Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[damonsmuz]

The ATR's were always funky to park. It really depended on the layout of the terminal. Back in my ASA days, we would pull up to the terminal and then swing the plane around so that the nose of the plane was facing the taxiway. In other words, from the terminal, you'd see the butt of the plane. It was to prevent people from having to walk all the way around the plane.

Some terminals are better designed and the ATR will swing in sideways and the jetbridge will feed right toward the back of the plane.

Venture, you should check out Silver Airways. They're a lot like Great Lakes... starting service on EAS routes across Montana soon. SAABs and 1900D aircraft. I wonder if these SAAB's are the old AE 340'S.

Anyone know if Guymon has ever tried to get EAS service via Great Lakes? The way Great Lakes routes flight, it could easily happen via some other city in Kansas.

[OUman]

Some terminals are better designed and the ATR will swing in sideways and the jetbridge will feed right toward the back of the plane.

That's what Eagle did at DFW with its ATR 72-500s at Terminal B. It parked them sideways and the jetway just docked to the rear door. It's a shame they're no longer at DFW, only MIA and SJU (San Juan Int'l) are getting those now. I have a feeling that eventually all ATRs will be relegated to SJU since they do work pretty well for island hopping.

[venture]

Most of the ATRs are actually just getting parked and pulled out of SJU. There will be some left in MIA from what I've read. SJU is really getting spun down compared to what it use to be for AA.

[OUman]

Yeah AA de-hubbed SJU a few years back. Now Jetblue is filling the void though.

[damonsmuz]

Anyone know if WN's new 737-800's will come to OKC in the near future? Cerainly there's gotta be a few insiders here that know

[bombermwc]

With the ATR's, i think part of the issue with public perception is how public the few accidents they've had, were. If you look at what accidents there have been for the ATR fleet, it's pretty freaking short. If you're comparing to other crash rates, you're looking at a very safe airplane. But the accidents that have happened have been some very publicized ones...like the icing incident in Indiana.

But the props are generally pretty loud and slower. That's a big pull for the public. And hey, the public likes the big birds (admittedly, myself included) and you just don't see props on the big birds these days.

[OUman]

^I don't know if you've flown in the ATR 72-500, but it sounds nothing like a prop during climbout and cruise (especially during cruise). It sounds pretty close to say, a 737 in the cabin. Only on taxiing and takeoff do you hear the props, but ATR has done a pretty good job in terms of minimizing the prop noise. And because it has 6-blade props with more powerful engines, the slight difference in speed is negligeble for runs of approximately an hour or less, which is exactly what they're designed for. I've flown in the 72-500 twice now and liked it both times. The Bombardier Q400 is also just as fast, but that's about all I can say about it. It is loud, and OKC-IAH is about all I can take of that plane. LOL

[venture]

Anyone know if WN's new 737-800's will come to OKC in the near future? Cerainly there's gotta be a few insiders here that know

Unlikely for now. They'll go on higher demand routes until they begin Hawaii service. It is interesting to note that AUS-DCA application mentioned being operated by the 737-800 instead of the 700s. I would think if they get the slots for OKC and the route is strong, we could see a 800 on that route.

[venture]

Storms in Dallas this morning brought a few visitors.

772 from NRT
M80 from IND
M80 from DSM
738 from LGA
M80 from SLC

Saw the 777 leave a bit ago...pretty site.

[OUman]

^I bet. A few years back when the controllers in the DFW towers had to evacuate because of a possible tornado, OKC got many diversions even though it was raining here too, although it was just a cold rain. At that time OKC had two heavies from Korean Air, a 777-200ER and a 747-400 Freighter. That must have been pretty neat to see parked on the ramp. On another note, AA had a 777 diversion not too long ago as well.

[damonsmuz]

777 from NRT and no one could take a pic. Bummer...

[venture]

777 from NRT and no one could take a pic. Bummer...

Well...not that great but...

[OUman]

I know there is a thread for this already but it does have possibly big implications for OKC:

Yahoo! Finance article on a possible U.S. Airways takeover of AA.

