Oklahoma Commercial Air Service Discussion 2012

[venture]

Have there been any cities lately that have applied for EAS service in OK? With Great Lake hitting up Liberal and Garden City...what would the odds of adding Woodward on the route map. Perhaps a route of WWR-LBL-DEN ? I don't know the logistics to how a town gets EAS service, it just seems that NW Oklahoma is in one of those areas where a drive to AMA or OKC is far enough that EAS service could be warranted.

I haven't seen anything. They use to be covered under EAS, but they were dropped. WWD definitely would come across as a typical EAS market since there really isn't a direct highway to OKC or AMA to ensure a quick connection to air service. However, the DOT eliminated them from EAS consideration. Here is the list of former EAS eligible cities in OK:

- McAlester (removed Jan 1, 1990)
- Enid (removed Sept 1, 2006)
- Ponca City (removed Sept 1, 2006)

I thought Woodward would be on that list, but it isn't...even though I'm certain they had service before. It is interesting to not that Oklahoma is one of 13 states that do not have an airport covered by the EAS program. The others being WA, ID, LA, FL, SC, NC, OH, IN, DE, NJ, CT, RI, MA, and NH.

[venture]

I've enjoyed the EMB 170 series. Then again Im only 5'10 but thought that the plane was far roomier than all other "regional" planes.

I guess it could have been worse...it could have been a CRJ-100/200 for you.... ouch.

The E-Jet series (170/175/190/195) are definitely pretty roomy, especially with only a 2+2 configuration. It has been a major selling point that they give more space than a lot of mainline jets flying around. I guess at the end of the day we can reflect on any aircraft and be thankful it at least isn't flown by Spirit. :-)

[venture]

My wife and 2 kids are flying to OKC this month and staying for a couple weeks. I can find plenty of good prices but what I am trying to find out is if there are any flights coming into OKC where the plane has three seats side-by-side. Keeping them together would be ideal for obvious reasons. The oldest is only 5. Any suggestions for flights?

Anything that is either a 737 or Airbus would work. The MD-80s will work as well as long as you put them on the right side of the aircraft (I think only TWA was revered at 3+2). So Southwest, Frontier, Delta, United, and American should all have something for you. You just need to send them through the proper connecting point. See the first post in this thread for aircraft types per route...it is still pretty accurate.

[venture]

I am not seeing 737 or Airbus in the first post. What I am I missing? =)

Ooops. I used the codes for all of them. MD-80: M88 & M80... 737: 73G, 733... Airbus: 319

[ljbab728]

No, I mean Madison. Though now that I think about it, it was actually DFW to MSN. I had a larger plane, an MD-88 I think to DFW, then had an E-170 to MSN. The MD-88 was just salt on the wounds!

Well that makes more sense then. I knew we never had any nonstop flights from here to MSN. That American flight from DFW to MSN is actually 2 hours 10 minutes.

[damonsmuz]

I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread..reposting: Flew on F9 Friday afternoon KOKC-KDEN and back yesterday. Full flight both legs. Impressed with F9 and their service. How can you not like the hot cookies? I believe I heard that F9 would be adding service to OKC. Rumor has it that F9/Republic may be taking over a large chunk of the flying for American Eagle in the near future. (This was told to me by a FA so take it for what it's worth).

[venture]

Damon a lot of what is posted really doesn't make any sense. So i think some people are messing things up out there from what they are telling you.

1) Great that the flights were full, they haven't really been doing all that great here so that is good news.
2) The cookies are going away apparently.
3) F9 likely won't add much more to OKC from the way it looks. Florida flopped and most of the other major markets are already tapped.
4) Frontier has several dozen Airbus aircraft on order and won't be flying as a feeder for anyone.
5) Republic is working to spin F9 (Frontier) off right now. It isn't all that unexpected if they would pick up additional feeder contracts with American for American Connection service depending on labor agreements - aka the Scope Clause.

[damonsmuz]

Again, this is from an FA headed back home, so take it for what it's worth. From what the FA told me, there is a good chance of increasing frequency to DEN with another F9 or Republic flight.

F9 won't be flying as a feeder for anyone, not with those size craft, but Republic will and apparently is taking in EMB-145's from Brazil.

[venture]

Again, this is from an FA headed back home, so take it for what it's worth. From what the FA told me, there is a good chance of increasing frequency to DEN with another F9 or Republic flight.

F9 won't be flying as a feeder for anyone, not with those size craft, but Republic will and apparently is taking in EMB-145's from Brazil.

