Bowling alley coming to Lower Bricktown; condos pre-sold

[BDP]

I agree that bowling is fine as long as it is done right. At this point, I can't imagine it being done right. If Hogan has actually been to some big cities like he said, then he has not used anything he has seen so far in his developments and I am not going to expect him to do so with this. If he does, good, I'll be surprised and I'll even bowl at his place, but I fully expect him to build a small Brunkswick right on the canal. He has compromised with everything else and I doubt he'll do it right this time. I'm not even expecting the pool to actually happen. Basically, if it's cool, I doubt he'll actually do it.

[Patrick]

BDP, I agree with you. Unfortunately, when I think of Hogan and bowling, I don't think of this 10 pin that's being mentioned. I think of an old smokey bowling alley out in the suburb. I hope Hogan proves me wrong.

[dj_ango]

Hogan is merely the developer of the building...not the developer of the bowling lounge business. The developers of the bowling lounge have been working on this idea for a couple of years. The concept they are doing is similar to the cool places that have been mentioned on this thread.

[Patrick]

I'm a little lost by your comment. Hogan is overseeing the entire Lower Bricktown development. That means he picks and chooses his tenants. The reason we have a suburban movie theater, large big box fishing store with a massive parking lot, and 1 story restaurant buildings and weak restaurants is because Hogan brought them there.

[fromdust]

i like this idea.

[swake]

Wow, you are adding cheap fake stucco apartments built over a bowling alley to "Lower" Bricktown. So, now you have Toby Keith's (who has a new album coming out called "White Trash with Money", Bass Pro, a Bowling Alley, a huge multi-plex and a Starbucks. How Urban and upscale!

Oh, urban and upscale must be the Starbuck's...........Do all the surface lots make sure the spaces are wide enough for the f-350 pickups?

Really awesome!

I think maybe you should start protesting and having a drive to get more people to be active in local politics. What do you think?

Tulsa's political climate might be harsh, but at least questions are asked and issues are raised. I don't think anyone is watching over anything in OKC. You people are getting screwed, badly, and you don't even see it.

What percentage was your congressman (oh wait, mayor, got ahead of myself) reelected with? Do you think maybe some of these items and the problems you have with the urban renewal authority might be laid at the feet of the mayor, and city governace as a whole, and the very few that vote just vote lockstepped with what the Dissapointment tells you to think?

Bricktown was cool once upon a time, you need to take back your city from people that are only out for a buck and don't care about the result.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ouch! Why the hostile tone? Did someone in this thread say something irritable?

[swake]

Not, it's just maddening to read from afar "oh well" on everything that's done and then see the numbers on the recent elections be so high, I think there is a connection, don't you? You are the ones that should be hostile.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ok. Thanks for your advice.

[shane453]

Cornett is a great mayor. He has great plans for the future of Oklahoma City and he has done an excellent job luring new businesses and the NBA to OKC. I don't think the people here have taken an "oh well" attitude about Lower Bricktown's less-than-Bricktown-quality development- have you seen how many threads there are that are places to complain about Randy Hogan, or the post that was organizing an investigation on OCURA? I don't think that's passiveness.

And Bricktown is still very cool; even Lower Bricktown adds several entertainment options that are not available in an average downtowns. The parking lots are all developable, and when I-40 moves the parking lot behind Harkins (which basically borders I-40, if it doesn't go directly beneath it) will be in excellent condition for a large development. The residential project is small when compared with other residential developments going on downtwon but it's the best quality project for LB so far; the bowling alley is yet another entertainment option on the canal and it will have two levels of retail- finally connecting to the urban feeling of upper Bricktown.

[TheImmortal]

I will have to go wtih swake on this one, while he may be putting an ultra-pessimistic tone to his comments I agree for the most part.

[Patrick]

I don't think anyone is watching over anything in OKC. You people are getting screwed, badly, and you don't even see it.

Oh, we're watching. It's just OCURA isn't much different from the maphia.

[swake]

ok, you don't like OCURA, where do they come from, who appoints them and make the rules for them?

The city, mostly the mayor..........and how big an issue was any of this in your mayors campign?

Your mayor also has likely just traded support for Istook (one of the worst congressmen of all time) in the governs race for Istook's support in a congressional race that would mean you have relected a mayor that intended to serve less than ONE year of this current term. It's slimy all the way around. OCURA is just another example.

Your city, but is all this worth a two year visit from an NBA team that may well have ended up in OKC anyway?

[metro]

swake thanks for gracing us with your wisdom yet again

[swake]

no problem

[Patrick]

One has to remember, many of the people on the OCURA board were appointed by mayors of the past. Sure, the current mayor could boot all of the current OCURA off, but I don't think that would make him too popular. THe ordinary OKCian has no clue about the real story behind OCURA.

[TStheThird]

Swake is the biggest Tulsa troll on the internet. He does not mean to offer criticism. He hates OKC. He is the biggest pro Tulsa homer on the web.

Congrats Swake! You are the man.

[swake]

Look, mayor could have fired, didin't, his fault.


And, tell me I'm wrong on the Istook deal. slimy, et all......

