Kd's Restaurant / Legacy Grill

[G.Walker]

People complained about when they were going to put something on that vacant lot, then somebody stepped up to put something on that vacant lot, and people are still complaining, go figure. Reminds me of the same conversations re Chris Johnson's House of Bedlam development on the canal.

Hogan's building is for a restaurant people, a restaurant. I wouldn't expect more for a restaurant.

[sroberts24]

I know Mr. Hogan and worked for him for a year at their management office in Lower Bricktown. He is in no way a scumbag! He is a really good guy and was really great towards me and my wife and gave me a great job while I was still in school. I can't say enough about the guy!

Yes what has been developed in LB isn't structurally what we all want to see for the area but it is something, and that is better than nothing. And it has arguably been the most successful development in Bricktown.

I had also heard the the Aloft was originally planned to be next to the land run monuments but the city vetoed that because they thought it would cover the land run monuments. That may have changed some people's views of LB as a whole, maybe not.

[Just the facts]

doing something =/= doing the right thing.

[onthestrip]

Hogan's building is for a restaurant people, a restaurant. I wouldn't expect more for a restaurant.

You can and should expect more, especially a patio. How do you have a restaurant on the canal and not have patio dining? Absurd really. I just hope that they will have one and the rendering isnt showing it.

[betts]

I was once at a home tour at the same time as a local architect. He leaned over and said to me, "Oh to have their money and my taste!" Perhaps that's what we're dealing with here. Maybe this all looks good to Randy Hogan et al. Obviously people have differing tastes, and perhaps lower Bricktown was someone's idea of beautiful. It is true that the Centennial condos sell really quickly. It's a sterilized version of urban living you get there, and it may be that in a city where people aren't accustomed to living in an urban area, it feels safe. If you're used to suburban "North Dallas" style architecture, this looks good perhaps.

[Larry OKC]

People complained about when they were going to put something on that vacant lot, then somebody stepped up to put something on that vacant lot, and people are still complaining, go figure. Reminds me of the same conversations re Chris Johnson's House of Bedlam development on the canal.

Hogan's building is for a restaurant people, a restaurant. I wouldn't expect more for a restaurant.

Why not???

[Just the facts]

The problem with low standards is that they are usually met.

[sooner88]

How is Hogan a scumbag? Because he is not building what you all want? I know him very well and know that he is anything but a "scumbag". The proposals at the beginning of LBT were all plans that were followed through on until they failed for different reasons (Edwards theatre, gameworks, etc)

[Larry OKC]

What do you call what can be typical developer bait-n-switch? Presenting renderings in their proposals to get the job and the final product bearing little resemblance to what was pitched??? You know, saying they are going to build what people want and then don't.

[BDP]

Hogan's building is for a restaurant people, a restaurant. I wouldn't expect more for a restaurant.

?

Why not? There are many examples of restaurants in interesting developments all over the place. But this is different. As a tax payer, you actually invested in this property. If there were a case where you SHOULD expect more, this is it.

However, like I said before, the boat has sailed on lower bricktown. To do a development right down there now would almost look out of place and only server to shame the rest of it.

We need to learn from this though. We never should have given the canal to a developer that was going to totally ignore it. We need to acknowledge that we seem to have had some bad luck with a lot of developments to which we have given significant public assistance. It has worked out sometimes, but the amount of unimpressive results seems to warrant some reevaluation of the process and some better oversight in the future. We can all easily point out how much better the city is before these projects, but I'm afraid any competitive advantage gained will be short lived as more ambitious projects are taken on in the region and that support for public investment in other developments will be tempered as a result of some of the uninspiring results we have had.

The reality is that mid-town and uptown now have most of the potential and, in a lot of ways, are already more interesting districts to visit than lower bricktown.

[BDP]

The above buildings just look like a Disneyworld version of something.

True, but it certainly had a lot more space for a better mix and density of tenants that Hogan could probably be leasing now. As it is now, it still looks fairly disneyfied, albeit half assed, and LBT is pretty much done.

