Larry Nichols Park

[rcjunkie]

It seems OKC loves to name parks after (white?) dudes.

What else can you say but "WOW".

[Steve]

Thanks FritterGirl. . . do you know if it was/became an "issue" when it was renamed Bicentennial Park?

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

[Just the facts]

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Did 1976 sneak up on people?

[kevinpate]

Did 1976 sneak up on people?

Yeah, but then again, 75 was pretty much a year long party in its own right.

[Just the facts]

If Bicentennial Park doesn't get approved for a make-over do you think they will go forward with the renaming?

[metro]

If they insist on renaming it, do it right and go back to the original name, Civic Center Park, it is more fitting. We have too many monuments/highways/parks/plazas named ten different things because they want to rename it after someone every "x" number of years.

[krisb]

I can't help but wonder if Mr. Nichols is driving this whole process because he wants things to be done a certain way at a certain time.

[metro]

Having met him personally on several occasions, he doesn't seem the ego type that wants the name recognition, but I could see him wanting it done right.

[OKCTalker]

If the park is to be renamed in honor of any individual, can anyone suggest a more deserving person than Larry Nichols? Rather than tearing down people, how about presenting the names of our outstanding citizens - we're blessed with many.

[Just the facts]

If the park is to be renamed in honor of any individual, can anyone suggest a more deserving person than Larry Nichols? Rather than tearing down people, how about presenting the names of our outstanding citizens - we're blessed with many.

The park holds multiple tributes to OKC leaders from the past. The plan is to remove all of those and rename the whole park Larry Nichols Park - one big giant memorial to a single person where multiple small memorials currently reside. Give Larry a bronze bust and put it in the park with the other ones, then change name back to Civic Center Park. This is turning into the OKC version of tearing up Hollywood's Walk of Fame, putting down new concrete, and calling it Lady Gaga Walk.

[Just the facts]

I would be for your suggestion if it was an option. Civic Center Park could act as a nice themed space dedicated to civic leaders of our past. I might even suggest the name be Civic Service Park to keep the messaging nice and clear.

Also, I think do prefer plaza as well.

I think that was the original intent of the park - a place to pay tribute to individuals that construbted in a way that was above and beyond what is expected from all citizens. The park shouldn't bear the name of anyone and no one should be included that was just doing the job they were elected to do.

[kevinpate]

In the fwiw cat ... if one is opposed to changing the name to LN Park, one polite letter of opposition to the Parks Commission is probably more effective than multiple posts in one OKC talk thread. I don't know if the PC would give a fig or not if a non-resident thought it was a bad idea. My guess is not.

For residents ... yeah, writing PC would be the better ticket. If they are not aware of any opposition to the notion, they might be more likely to give it a do pass rec, notwithstanding that per the city policy renaming a park is highly discouraged.

[metro]

Email address?

[kevinpate]

Email address?

Not clue one. However, in general terms, were I inclined to contact the Parks Commission to express opposition to a letter that proposes renaming a park, I would not even consider doing so via email. I would use an old fashioned letter, just like the person on the other side used.

Such a letter would politely express my opposition and take note of the city's written policy that renaming parks is discouraged.

I may go ahead and send one, even though I am not a resident. I do spend money, visit, and sometimes bring others along with me. But truth be told, if I chose to not spend money in OKC, it would be possible to not do so without greatly depriving me. After all, there are a few other interesting metros within 225 miles in several directions. OKC is closer by far, but it is not the only option for us out of towners.

Anyway, an appropriate addressee would be:

Wendel Whisenhunt, Director
Oklahoma City Parks and Recreation
420 W Main, Ste. 210
Oklahoma City, OK 73102


As noted elsewhere, the various items on this matter are online at:
http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs....a&itemid=60730

The Renaming policy is one of those documents. It was adopted by the city March 4 2003. It includes this language:
"The renaming of parks and facilities will be discouraged."


People can use or not use the referenced information as their hearts lead.

[foodiefan]

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Thanks for the "memory jog", Steve!

[Spartan]

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

So either you want to name CIVIC CENTER Park after Larry Nichols, or you think he is a despicable person?

Can we not just think he's a good guy but wish for the park to keep a civic-oriented name? I don't support naming parks after people, especially including the first name, and especially while they're still alive. That kind of standard belongs relegated to ag school stadiums...

[rcjunkie]

Not clue one. However, in general terms, were I inclined to contact the Parks Commission to express opposition to a letter that proposes renaming a park, I would not even consider doing so via email. I would use an old fashioned letter, just like the person on the other side used.

Such a letter would politely express my opposition and take note of the city's written policy that renaming parks is discouraged.

I may go ahead and send one, even though I am not a resident. I do spend money, visit, and sometimes bring others along with me. But truth be told, if I chose to not spend money in OKC, it would be possible to not do so without greatly depriving me. After all, there are a few other interesting metros within 225 miles in several directions. OKC is closer by far, but it is not the only option for us out of towners.

Anyway, an appropriate addressee would be:

Wendel Whisenhunt, Director
Oklahoma City Parks and Recreation
420 W Main, Ste. 210
Oklahoma City, OK 73102


As noted elsewhere, the various items on this matter are online at:
http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs....a&itemid=60730

The Renaming policy is one of those documents. It was adopted by the city March 4 2003. It includes this language:
"The renaming of parks and facilities will be discouraged."