I would like to see their loads go up a bit before adding another flight to DEN. However they are going to go through a bunch of changes over the next year as they get spun off from Republic under the leadership of former US Airways CEO David Siegel. They've been picking up a bunch of ex-AirTran routes this week that Southwest discontinued. Don't be shocked to see something with Spirit come up.

Republic already has a ton of 145s at their Chautauqua subsidiary that flies for American, Delta, United, and US Airways. Their 145 agreement under the Frontier banner is ending. I doubt they will take on anymore 50-seaters. Most are completely out of production now as there are tons parked. They could find a way to land agreements to reactivate them, but nothing new will be delivered.

Flight crews are always great source of rumors, but unfortunately details get twisted around a lot and go contrary to reality.

[OUman]

^Not to beat a dead horse but I seriously doubt any airline would be taking more 50 seaters when most, if not all, airlines are taking them to the scrap yard since they're so fuel inefficient. That's a main reason why OKC and other airports that can support slightly higher-capacity jets are gettng the 70 and 90 seaters, including the very fuel-efficient turboprops.

[venture]

Article in aviation week recently mentioned how weak the regionals are. They are bleeding cash with the 70 seats or less jets. Comair the first major operator of them here, is dumping all of theirs as fast as possible. We could see things get worse if the big regional operators start folding or force majorchanges. OKC is pretty exposed right now but not as much as other markets. We really need to see a new generation of props come out to serve the sub 400 mile market and dump the regional jets. Some may not like it but the other option will be to lose a lot of choice in markets and frequency. If it can't work on mainline it could go away. For OKC that is a lot of markets.

[damonsmuz]

Venture, I totally agree with the article. Im surprised that with the surge in fuel prices that airlines have not looked more at planes like the Q-400, etc. I saw a Colgan Air (United Airlines) Q-400 parked at the terminal in DFW yesterday. High profile route IAH-DFW and it's on a prop... good call for United.

[venture]

Southwest has applied for a slot to operate Oklahoma City to Washington National. The flight will be a tag from Dallas Love. It will be one flight per day.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...oposes-no.html

This slot is currently used by US Airways for DCA-JAN (Jackson, MS). This route was originally operated by Delta and was part of the transfer to US Airways. Not sure if the DOT will approval the WN application to take this route from US Airways, but we'll see.

Application to the DOT: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2000-7182-1867

ROUTE: DCA – OKC, with continuing single-plane service to Dallas Love Field (DAL)
SCHEDULE WESTBOUND 14:50 DCA – 16:50 OKC
17:35 OKC – 18:30 DAL
SCHEDULE EASTBOUND 9:00 DAL – 9:50 OKC
10:15 OKC – 14:04 DCA
START DATE: Within 90 days of the Department’s Final Order
AIRCRAFT TYPE: Stage III Boeing 737 aircraft (137 seats)

Southwest’s proposed service would significantly advance the statutory goals of AIR-21 and Vision 100 by fulfilling four out of the five statutory criteria, the maximum number possible. See Exhibit WN-100. Specifically, Southwest’s proposal would:

• provide service by a limited incumbent air carrier at Washington National Airport; Southwest is a limited incumbent at DCA;
• offer DCA nonstop service to a community currently without any such service; OKC has no nonstop service to DCA;
• provide DCA service to a small community; OKC is classified as a “small hub” by the FAA; and
• produce the maximum competitive benefits, including low fares; Southwest’s proposed DCA-OKC-DAL service will generate over $8 million in consumer fare savings annually, and will stimulate approximately 55,000 new passengers. See Exhibits WN-118 and WN-121.

Furthermore, Southwest’s proposal will add on-line connecting competition in several other large markets beyond OKC, by offering new travel options to and from DCA through OKC. These connecting markets - including Denver, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Houston (see Exhibit WN-205) - will benefit not just from Southwest’s new nonstop service between DCA and OKC, but also from Southwest’s low fares and its “no fees” policy for checked baggage or reservations changes.2

[damonsmuz]

Good move by WN, though quite unique. Is this WN getting around the Wright Amendment and thus routing DAL-OKC-DCA ? Or, do they see good traffic potential for OKC-DCA?

Will this mean we lose OKC-BWI if approved? Or, is this just something that happens when 2 airlines merge?

I would love to see this route happen, and if so, means that we have the Washington,DC market tapped with service to all 3 airports. Fingers crossed...

