Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

Alternate route

After a recent denial for a federal grant, officials look to other subsidies for the city’s intermodal transit hub.

Clifton Adcock
January 31st, 2012

Oklahoma City officials are looking for other ways to fund improvements to the city’s planned intermodal transit hub after failing to win a federal grant.
The MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board voted Jan. 26 to recommend the City Council approve purchase of the Santa Fe Train Depot to serve as a convergence for several modes of transportation in the city, including car, rail, bicycle and possibly bus. The city already set aside $10 million of the $127 million in MAPS 3 streetcar funding to pay for the acquisition and streetcar-related improvements to the station.



But a setback came in late December, when the city learned its application was denied for $17 million from a federal Transportation


Read more... http://okgazette.com/oklahoma/articl...ate-route.html

[Skyline]

nm

[Frustratedoptimist]

What's the latest on commuter rail in the metro and Amtrak expansion to Kansas?

[OKCisOK4me]

What's the latest on commuter rail in the metro and Amtrak expansion to Kansas?

A very long and tedious process. Probably still looking at 10+ years out. Right now it's Streetcar service and that's still 5+ years out from being fully completed.

[BoulderSooner]

ACOG (asso of central okla governments) is just starting the regional transit AA ... with 7 cities paying for their local match funding ... OKC moore Norman MWC Edmond Yukon and ??? del city i think ...

this will be at least a year long + process .. that will move us a step closer to a regional system

[Just the facts]

Here is the RFP:

http://www.acogok.org/Newsroom/Downloads12/ccaarfp.pdf

[Urban Pioneer]

Core issues

Comments in a Core to Shore study rankle some on the MAPS 3 streetcar panel.

Clifton Adcock February 8th, 2012

Oklahoma City’s 6-year-old plan to develop land between downtown and the Oklahoma River, the Core to Shore plan, is still relevant — it just needs a little tweaking, according to a recent review of it.

ADG, the lead consulting firm hired by the city for MAPS 3, joined with Hargreaves Associates and Jonathan Rose Companies for the limited study after some city officials questioned whether Core to Shore was still valid amid the changes that have taken place in the city and with the MAPS 3 program.

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/ar...re-issues.html

[Larry OKC]

"Other changes since the Core to Shore plan include Project 180, the Interstate 40 relocation and SkyDance pedestrian bridge."

Core to Shore came about as a direct "answer" to the relocating I-40 and while the Skydance Bridge was not developed yet there was always a pedestrian bridge along the Harvey Spine as part of the Core to Shore plans. It is clearly identified in the renderings of the Core to Shore report.

[Just the facts]

Core to Shore came about as a direct "answer" to the relocating I-40 and while the Skydance Bridge was not developed yet there was always a pedestrian bridge along the Harvey Spine as part of the Core to Shore plans. It is clearly identified in the renderings of the Core to Shore report.

It seems clear that some people of power don't want C2S.

[kevinpate]

As I have said many times - just wait until streetcar tracks start get put down.

With due respect to those who have put in untold hours toward the return of streetcars to OKC, I'm not completely convinced even a mile of track will get laid.
It ought to be downright silly to feel that way this far down the trail, but I can't quite shake the feeling that much like Project 180 became Project OK, maybe half that ..maybe, the streetcar project is itself back at a maybe stage and a long way from laying down any rails.

[metro]

With due respect to those who have put in untold hours toward the return of streetcars to OKC, I'm not completely convinced even a mile of track will get laid.
It ought to be downright silly to feel that way this far down the trail, but I can't quite shake the feeling that much like Project 180 became Project OK, maybe half that ..maybe, the streetcar project is itself back at a maybe stage and a long way from laying down any rails.

I'm really concerned your right, and ironically the streetcar is the only project that has an independently organized group that was pushing for it before and after the vote.

[Popsy]

I'm really concerned your right, and ironically the streetcar is the only project that has an independently organized group that was pushing for it before and after the vote.

The independently organized group pushing for it was probably the only reason it was included.

[metro]

And the only reason MAPS3 passed...

[MDot]

So should I be legitimately concerned that the streetcar won't happen or am I just becoming concerned because I'm gullible?

[dankrutka]

I don't think there's real reason to be concerned. Has a single MAPs project ever just been completely discarded? If that happened there would be no MAPs 4. I think everyone understands that...

[Popsy]

And the only reason MAPS3 passed...

I totally disagree, but at the same time admit the streetcar group put a lot of work into passage. I think it would still have passed due to the results of the previous MAPS success. I also believe the streetcar group would have supported maps 3, as they are the type that are for the city moving forward even if the streetcars did not make the cut in this round of maps.

[metro]

I don't think there's real reason to be concerned. Has a single MAPs project ever just been completely discarded? If that happened there would be no MAPs 4. I think everyone understands that...

Yes, the streetcar got scrapped in MAPS 1. Go back and read it, we discuss it frequently and someone brought it up again like 2 days ago.

I totally disagree, but at the same time admit the streetcar group put a lot of work into passage. I think it would still have passed due to the results of the previous MAPS success. I also believe the streetcar group would have supported maps 3, as they are the type that are for the city moving forward even if the streetcars did not make the cut in this round of maps.

I disagree, and if you look at the polling, the streetcar was the most popular Project by far! Nix it and it will piss a lot of people off.

[OKCisOK4me]

I've always thought two new highrises would be Mystery Tower X (International Company) and a two tenant tower (American Fidelity/Midfirst Bank type). Also, if Streetcar goes by the wayside (being that I was too young to make my vote count for MAPS and I didn't live in OKC then), I will NOT vote Yes for another MAPS initiative ever again.

