Cng

[Goodengroup]

[Kerry]

When I pump gasoline I pay by the gallon. What is CNG measured in? What is the federal tax rate on this unit of purchase and how does it compare to the federal tax on a gallon of gasoline?

[Snowman]

When I pump gasoline I pay by the gallon. What is CNG measured in? What is the federal tax rate on this unit of purchase and how does it compare to the federal tax on a gallon of gasoline?

cubic feet is how it is measures. How it is displayed varies; mass (pounds), BTUs, therms (100,000 BTUs) or 'gallon of gasoline equivalent'

1 gge = 114,119 BTU's = 1.14 Therms = 5.660 lb. natural gas

About a year ago their was a $7000 tax credit for the vehicle, not sure if it is still around.

Not sure on the federal tax either, their was talk of a 50-cents per GGE fuel tax credit but if that just to reducing existing tax or was taken off the cost of fuel I do not know and last I had heard on that it still needing reconciled between a senate and house version. This early in the cycle of using it as a fuel they may not have one to incentivize it till it becomes popular and will then be the same per equivalent of fuel. Also unless the home fill units call the government or gas company they have no way to know the percentage used in a car vs heating your home.

[Kerry]

Also unless the home fill units call the government or gas company they have no way to know the percentage used in a car vs heating your home.

Just give that some time. They will probably call it a Smart Meter so everyone will get on board with it.

[cameron_405]

[Goodengroup]

New public CNG fueling station opens in Oklahoma
Another compressed natural gas fueling station is open for business, thanks to Chesapeake Energy Corp. and OnCue Express.

BY JAY F. MARKS jmarks@opubco.com 0
Published: June 7, 2011
EL RENO — Chesapeake Energy Corp. and OnCue Express are at it again.

The partners on Monday celebrated the opening of their 10th compressed natural gas fueling station. Nine have opened this year.
OnCue is the owner and operator of the public fueling station at Chesapeake's El Reno field office, 3400 S Radio Road.
Chesapeake, which has converted its Oklahoma vehicle fleet to run on compressed natural gas, also has worked with OnCue to open several CNG fueling stations this year in hopes of encouraging others to consider the gasoline alternative.
“Bringing CNG to El Reno allows the community, state and nation to take a step forward in reducing our dependency on foreign oil,” said James Roller, Chesapeake's market development coordinator. “Natural gas allows business owners, schools and cities to lower fuel expenses while improving their budgets.
“Natural gas also creates a cleaner environment, sells at a significant discount to gasoline and is domestically produced and abundant, all of which support the overall energy industry in Oklahoma, an industry that provides one in seven state jobs.”
OnCue Marketing Chief Executive Officer Jim Griffith said CNG is a cheaper alternative to gasoline.
“CNG is affordable, clean and good for Oklahoma and is much more price stable,” Griffith said. “While unleaded prices are more than $3.50 per gallon, CNG from OnCue has remained $1.39 per gallon since last summer.
“The price difference has been a significant incentive for businesses, schools, cities and individuals to convert to CNG.”


Read more: http://newsok.com/new-public-cng-fue...#ixzz1PAw0xUMO

[jmarkross]

Does anyone know if one gallon of CNG is an equivalent to one gallon of gasoline as far as mileage goes?

[earlywinegareth]

My grandfather and father ran an Allis-Chalmers combine on natural gas on the farm as far back as the '70s. Made a horrible hissing sound when refueling.

Seems to me that once a bunch of people convert, then the law of supply/demand comes into play and the price for CNG will increase unless production increases at the same rate.

[ou48A]

My grandfather and father ran an Allis-Chalmers combine on natural gas on the farm as far back as the '70s. Made a horrible hissing sound when refueling.

Seems to me that once a bunch of people convert, then the law of supply/demand comes into play and the price for CNG will increase unless production increases at the same rate.

That hissing noise is nothing compared to the noise made when blowing down a large diameter high pressure NG pipeline

That hissing noise is nothing compared to the noise made when blowing down a large diameter high pressure NG pipeline

[ou48A]

Does anyone know if one gallon of CNG is an equivalent to one gallon of gasoline as far as mileage goes?

The energy obtainable from burning one US gallon is 115,000 BTU.
The energy obtainable from burning 100 SCF of CNG is 98,300 BTU.
The BTU of NG at the well head can very a great deal.

FYI 33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline.

[jmarkross]

The energy obtainable from burning one US gallon is 115,000 BTU.
The energy obtainable from burning 100 SCF of CNG is 98,300 BTU.
The BTU of NG at the well head can very a great deal.