As expected, there are quite a few people on the blogs and forums not happy with this, but hey, it's the consolidation era and AA is the only one left. Plus, its large Airbus order probably only worked to advance this further.

[ljbab728]

This indicates it may be posturing and there is no more indication of a merger than before.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-airli...--finance.html

[OUman]

^Yes that's why I said "possible", AA's unions have just shown their support for a merger. Of course it's nowhere close to actual merger talks with AMR yet. AMR hasn't even presented its alternate plan in court like the article said.

[Oil Capital]

This indicates it may be posturing and there is no more indication of a merger than before.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-airli...--finance.html

Perhaps posturing on the part of the unions, but it shows us more than ever that USAir is dead serious about pursuing a merger.

[Oil Capital]

^Yes that's why I said "possible", AA's unions have just shown their support for a merger. Of course it's nowhere close to actual merger talks with AMR yet. AMR hasn't even presented its alternate plan in court like the article said.

With AMR being in bankruptcy, merger talks with AMR are not necessary for a merger to happen.

[venture]

We talked about this what...3-4 months back on the possibility this was going to happen. Dougie Parker wants to be #1. He tried to take over Delta, talked with United before the CO marriage, and now AA is the last viable candidate. The supposed labor agreements call for Delta's (#2 in size currently) pay scale + 3%. This brings flash backs of "Parity + 1%" that US Airways had prior to the first bankruptcy. Would this be sustainable? We'll see. Southwest's unions are all in negotiations now I believe as their contracts expire this year or already have. Southwest currently leads the industry in wages (the highest) and normally they get a raise each time a new contract comes out. Chances are we are seeing where DP is taking this into account and know the new AA will have higher yields than WN and can be more competitive at wages still below that of WN. Not bad if they can make it work.

The unions make up 3 of the 9(?) seats on the reorganization committee, so this is pretty big. No it isn't a merger in process right now and US and AMR haven't held publicly acknowledge merger talks. They are running out of time though. If the committee likes what DP is selling they can push this through faster. The synergies between the two is pretty good. The more relaxed Scope of US is great news for smaller communities to get something more than 50 seater. With the strength of AA in Oklahoma it would be good news for us. It should save more jobs for Tulsa and could mean more air service for both TUL (logical to get aircraft there) and OKC (CLT and/or PHL finally).

We'll see what happens. This is a very good way to force US's unions to finally get in line as they'll be outvoted by the AA unions when it comes to integration and contracts.

[ljbab728]

Continued good news for Will Rogers passenger traffic levels. I'm at a loss to understand why Tulsa is continuing to have problems though.

http://newsok.com/extended-spring-br...rticle/3668207

[Bunty]

Stillwater is in the early stages of trying to land passenger air service: http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x2...gional-airline

[venture]

Not sure Stillwater would be able to land anything without a revenue guarantee to secure the service for at least 18 months. Not sure they would be able to support it or at the very least get any airline to listen.

[ljbab728]

Not sure Stillwater would be able to land anything without a revenue guarantee to secure the service for at least 18 months. Not sure they would be able to support it or at the very least get any airline to listen.

I agree venture. I think some kind of significant incentives or guarantees would have to in place for this to happen.

[damonsmuz]

Unless I overlooked something, it seems like OKC-DCA will be tough to get on WN. Unless it's being filed under some different slot. I am not sure. But something tells me OKC-DCA has a less than 50% chance of happening. In other news, DCA-COS on F9? Really? I;ll never understand some of the routes that F9 applies for...

[Oil Capital]

Unless I overlooked something, it seems like OKC-DCA will be tough to get on WN. Unless it's being filed under some different slot. I am not sure. But something tells me OKC-DCA has a less than 50% chance of happening. In other news, DCA-COS on F9? Really? I;ll never understand some of the routes that F9 applies for...

Why do you think that will be tough to get?

[damonsmuz]

You know what, I may have misspoken. Forgive my stupidness this evening. I was reading something online and I thought it was saying that the DCA slots had been announced...nevermind, it was just a dude's guess on which routes would be approved. In other news, it appears that the routes will be announced in a few days...