General Urban Development

[Just the facts]

But, until there is proper infrastructure in place, ie mass trans, there has to be an allowance for cars. Normally development follows infrastructure, not the other way around.

The problem is that it is difficult to implement mass transit in a world scaled to the automobile. Destinations and resources are simply spread too thin. The change has to start some time and there is no better time the present to start scaling development to the human and not something capable of 70 mph. To be successful, all mass transit trips must start with and end with walking.

[BoulderSooner]

The problem is that it is difficult to implement mass transit in a world scaled to the automobile. Destinations and resources are simply spread too thin. The change has to start some time and there is no better time the present to start scaling development to the human and not something capable of 70 mph. To be successful, all mass transit trips must start with and end with walking.

you can't just say .. no more 70mph ... and only 2 lane streets .. in the short and mid term you would crush economic development ... long term it might work ..

changing the "car" culture .. is going to be a long term process

[Just the facts]

you can't just say .. no more 70mph ... and only 2 lane streets .. in the short and mid term you would crush economic development ... long term it might work ..

changing the "car" culture .. is going to be a long term process

I actually expect it to happen naturally, whether we want it to or not. Every government in the US is going broke trying to support suburbia and gasoline prices are going to force the issue for us. So places can either make plans for that eventuality or they don’t. The ones that do will reap the economic rewards and the ones that don't will fade away into the sunset. Suburbia was created in 1945, urban living has been in existence since the dawn of time and is still the primary form development around the world.

[BoulderSooner]

I actually expect it to happen naturally, whether we want it to or not. Every government in the US is going broke trying to support suburbia and gasoline prices are going to force the issue for us. So places can either make plans for that eventuality or they don’t. The ones that do will reap the economic rewards and the ones that don't will fade away into the sunset. Suburbia was created in 1945, urban living has been in existence since the dawn of time and is still the primary form development around the world.

the oklahoma state and city govts .. are not "going broke"

[Just the facts]

the oklahoma state and city govts .. are not "going broke"

They just can't afford to repave P180 streets, fix a crumbling capitol building, or finish a museum.

Granted though, the problem is not as sever in Oklahoma as it is in a lot of places.

[Just the facts]

And now a story form the "No Duh" file.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...lth/55162620/1

New evidence shows that a long commute by car not only takes hours out of your day, but could take years off your life.

A study published this month in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that the longer people drive to work, the more likely they are to have poor cardiovascular health.

"This is the first study to show that people who commute long distances to work were less fit, weighed more, were less physically active and had higher blood pressure," said Christine M. Hoehner, a public health professor at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the study's lead author. "All those are strong predictors of heart disease, diabetes, and some cancers."

[Spartan]

I think we need to bring this conversation back down to earth a little, or at least to a closer orbit..

Fixing the OK Korral would have involved some very minor tweaks. It would have been a very routine design review process, but the City did not chose to do that because they would have been perceived as anti-children's hospital. Honestly they could have spun it as working with the developer to help improve the project and bring even greater value to the community.

City codes shouldn't be treated as a nebulous scepter to cross your fingers to get around, just as city code shouldn't be something that we beat bad developers upside the head with. City code exists in the form that it does because we have determined, through a public process, that this is how we want our city to be built - they are constructive building guidelines that make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

[kevinpate]

They just can't afford to repave P180 streets, fix a crumbling capitol building, or finish a museum.s.

fwiw, lacking the will/spine to make an unpopular or hard choice to take action is different than lacking the resources to fund the action. Could be wrong, but there seems to be more funding than will or spine available to many decision makers.

[Just the facts]

fwiw, lacking the will/spine to make an unpopular or hard choice to take action is different than lacking the resources to fund the action. Could be wrong, but there seems to be more funding than will or spine available to many decision makers.

You might be right about that but since the City, State, and Federal are not running surpluses they are spending the money on something. How much debt do you think the State would be in if they weren't getting funding from the federal government (who has to borrow all that money on the State's behalf)? That is kind of like a wife saying she isn't broke because her husband takes out a loan every month to give her spending money.