FYI 33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline.

Re-phrased--will a tank of CNG roughly take you the same distance as a tank of gasoline? Or--is there a problematic difference?

[ou48A]

Re-phrased--will a tank of CNG roughly take you the same distance as a tank of gasoline? Or--is there a problematic difference?

No…… With the same size tank NG will not take you near as far.
To help with range problems more NG storage is needed.
This could be better accomplished if vehicles were redesigned from the ground up for more storage.
But at current prices NG is significantly cheaper per mile.

[windowphobe]

Haven't seen the '12, but the '11 Honda Civic GX, the only factory CNG car around, had an 8-gallon (equivalent) tank, which at the EPA-rated MPG(e) would be good for 200 miles or so. (Then again, those 200 miles would cost you about $11.50, versus $35 or so for gasoline.)

[Maynard]

GM to Sell Pickups With Option to Burn Compressed Natural Gas

General Motors Co. (GM), the world’s largest automaker, plans to begin taking orders in April on pickups that run on both gasoline and compressed natural gas, potentially reducing costs for users.

The Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500 HD extended-cab pickups will be offered with a 6.0-liter, V-8 engine that can “seamlessly” transition between natural gas and gasoline, the Detroit-based automaker said today in a statement.

A vehicle such as the ones GM will offer can save a driver $6,000 to $10,000 in fuel costs over a three-year period because CNG is cheaper than gasoline, Joyce Mattman, director of GM commercial product and specialty vehicles, said before the announcement.

“It helps our fleet customers with their total cost of ownership,” Mattman said. “CNG is unique in that it’s not attached to the price of oil, so over time it’s maintained a lower retail price than both gasoline and diesel fuels.”

The bi-fuel option will help expand GM’s customer base for CNG products, Mattman said.

CNG-only vehicles “are a challenge when you’re using one specific fuel that doesn’t have infrastructure or support across the entire country,” Mattman said. “The range-anxiety issue is very real in this application as well.”

GM didn’t disclose the prices of the vehicles, and any premium over gasoline-only cars might offset savings on fuel.

Fueling Stations

Natural gas costs on average one-third less than conventional gasoline and there are 1,000 CNG-fueling stations in the U.S., of which about half are open to the public, according to Natural Gas Vehicles for America, a trade group based in Washington.

Mattman declined to say how many CNG pickups GM plans to sell.

The CNG vehicles are part of a broader strategy by GM to offer alternative-fuel vehicles, including the plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volt. The Volt can go about 40 miles on electricity before a gasoline engine kicks in and powers a generator to recharge the battery. The vehicle is aimed at customers who are worried about range.

GM began selling CNG cargo vans in 2010. Honda Motor Co. sells a CNG version of the Civic sedan in the U.S. Chrysler Group LLC has said it will bring a CNG pickup to the U.S. this year for fleet customers.

Engine Costs

The additional cost for an engine using natural gas is $3,000, compared with $3,300 for diesel and $8,000 for an electric hybrid, Alfredo Altavilla , who heads Fiat SpA (F)’s Iveco truck unit, said in September 2010, when Fiat laid out its natural-gas aspirations. Fiat is the majority owner of Chrysler.

GM said bi-fuel pickups will be offered to both commercial and retail customers and be delivered late this year.

The truck, which will be covered by GM’s three-year, 36,000-mile warranty and five-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty, will be built in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and sent to a supplier for installation of the fuel system and tank, the company said.

The pickups will have tanks that can hold the equivalent of 17 gallons (64 liters) of CNG and a 36-gallon tank of gasoline, giving the vehicles a combined range of more than 650 miles (1,000 kilometers), said Mike Jones, product manager for GM’s fleet and commercial operations. He declined to break out the range obtainable on CNG alone.

“The broadest range of usage of this is going to be in the commercial market,” he said.

[Maynard]

GE and Chesapeake Energy Corporation Announce Collaboration to Speed Adoption of Natural Gas as Transportation Fuel -- Initiative Targets Natural Gas Fueling Infrastructure Development Agreement Designed to Develop Products and Services for Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) and Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) Transportation and Home Fueling Solutions Chesapeake to Deploy More than 250 of GE’s ecomagination™-Qualified “CNG In A Box™” Fueling Systems across the United States through 2015 through its Affiliate, Peake Fuel Solutions

03/07 04:00 AM

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HOUSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- GE and Chesapeake Energy Corporation (CHK:$23.43,00$-0.13,00-0.55%) today announced a collaboration to develop infrastructure solutions that will help accelerate the adoption of natural gas as a transportation fuel. This groundbreaking technology and services project marks a significant milestone toward increasing energy independence in the United States through the increased use of natural gas—an abundant, reliable and cleaner-burning source of energy for both consumers and commercial users.

