the reason for birth control. I know people have legitimate objections to abortions. But I really wish more people, instead of lying to themselves that they can raise a kid when they clearly cannot, would look into adoptions.

    Also if you think this is a "minority thing" I think you are very mistaken. I would recommend you read "Coming Apart" by Charles Murray. He quite a conservative guy, yet in his book he details may issues that are now plaguing the white working class in this country, many of which are not that different from the AA community, including the haphazard way many are approaching child rearing.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    You think all of this might cause some people to say, you know - legalizing drugs might not be a good idea after all because drug addicted people make bad parents. I doubt that will happen though. Anyone have any thoughts on replacing fathers with a non-judgemental, non-loving, and non-nurturing government check?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Newsok.com had a comprehensive story on the background of the 16 year-old that has reportedly confessed to shooting 8 people in Bricktown, Avery Meyers Jr.:

    http://newsok.com/bricktown-shooting...rticle/3681113


    Highlights (or more appropriately, low-lights):
    • Father has been arrested more than 20 times
    • Mother arrested many times; recently evicted
    • Long history of domestic violence between parents
    • Mother was 15 when he was born; one of 8 kids (not sure if he's even the oldest)
    • Stopped going to school back in August at age 15


    What an absolute mess of a family. And there are seven more kids in this environment.


    What is society to do in these situations?? This kid had been expelled for fighting, sat around watching gang movies, has horrific parents... And everyone just stands by until he starts spraying bullets into a crowd.

    I don't have answers but this is a much bigger issue than Thunder Alley and that one night.

    We all want to hold people accountable for their actions but he's only 16 and seemed to never really have a chance in life.

    Is this not precisely why people have passed "three-time-loser" laws?
    Three felonies, and you get Life, or until you are too feeble to offend.
    It is a sad-but-necessary-part of having a civilized society.
    Failure to do so, means this will continue and expand, exponentially.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    I first scoffed when I saw the suggestion on the news (from one of the victims) of praying for the shooter. Now I get it.

    This is one of those only in America phenomenons. People who can't provide a good home life should not be procreating. A child is not a blessing. It is a responsibility. We have a totally screwed up society that is jubilant at child birth and irresponsible at child rearing - and it is a heightened situation the lower down the socioeconomic totem pole you go, regardless of race. I think poor whites are worse.
    I not only pray for the victims but for the shooter and his siblings too.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    It's a funny thing... Almost everyone would agree that adults should be held responsible for their actions. That's basically what everyone is saying here about the parents.

    But, his parents were probably brought up in a very similar way. His mom had him when she was just 15, after all.


    It's such a hard line to try and draw, isn't it? Almost everyone agrees this 16 year-old shooter never had a real chance in life, yet if this had happened when he was a couple of years older, there wouldn't be nearly the sympathy.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    it's a funny thing... Almost everyone would agree that adults should be held responsible for their actions. That's basically what everyone is saying here about the parents.

    But, his parents were probably brought up in a very similar way. His mom had him when she was just 15, after all.


    It's such a hard line to try and draw, isn't it? Almost everyone agrees this 16 year-old shooter never had a real chance in life, yet if this had happened when he was a couple of years older, there wouldn't be nearly the sympathy.
    Tough Love.
    Parents will understand this.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Penny, could you give us a cliff notes version?

    It is a complicated issue that doesn't lend itself to sound bites. All too easy to say this is bad, this is good but it does a horrible disservice to children who are impacted. There are a lot of ways to get to poor, a lot of ways to get to tragedy. A lot of ways to address it, some work well and others not so much.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by adaniel View Post
    This is so true it is not even funny.

    I cannot believe the increasing flippancy that some people (regardless of race) approach the issue of child rearing. Everyone is so excited when a woman announces her pregnancy, then is nowhere to be found when the kid pops out. Someone recently told me that they were ready to have a kid because they wanted "something to love." Really?!? If you need something to love go get a beagle! You are talking about a human being.

    I have seen so many other people get pregnant with no resources and simply say, "we'll work it out." I seriously want to slap these people because their stupidity is just maddening. I also pray for their children. These kids coming into these homes seriously have no chance. More than anything else this is the reason for birth control. I know people have legitimate objections to abortions. But I really wish more people, instead of lying to themselves that they can raise a kid when they clearly cannot, would look into adoptions.

    Also if you think this is a "minority thing" I think you are very mistaken. I would recommend you read "Coming Apart" by Charles Murray. He quite a conservative guy, yet in his book he details may issues that are now plaguing the white working class in this country, many of which are not that different from the AA community, including the haphazard way many are approaching child rearing.
    That is part of the problem with the argument people have with abortion, so many times (not to change the subject). You always hear the argument that "every child should be wanted" with the stereotypical notion that the abused/neglected kids were an accident and because of that their parents didn't want them and treat them badly. That typically isn't the reality. The ones with doubts about having a child often turn into fantastic parents because they are realistic and with goals a baby can upend - thus the angst. But they also are the best equipped, so many times, to adjust to a new reality. The ones who end up abusing and neglected their kids, most of the time, are the ones who want them for all the wrong reasons - primarily to give their empty lives meaning. You go to the pound and see all the pups abandoned and abused as soon as they got aggravating - that is a close approximation of what happens to abused and neglected children, sadly. Unfortunately, the kids aren't just dropped off by families that move onto something else - they are left in abusive, neglectful families and when they are big enough, it is like turning an enraged pit bull on society. No offense to pit bulls.

    And I completely agree with you that this isn't a race issue. The AA community has led the way down a path of distruction but many trashy white people are doing exactly the same thing at a break neck pace and in ever incresing numbers.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadhawg View Post
    I not only pray for the victims but for the shooter and his siblings too.
    Absolutely.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    I just read that births to unwed mothers in the U.S. has increased from 5% in 1960 to 37% (!) in 2005. Fully 70% (!!) of African Americans are born to unwed mothers.

    Certainly, there are lots of unmarried women that provide great environments for children, but these numbers and trends are staggering.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I just read that births to unwed mothers in the U.S. has increased from 5% in 1960 to 37% (!) in 2005. Fully 70% (!!) of African Americans are born to unwed mothers.

    Certainly, there are lots of unmarried women that provide great environments for children, but these numbers and trends are staggering.
    Most single mothers do an heroic job raising children on their own.
    They are simply overwhelmed by culture and societal forces and "the hood" when it comes to raising boys without fathers.
    Check out prisons. How many had fathers, real fathers who participated, in their homes?
    It is simple cause-and-effect.

  23. Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Unfortunately for the child the mothers are seeing each kid as another couple hundred dollar paycheck from the gov't. No emotional attachment to the child so they dont care.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    ...Certainly, there are lots of unmarried women that provide great environments for children,...
    This simply isn't possible. Until we start telling the truth we can't implement a solution. Children need a loving mother AND father. Anything short of that isn't a great environment, no matter how great the mother is at her half of the equation.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Bricktown Shooter: parents arrested dozens of times

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    This simply isn't possible. Until we start telling the truth we can't implement a solution. Children need a loving mother AND father. Anything short of that isn't a great environment, no matter how great the mother is at her half of the equation.
    So . . . How does that paradigm align with The Ghey Civilmarriage Movement?
    Not to mention the FederalDHS Take'sAVillageChildRearing Centers that are on the drawing boards?

    Even if I agree with you, it still sounds like Non-Millennialist NeanderthalOldeSchoolTraditionalFamilycentrism.
    Not that there's anything "wrong"with that . . .

    Back, For The Future!

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