People can use or not use the referenced information as their hearts lead.

Park Board Meetings are posted on OKC.GOV and meetings are open to the public. You do have to submit in writing if you wish to speak at the meeting.

[NoOkie]

I vote for Wayne Coyne Park. Someone can do a sculpture of good ol' Wayne mowing the grass in boxers and his galoshes.

On a more serious note, I like Civic Center Park or some such. I think you shouldn't name stuff for people until they're dead, or at least well retired.

[FritterGirl]

Park Board Meetings are posted on OKC.GOV and meetings are open to the public. You do have to submit in writing if you wish to speak at the meeting.

A point of clarification here: You have to sign-up to speak at the meeting by filling out a simple "Citizen Request to be Heard" card at the meeting. It is not an advance notification. You can submit your request at the meeting, as is the case of any public meeting.

[OSUFan]

So either you want to name CIVIC CENTER Park after Larry Nichols, or you think he is a despicable person?

Can we not just think he's a good guy but wish for the park to keep a civic-oriented name? I don't support naming parks after people, especially including the first name, and especially while they're still alive. That kind of standard belongs relegated to ag school stadiums...

Yeah, OU has much higher standards than hick ag schools. It is not like they have anything at OU that is named after anyone currently living.

[Larry OKC]

What do you mean? It says right in the letter that justification is for funding Project 180. Project 180 is funed by property taxes that would otherwise go to the city at-large if the TIF districts didn't exist. Devon pre-paid these taxes for the express purpose that the money would go to fix up the area around Devon Tower. If the TIF didn't exist do you think Devon would have pre-paid their property tax?

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay? ...

You are correct. They served as the bank and loaned the City the money (to be paid back with interest) from the TIF (that was carved out of an existing TIF, thus diverting the money yet once again). Folks keep erroneously state that they prepaid their taxes and that just isn't the case. This article seems to indicate they are delaying paying their taxes by 5 years...

(originally posted by metro http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...867#post188867)
OKC Council approves TIF district to support Devon project
by Brian Brus
The Journal Record
December 17, 2008

The tax increment finance district is projected to generate $175 million over its 25-year life. ...

Devon Chief Executive Larry Nichols had earlier told the council his company expects the city to provide public improvements to create an appropriate environment for a world headquarters. The company wants to build more than 1 million square feet of space on the northeast corner of Sheridan and Hudson avenues, just north of Myriad Gardens. To that end, city government must “fix up the neighborhood and help bring other businesses into Oklahoma City,” he said.

City staff said a TIF district is the only tool available to generate adequate revenue to support Devon’s preconditions. The district will tap only into ad valorem and construction sales tax revenues over its lifetime. Although Devon won’t generate ad valorem in the first five years of the plan, it will still pay about $20 million in city sales taxes during the construction phase.

Please understand this isn't a slam towards Devon or Mr. Nichols in any way. He and the company have done many great things for OKC. The facts are what they are. In this particular case, Devon gets what they wanted (improvements to the area making it worthy of a world headquarters); they delay their own taxes; they get paid interest on the money they are loaning to the City to do what they wanted done. It is a win-win-win for Devon. The City wins too (but it is borrowing the money twice, once thru the regular TIF process and then again through the Devon loan).

Speaking of the Devon agreement, it is often cited by the City as justification for why things can't be delayed etc (yet conveniently ignored at other times). Has anyone seen the Devon agreement? Seems like it should be public (even the Thunder lease(s) were made public)? What exactly does it say?


not connected with the above...

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Interesting that the same urgency is being requested now in an earlier article of Steve's where they said it was because of the 75th anniversary and they needed to get the Civic Center park redesign done by then. As someone else pointed out, funny how these things sneak up on folks...LOL

And still not connected...
Am curious, of the long list of things named for people, how many of that list were named while the honoree was still alive and "active"? other than novelty alley renaming (Flaming Lips) and similar, I am agree that it should be an honor reserved for the retired or deceased. That way it isn't a flash in the pan type thing and someone's legacy has stood the test of time. How many know the people that these things are named for anyway?

[boscorama]

I'd prefer naming honors come after a person's legacy, in toto, can be deemed celebratory for generations to come.

The neighborhood park is one thing. Civic Center/Bicentennial Park is another.


Visitor: Who *was* Larry Nichols?
Host: He is a wealthy man who has done so much for our city.
Visitor: Back in the 89er days?
Host: No, he's alive and well. That's his new skyscraper over there.

Just saying.

[Doug Loudenback]

I think that I'm kinda lost. I had thought that the DDRC was meeting yesterday (Thursday) morning and that on its agenda was the design, etc., for the Bicentennial Plaza. Perhaps I was mistaken that the topic was on their agenda, but if I wasn't I'm not finding any news reports, no Steve Lackmeyer blog reports, or whatever whether by regular media or by citizens media as to what happened.

Any reports?

[krisb]

http://newsok.com/design-review-comm...649650/?page=2

[BDK]

Forgive my ignorance, but does the city council have the power to do something about this or not? The park, that is, not the naming. I don't really care about the name.