To formalize the agreement, GE and Chesapeake have signed a memorandum of understanding on a product and services development partnership, representing a multi-year collaboration between the two companies to develop and bring to market compressed natural gas (CNG) and liquefied natural gas (LNG) transportation and natural gas home-fueling solutions. By improving access to CNG, which is most commonly used in light- to medium-duty vehicles such as pickups, vans, SUVs, taxicabs, transit buses, refuse and delivery trucks as well as consumer vehicles, along with LNG, which is commonly used for heavy-duty industrial purposes, dependence on foreign energy sources can be reduced while simultaneously lowering fueling costs and vehicle emissions.

The collaboration is designed to leverage GE’s global Oil & Gas technology portfolio with Chesapeake’s expertise in developing innovative fueling solutions to lower the ownership and operational costs of natural gas vehicle (NGV) fueling stations. With the development of shale resources dramatically increasing the amount of low-cost natural gas in North America, the GE-Chesapeake collaboration can help incentivize operators to put more NGVs on the nation’s highways.

As part of today’s announced collaboration, beginning in the fall of 2012 GE will provide more than 250 modular and standardized CNG compression stations for NGV infrastructure. These units, also known as “CNG In A Box™,” have gone through GE’s rigorous ecomagination-qualification process and will provide the core infrastructure to enable expanded access to CNG at fueling stations and other designated installations.

A vehicle using CNG can reduce annual fuel costs up to 40 percent, assuming 25,700 miles per year driven, gasoline priced at $3.50/gallon and CNG at $2.09/gasoline gallon equivalent. This represents savings totaling as much as $1,500 per fleet vehicle per year. In total, for each fleet vehicle using fuel provided by CNG In A Box instead of gasoline, a fleet operator can reduce CO2e emissions from fuel combustion by about 24 percent, or 2.2 metric tons per vehicle annually, assuming an average fleet vehicle travels approximately 25,700 miles per year.

“Both GE and Chesapeake are known for taking on tough energy challenges and putting the best minds and technologies to work to develop solutions,” said Aubrey K. McClendon, Chesapeake’s Chief Executive Officer. “The partnership announced today between GE and Chesapeake’s affiliate, Peake Fuel Solutions, combines Chesapeake’s natural gas expertise with GE’s extensive global manufacturing capabilities and will bring transformative products to industries and individual consumers across the U.S. These products and services will allow customers to enjoy the clear advantages of clean, affordable and abundant American natural gas at about half the cost of gasoline.”

Said GE Energy President & CEO John Krenicki, “GE is fundamentally committed to natural gas—our technologies help extract it, move it and turn it into power, whether it’s highly efficient gas turbines delivering electricity at the utility scale or, in the near future, a vehicle at a refueling station. What makes this project particularly exciting is that it paves the way to taking the immense reserves of natural gas being discovered in the U.S. and using them right here in the U.S. That paves the way for faster economic growth, energy security, more jobs and reduced environmental impact.”

This CNG technology will be brought to market by Peake Fuel Solutions—a Chesapeake affiliate—which has extensive experience with natural gas vehicles, vehicle emission controls and natural gas market dynamics. Chesapeake also brings considerable in-house expertise in CNG market development to the GE collaboration, including retail station relationships, fleet outreach and education programs and policy engagement.

CNG In A Box takes natural gas from a pipeline and compresses it on-site at an industrial location or at a traditional automotive refilling station to then turn it into CNG. A CNG vehicle, such as a taxi, bus or small truck, can then refill its tank using a traditional fuel dispenser, much like those used for diesel or gasoline refueling.

Key features include:

The gas compression, storage, cooling, drying and controls are easy to ship and maintain due to its compact “In Box” design.
The units come in two configurations: an 8 foot x 20 foot container or 8 foot x 40 foot container, depending on the site’s need.
Its modular and intuitive design makes it “Plug & Play” on-site.
The offering includes GE Wayne branded dispensers with credit card capability and provision for “Point Of Sale” interface.
The fuel dispenses at a rate of about 7 gasoline gallon equivalent per minute.
Other elements of the new collaboration include:

Aftermarket services for natural gas fueling infrastructure.
GE’s LNG fueling plants, which adapt GE’s proven large-scale LNG liquefaction technologies to smaller-scale operations. Using LNG as a substitute for diesel or fuel oil can reduce combustion emissions up to 25 percent.
Development of home refueling technologies.
Co-marketing of products and services resulting from the partnership.