[Larry OKC]

Having lived 10 miles from Disney property and having a season pass to the Magic Kingdom/EPCOT (was out there at least once a month if not more) back in my high school/college days, I would welcome anything Disneyesque. Certainly an improvement over what is being proposed now.

[BDP]

Having lived 10 miles from Disney property and having a season pass to the Magic Kingdom/EPCOT (was out there at least once a month if not more) back in my high school/college days, I would welcome anything Disneyesque. Certainly an improvement over what is being proposed now.

Yeah. If that's the choice, I would take it, too. And honestly, I would just take anything that had more density of leaseable space at this point and maybe at least acknowledged the existence of the canal.

[Just the facts]

Yeah. If that's the choice, I would take it, too. And honestly, I would just take anything that had more density of leaseable space at this point and maybe at least acknowledged the existence of the canal.

Why? The customers all arrive by car on the other side of the building. That is the real failure of Lower Bricktown. People arrive at Upper Bricktown by car also, but they park in a garage and walk to their destination. If Lower Bricktown had built a large parking garage instead of 20 acres of surface parking the canal would have been the focus.

[BDP]

Why?

Because then there would be more stuff to do. Strange, but I think we said the same thing. If a garage was built instead of surface parking, that would allow for more leasable space configured more densely. leading to more attractions and making it worth driving to in the first place.

[Just the facts]

BDP - I understand that and you understand that (and I venture to say that most of OKCTalk understands that) - but Randy Hogan doesn't understand that. The LB mistake was made long ago and I am just waiting 15 more years for the Lower Bricktown Business Improvement District plan (ala Meridian and I-240) to be annouced so they can find a way to 'fix' it - when the solution is soooooo simple and could be put in effect today. Make people walk and density will take care of itself.

[soonerguru]

How is Hogan a scumbag? Because he is not building what you all want? I know him very well and know that he is anything but a "scumbag". The proposals at the beginning of LBT were all plans that were followed through on until they failed for different reasons (Edwards theatre, gameworks, etc)

You're right. He seems like a nice guy. I was trying to point out that he's the only guy who has truly succeeded in selling downtown condos. Not a fan of his development project, and I fervently supported him over Moshe Tal.

Hogan is not scummy, he just overpromises and underdelivers, as he has on most of his development projects. But he was able to sell downtown condos!

[G.Walker]

The harsh reality of it, is that there are more people who don't care about how Lower Bricktown is developed, than the people who do.

[BoulderSooner]

You're right. He seems like a nice guy. I was trying to point out that he's the only guy who has truly succeeded in selling downtown condos. Not a fan of his development project, and I fervently supported him over Moshe Tal.

Hogan is not scummy, he just overpromises and underdelivers, as he has on most of his development projects. But he was able to sell downtown condos!

he is not the only guys that has succeeded in selling downtown condos

[dankrutka]

Again, he's building next to a nice canal and not even putting a patio outside of his building. How can this guy take pride in himself professionally? What a joke of a development. I would much rather this land remained vacant until at least an average developer could get ahold of it. It's dumbfounding.

[Bellaboo]

Again, he's building next to a nice canal and not even putting a patio outside of his building. How can this guy take pride in himself professionally? What a joke of a development. I would much rather this land remained vacant until at least an average developer could get ahold of it. It's dumbfounding.

Maybe Hal Smith Group requested it without a patio ?

[Bill Robertson]

Maybe Hal Smith Group requested it without a patio ?

Or maybe they looked at the fact that their future neighbors enclosed their patio because it does better business wise enclosed than it did open. It is a business after all.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Look closer. The building does have a patio.

[G.Walker]

I don't understand why people get so worked up about renderings. Out all people, OKCTALK people should know projects never turn out exactly like their renderings.

[Spartan]

Hmm. I'm not sure how this deal makes Hogan a scumbag, and while I still would never call him that, I can think of a few deals that are at least a little closer to that in reality. Not the KD restaurant.

This isn't bad. I am actually pleasantly surprised here. I still wish CenterPoint Market was being built with the KD restaurant on the canal level, but oh well. I would have thought KD would want a little more monumental design for his namesake, but if it were my namesake I guess this would be good enough...