[Patrick]

Look, mayor could have fired, didin't, his fault.


And, tell me I'm wrong on the Istook deal. slimy, et all......

I actually completely agree with you swake.

[writerranger]

It's funny, but I agree with Shane AND some of the pessimism. There is no question that what little real authority the Mayor has was not used effectively during Mick's first term. He DID have an opportunity to change the face of OCURA and the future of Oklahoma City and took a pass. No, it wouldn't have made him popular with some, but it's not his job to be popular, it's to advance the interests of Oklahoma City. The re-election bid and win was wrong if Mick really had his eye on the 5th. With all that said however, there IS still a certain momentum of popular interest in what is happening downtown/Bricktown/LowerBrick, etc. The problem is lack of vision for the FUTURE and the risk of "resting on our laurels." I am optimistic, but a bit jaded with some of the decisions to not make decisions (if that makes sense). While we have every right to be excited at the potential and build on the magnificent progress - we must not let the good 'ole boy network use the prior success to only benefit themselves at the expense of the greater interest of our city.

Bumps along the road, it's certainly not unique to Oklahoma City, but we need to mix the optimism of Shane (in his post above) with the critical eye of watchdogs interested in not allowing backrooms to selfishly hinder future progress.

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[swake]

This is very important for OKC, and if the mayor does leave for congress, urban renewal should be the topic for the upcoming mayor.

Why?

What happens when the crosstown is moved? Lots of land, lots of chances for greatness. But, my guess would be if the current thinking prevails for urban renewal you will just have big box hell.

Sam's/Wal-Mart combo anyone? Hey the idiot LaFortune in Tulsa tried to do that to the East Village in downtown Tulsa, he almost got it donw. It easily could happen in OKC. Don't let it happen.

[okclee]

I actually agree with Swake. Urban renewal should be a top priority for the Mayor.

This is a great website on Urban life and Suburban Life.
http://www.newurbanism.org

[TStheThird]

I too agree with Swake on his points in this thread, but he is still the biggest Tulsa homer on the web... which is a good thing for some.

[BDP]

Swake makes some points, but it is also a very limited view. I hate Lower Bricktown and Hogan as much as the next guy. But that is not the focus of downtown Oklahoma City. It gets a lot of attention because it was a blank canvas that could have been anything and it sucks. Hogan screwed it up, with the city setting the stage with Bass Pro. But it is really a small part of what is going on in terms of OKC’s renewal.

I actually think this new development is the first semi-right step he has made, if he does it right. Bowling alleys sound suburban blah at first, but they have made a huge comeback in many urban centers across the country. They do not cater to blue haired leaguers anymore, but are really very hip bars that happen to have bowling.

I think a problem is the stucco, but then again, slapping new brick on it will not make it look like bricktown, no matter what people think. Honestly, new brick on new buildings look like Edmond, not Bricktown. I think the bigger problem is that it is trying to mesh with a haphazardly planned development in the first place. Even if it was all brick it would be out of place now.

But the bigger picture is that Downtown OKC's urban renewal is not Lower Bricktown, but it is that plus:

Bricktown proper, (which should be seeing some new development on Main St when Walnut opens)
Bricktown Ballpark
The upper canal
The Skrivin
The Colcord
The Ford Center
The Civic Center
The OKCMOA
The Montgomery
Park-Harvey
The Hampton Inn
The Library
Automobile Alley
American Indian Cultural Center
Chesapeake Boathouse and related river activities

With others in line or possible:
The Triangle
The Hill
Mid-town
Tower Theater and Uptown
The Riverside Developments

Lower Bricktown is really just a small and unfortunate part of many spectacular and great things that have happened and are happening. The best part, really, is that OKC has gone from not being much of a city at all to being an extremely well rounded city for its size with many cultural and civic attractions, with many more to come. It is not just a case of building one attraction or facility, hoping it solve all problems, but it has been an act of building a city and it really has been very successful.

As much attention as bricktown and lower bricktown gets, I can honestly say that it's development and success (at least when you look at the numbers, it's a success) has changed my life in OKC the least. The others on that list have effected it and improved it much more. This doesn't mean we should relax on these incompetent developers who are pissing away opportunities to improve it even more, but it also doesn't mean that a stucco bowling alley undoes everything else OKC has done and is doing. They should be ashamed of what they are doing in light of what is going on around them and with what has been given to them, but ignoring the successes of true urban renewal that are happening is exactly what makes these people feel comfortable doing what they do.

The big picture is really that Lower Bricktown sucks more because of the new standards being set all over central OKC. Swake makes good points about what should be done in the future and where the priorities of leadership should lie. The best part, though, is that we actually have examples of what to do in the future.

In my opinion, OCURA, actually should try to not let any development happen in the new space that I-40 will create until greater density is created downtown. Let’s get all of our other assets to be used before we build more. Hotels would be the exception, as we still need more for all of the events we have been getting.

[Pete]

okclee, thanks for sharing that link.

After reading through the site, I ended up ordering several books on Smart Growth and New Urbanization.

I look forward to reading through them, as this is a subject that should be near and dear to any big civic booster.