[ThomPaine]

http://www.ted.com/talks/t_boone_pic...tural_gas.html

Here's a video of T. Boone Pickens at a recent TED conference. Pretty good laydown, even if you don't agree with all his numbers or are concerned about fracking. OK should be the leader in CNG infrastructure and vehicles. I used to drive CNG powered commercial vehicles 15 years ago, and there was little difference between the gasoline and CNG versions of the same vehicles.

I am looking to buy a new vehicle in the next year or so, and was dismayed to read in earlier posts that the Civic is wait listed. Guess I better get on the list. OKC should not purchase another government vehicle that runs on gasoline. Ever.

[OSUMom]

I had heard a rumor that it takes a really long time to fill up a CNG vehicle. Anyone here know if that is true or false?

[Sheetkeecker]

I had heard a rumor that it takes a really long time to fill up a CNG vehicle. Anyone here know if that is true or false?

Only depends on the delivery system.
No reason why it should, especially since the pressure is higher.

[FRISKY]

I had heard a rumor that it takes a really long time to fill up a CNG vehicle. Anyone here know if that is true or false?

CNG In A Box takes natural gas from a pipeline and compresses it on-site at an industrial location or at a traditional automotive refilling station to then turn it into CNG. A CNG vehicle, such as a taxi, bus or small truck, can then refill its tank using a traditional fuel dispenser, much like those used for diesel or gasoline refueling.

Key features include:

The gas compression, storage, cooling, drying and controls are easy to ship and maintain due to its compact “In Box” design.
The units come in two configurations: an 8 foot x 20 foot container or 8 foot x 40 foot container, depending on the site’s need.
Its modular and intuitive design makes it “Plug & Play” on-site.
The offering includes GE Wayne branded dispensers with credit card capability and provision for “Point Of Sale” interface.
The fuel dispenses at a rate of about 7 gasoline gallon equivalent per minute.

Other elements of the new collaboration include: .

...

[FRISKY]

I had heard a rumor that it takes a really long time to fill up a CNG vehicle. Anyone here know if that is true or false?

CNG In A Box takes natural gas from a pipeline and compresses it on-site at an industrial location or at a traditional automotive refilling station to then turn it into CNG. A CNG vehicle, such as a taxi, bus or small truck, can then refill its tank using a traditional fuel dispenser, much like those used for diesel or gasoline refueling.

Key features include:

The gas compression, storage, cooling, drying and controls are easy to ship and maintain due to its compact “In Box” design.
The units come in two configurations: an 8 foot x 20 foot container or 8 foot x 40 foot container, depending on the site’s need.
Its modular and intuitive design makes it “Plug & Play” on-site.
The offering includes GE Wayne branded dispensers with credit card capability and provision for “Point Of Sale” interface.
The fuel dispenses at a rate of about 7 gasoline gallon equivalent per minute.

Other elements of the new collaboration include: .

...

[OSUMom]

Cool. Thanks. I was hoping that was just a nasty rumor (20 minute fill up time... shudder). I would love to get a CNG car but I guess most of us will have to wait until either more are being made or all the big companies have stocked up on all their fleet cars and leave some for the rest of us.

[ThomPaine]

I had heard a rumor that it takes a really long time to fill up a CNG vehicle. Anyone here know if that is true or false?

You can also purchase a slow refill station for your garage. It will fill up over a few hours, but you get to pay the much cheaper rate from your household supply.
http://www.cngnow.com/vehicles/refue...g-at-home.aspx

[OSUMom]

Oh, maybe that's were the rumor comes from about it taking a long time. But to fill up at home, that would be excellent!

[Double Edge]

Looks like it's about $5K for the home refueling equipment.

[OKCNDN]

If you could take the CNG equipment from the original install vehicle and reinstall it on the replacement vehicle, that would reduce cost of conversion.

Any one know maintenance costs if any? I am talking about any filters or annual pressure checkups, etc.

Energy companies know the public will pay whatever they charge for vehicle fuel. Sure people may slack off driving but they will still buy gasoline. This is due to no other choice. So due to this fact I believe that whatever fuel source a vehicle would use for power, the price of that source will rise to a level equivalent to the price of gasoline. And I do mean whatever fuel source. CNG, hydrogen, solar, whatever.