[grandshoemaster]

And now a story form the "No Duh" file.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...lth/55162620/1

What is your point?

[Just the facts]

What is your point?

No point other than living in a car-culture is making us un-healthy. That wouldn't be a problem if taxes weren't spent building freeways, bailing out auto companies, having wars to ensure the free flow of oil at market prices, and then also having to pick up the healthcare cost of people who chose to drive to the store instead of walking to the store (of course they can't walk to the store even if they wanted to because modern planning has created an environment scaled to the automobile). The taxpayer is tapped out but we have a huge tax liablity overhead in place.

[grandshoemaster]

So people should just live in an urban setting as supposed to the suburbs because of these issues? I live in the suburbs and work downtown. So I commute everyday to work and I am in perfect health. However, I work out almost everyday and eat somewhat healthy. That has nothing to do with where I choose to live and how I choose to get to work. That article doesn't make sense in my world.

[Snowman]

If you torture statistics hard enough, they will tell you anything you want to hear.

[Dubya61]

If you torture statistics hard enough, they will tell you anything you want to hear.

Amen, Lawdy-Mama

[SOONER8693]

If you torture statistics hard enough, they will tell you anything you want to hear.

I think it was Mark Twain that said, "statistics are like a cheap whore, once you throw them down there, you can do about anything you want with them".

[Just the facts]

I guess holding such beliefs allows anyone to ignore anything that doesn't suit their needs. My guess is very few people commenting on statistics actually read the article. On a side note, I decided to take up smoking now that I can disregard all the crazy smoking statistics. Can anyone recommend a brand to a new smoker?

[Snowman]

My reason for bringing statistics up is while the average driving distance increasing may play a part in obesity rates but it is by no means even close to the entire reason, driving certainly allows you to ignore the problem longer. The changes in diet, food available/promoted, activity levels on jobs, the jobs people do, activities around the house, time spent exercising have all dramatically shifted over the recent decades and play a part. Compared to twenty years ago the average commute in OKC is not a whole lot longer than it was then but the obesity rate is more than doubled over that time frame.

[kevinpate]

I guess holding such beliefs allows anyone to ignore anything that doesn't suit their needs. My guess is very few people commenting on statistics actually read the article. On a side note, I decided to take up smoking now that I can disregard all the crazy smoking statistics. Can anyone recommend a brand to a new smoker?

Perhaps a Joe 20?
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/outdoor...ker-54083.html

oh, wait, you meant .... nevah mind.

[Bellaboo]

Perhaps a Joe 20?
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/outdoor...ker-54083.html

oh, wait, you meant .... nevah mind.

HAHA Good One.........

[Larry OKC]

You may not be far off... while back there was some study that grilling/smoking meats only added to the suggested carcinogenic factors of eating red meat anyway...

[kevinpate]

... study that grilling/smoking meats only added to the suggested carcinogenic factors of eating red meat anyway...

one man's carcinogenic factors is another fella's flavor nodes.

[Larry OKC]

I would be in the later

[circuitboard]

Would the building at 802 NW 8th, built in 1910 be protected from being torn down if one was to buy it?

[Spartan]

Are the SoSA people wanting to tear it down now?

You could probably buy it for pretty cheap, save for the typical SoSA land spec rates.

[Just the facts]

I watched a program last night on urban development and one thing I thought was a different approch to traffic problems was a city in South America (don't remember which one) implemented a bus rapid transit system and then started removing downtown parking spaces. Now they do not allow any more parking spaces to be built. To quote the mayor, he said people complain to him about not being able to a park their car, he tells them it is their car and their problem. They might as well complain to him that they don't have anywhere to hang their clothes either. In short, if you buy a private good the city has no reason to provide you a parking space for it. They provide mass transit, not parking spaces.

Of course, you can't do this in OKC yet because we don't have a regional mass transit system, but maybe some day.