[dcsooner]

southwest has applied for a slot to operate oklahoma city to washington national. The flight will be a tag from dallas love. It will be one flight per day.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...oposes-no.html

this slot is currently used by us airways for dca-jan (jackson, ms). This route was originally operated by delta and was part of the transfer to us airways. Not sure if the dot will approval the wn application to take this route from us airways, but we'll see.

Application to the dot: http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2000-7182-1867

this route would be frickin awesome!

[HangryHippo]

They say comments will be taken through March 20th (I think that was the date). Is this for people to write in support of this application?

[BoulderSooner]

this would be great for OKC

[adaniel]

I think this will be wildly successful.

About a year and a half ago I flew the OKC-Dulles flight on Continental and it was packed. Not sure if they still operate that flight though.

Unless your final destination is Northern Virginia, it would be far more convenient to fly into National since its right on the DC Metro. Hope we get this.

[venture]

Good move by WN, though quite unique. Is this WN getting around the Wright Amendment and thus routing DAL-OKC-DCA ? Or, do they see good traffic potential for OKC-DCA?

Will this mean we lose OKC-BWI if approved? Or, is this just something that happens when 2 airlines merge?

I would love to see this route happen, and if so, means that we have the Washington,DC market tapped with service to all 3 airports. Fingers crossed...

DAL will be tagged on the DCA service, if approved. This does allow them to sell it as DAL-DCA as well, however they aren't expecting much more than 10k passengers to come from Dallas. Another 18.5K will be connecting through OKC from cities like DEN, LAS, and PHX. OKC O&D is suppose to be around 40.5K. Total seats available look to be 100,010 and an estimate of 72,404 pax per year. Not bad to start out around a 72% load factor.

I don't see OKC-BWI going away as more connection opportunities will be there. WN will never be very large in DCA. That is US Airways turf and will be for awhile. I'm sure this has some to do with the acquisition of AirTran. They have some limited DCA service now, but there isn't much they can do until they really start merging the schedules. They just go the Single Operating Certificate a week ago and things will likely still take 2 years to get everything completely merged.

I'm 50/50 on this happening. There will be a lot of political pressure to keep Jackson, MS in place, since we'll be taking that slot away. It would be nice if they could find a way to have both.

They say comments will be taken through March 20th (I think that was the date). Is this for people to write in support of this application?

Yes and also for other airlines to apply for this slot. US Airways is applying to retain the slot for service to Jackson, MS which was awarded to them on a temporary bases with Delta (ASA) ceased operating the flight. Frontier has also applied for the slot for service to Louisville.

[venture]

I think this will be wildly successful.

About a year and a half ago I flew the OKC-Dulles flight on Continental and it was packed. Not sure if they still operate that flight though.

Unless your final destination is Northern Virginia, it would be far more convenient to fly into National since its right on the DC Metro. Hope we get this.

Yes, United (even though the Continental logo is everywhere LOL) still operates this flight.

[ljbab728]

Good move by WN, though quite unique. Is this WN getting around the Wright Amendment and thus routing DAL-OKC-DCA ? Or, do they see good traffic potential for OKC-DCA?

The Wright Amendment will basically cease to exist in 2014.

[OUman]

And with it all the OKC-DEN-OKC and maybe even this OKC-DCA-OKC flight (if it's in operation then). DAL would essentially be open to any contiguous U.S. destination in the WN network. That new terminal down there is coming at a good time. It will be a welcome change for connections, not that the current one is all that bad but it's small and cramped, and food choice is lacking. The new one will solve all of that.

[ljbab728]

http://newsok.com/southwest-airlines...rticle/3655851

[venture]

And with it all the OKC-DEN-OKC and maybe even this OKC-DCA-OKC flight (if it's in operation then). DAL would essentially be open to any contiguous U.S. destination in the WN network. That new terminal down there is coming at a good time. It will be a welcome change for connections, not that the current one is all that bad but it's small and cramped, and food choice is lacking. The new one will solve all of that.

Yeah connections through DAL are definitely becoming wide open with all the direct service that is possible out of there now. Once 2014 gets here we'll probably see them realign one of the AirTran slots to fly DAL-DCA nonstop and still retain the tag through OKC - if approved.

http://newsok.com/southwest-airlines...rticle/3655851

Nice of the local media to finally jump on this. LOL Though they were probably waiting for comments back. Article wasn't bad though. It did kind of leave out that US Airways is already using the slot to Jackson on a temp basis since DL dropped the route. Other than that, pretty much on track - which is a rare thing with local media and the airport's news. lol

[damonsmuz]

Looks like KOCO had as well the other night in their news. Seems like the story was reported without any mistakes.

http://www.koco.com/video/30636855/detail.html