[dankrutka]

Also, if Streetcar goes by the wayside (being that I was too young to make my vote count for MAPS and I didn't live in OKC then), I will NOT vote Yes for another MAPS initiative ever again.

Well, since MAPs have been so beneficial to the City I would not go that far... but I would want the projects voted for on an individual basis if the City shows that they can't be trusted to complete them all (especially, in this case, one of the most popular projects).

[HOT ROD]

I agree with that thought Kilgore. I don't see OKC rescinding investment in the city - even if the city renigs on the streetcar; which I pray does NOT happen since I like the MAPS concept.

But if this does indeed occur, you will see the end of MAPS as we know it but likely NOT the end of civic investment. Projects themselves would just go up and the public would vote for them individually and likely would require much more oversight from those outside of the business/political community (since they WILL be blamed if the streetcar gets nixed/or shortened). In a way, I like having individual projects, since we could be CERTAIN that public projects with 70+% approval (like streetcar) will get built and projects with <30% approval (like the convention center) would not creep in and suck the life out of the less expensive but more popular projects. BUT, MAPS as a brand has been successful and even though I am so sick of the Fairgrounds also sucking from the teet of MAPS, the brand as a whole has been a success largely due to the diversity of projects. Instead of JUST focusing on downtown, MOST of the focus is downtown but all parts of the city have seen 'something'.

That to me, will be the HUGE loss if MAPS as we know it changes from comprehensive to singular project initiatives. But I think OKC residents have seen the results of public investment and will not detract from that or their city. One thing I would like to see if MAPS continues in its current form, is for MAPS to finally become metropolitan. I think we probably need one more 'city' MAPS but MAPS V should be the first truly metropolitan one; and perhaps have Commuter Rail and maybe city halls/libraries/community focus centers for the suburbs. They could probably do that on their own, but it would be nice to have MAPS as the vehicle to quickly improve all/most cities in the metro - not to mention the connectivity to downtown OKC with CR.

Maybe MAPS IV would be a smaller, city focused one (city community centers/libraries, neighbourhood beautification, one or two big downtown additions (football/soccer stadium?, cc hotel(s)/retail complex(es)). Then MAPS V would be metropolitan, and maybe we could finance the CR so that it gets implemented quickly. ...?

just thoughts, and I hope multiple skyscraper announcements happen (2+ Class A leasable towers, 2+ owner-occupied office towers, X residential towers, Y hotel and hotel/condo towers) and that they are all big and glass/modern. We can hope for smaller infill projects to be other architectural schools (Art Deco, Art Moderne, .....) but we need our tallest and biggest to be modern/post modern/futuristic IMO.

[dankrutka]

I would be fine with an entire MAPs dedicated just to streetcar. Think how that could revolutionize the city...

[stlokc]

I'm honestly afraid we're nearing the end of MAPS programs in their current form. MAPS 3 won by a smaller margin and there was controversy with the firefighters/police (I don't remember the details and we don't need to rehash them) and I also think that after these Core to Shore, Convention center and streetcar elements the public will begin to tire on grand downtown civic projects that are publicly funded. With private development really taking off, the city should seriously think about the future MAPS 4 in a slightly different way. I'd like to see focus on other parts of the city/metro area that are looking ailing, maybe massive beautification along the section-line roads, some kind of business-incentive fund to clean up the more desperate pockets and attract corporations that would be new to OKC. I'm not sure how all of this would look.

[bombermwc]

Agreed. The focus on downtown now needs to move outward. Folks outside of downtown are due their turn now on some projects. They aren't sexy, but infrastructure projects could sure do a lot for us. Repave some of the crappy roads out there. Get utilities burried where they currently aren't. <-wishful thinking, but it could help in ice storms. Convert the street lights to LED and save the city a sh*t ton in utility costs. Build some community centers around town. Maybe work on some sort of kid-friendly spaces along side the community centers? We have our parks, but most don't have much in the way of playground equipment, and then sit dormant during cold weather. Why not have some indoor playgrounds? I'm just tossing some crap out there.

[Urban Pioneer]

With due respect to those who have put in untold hours toward the return of streetcars to OKC, I'm not completely convinced even a mile of track will get laid.
It ought to be downright silly to feel that way this far down the trail, but I can't quite shake the feeling that much like Project 180 became Project OK, maybe half that ..maybe, the streetcar project is itself back at a maybe stage and a long way from laying down any rails.

Feel free to come to one of our MTP meetings and check our pulse. We're not worried about it not happening. What we are concerned about is that some "key" people may not understand the route and the balance between economic development and immediate ridership numbers. As evidenced in some of the audio recordings, there is some "pettiness" with some people that has to be expunged or resolved.

Also, to use Steve's quote about City Staff on OKC Central, we are concerned with "Daze and Confuse" strategies by some City Staff and consultants. The streetcar is a "strange animal" to them and potentially a "safe" strategy for some is to stall and buy time. Be wary of calls for more route/economic development studies.

There is indeed a time clock in which there may be a moment where we could be vulnerable as a whole. We are not there yet. We will let the public know if time starts running out.

With the acqusition of Santa-Fe on course and discussions regarding proceeding with the 3rd party transit consultant RFP, we are so far on schedule.

Also regarding what "towed" MAPS- it was scientifically verified that the streetcar helped "tip" the scales along with sidewalks, trails, and wellness centers. Undoubtedly, probably without the streetcar/transit, MAPS would have been a much tighter race. And no, while we are progressive, the supporters very well may have campaigned against it otherwise. I can vouch for several key people involved in the campaign.

The streetcar project may not be fully understood by everyone, but it's value to MAPS cannot be underestimated.

[BoulderSooner]

we passed 700 mil in street projects in 2007 most of those are just now getting started ..