Chesapeake empire marches on

[redrunner]

Has the Conoco actually be demolished or is redrunner just speculating that it will be?

I found the demo permits for the car wash to the south and the small office building to the east, but nothing for the corner, either a demo or building permit.


An OnCue would need substantially more area than that old Conoco which would explain the other demolition but I am having a hard time understanding why CHK would go through all this trouble for an OnCue. Besides, they still own that land and OnCue always buys their properties.

I was told about Oncue from the current leaseholder of that Conoco. January is their last month of business and I'm sure things will start to get rolling with Oncue. It's no secret that Oncue and CHK are partners with the CNG station just down the street. There is not a decent gas station or convenience store on that strip of Western so I could definitely see why CHK would have an interest in going through all of this trouble for an Oncue.

[Pete]

Thanks for the info redrunner!

I wonder if Oncue is going to take all the CHK property as there is quite a bit there.

[Dustin]

I know OnCue is based in Stillwater but they need to make the one on Western a flagship store.

[warreng88]

I know OnCue is based in Stillwater but they need to make the one on Western a flagship store.

That's the plan

[OKCisOK4me]

Should that make much difference? 44 is squeezed pretty tightly there.

Pete, I didn't want this to get looked over since it was the last post...

[Snowman]

Should that make much difference? 44 is squeezed pretty tightly there.

With the lake not there now, that section is wide enough already to handle eight lanes if they move the ramps to Classen in a diamond configuration, removing the old center lane ramps and adjust the main alignment to take the space of the old ramps. Which would also allow 50th to connect to NW Expressway in both directions and reduce the congestion from ramps on the left lanes with short break zones before sharp turns.

[jdcf]

Snowman, thanks for the previous comments. Two things really grabbed my attention: I-44/Classen ramps on the left side rather than right side and 50th/Classen fiasco. Not sure an elaboration of that discussion belongs right here, but more thoughts about the reconfiguration that Snowman has mentioned would be much appreciated. Seems like almost any changes would be better than what is there now, however, I think the 50th st thing is worse than before. Thanks.

[warreng88]

Guess they snuck that one in, huh? ;-)

In regards to #4 - Western Triangle, if they were to build a hotel on that site after businesses had moved from buildings and so forth, surely Deep Fork Grill would be able to stay... That so seems like a prime location for business, unless Chesapeake builds them some new diggs.

Surely, the land to the north of the Deep Fork Creek is plenty large enough to build a hotel with a moat of parking around it.

DFG is one of AM's favorite places to go eat. He takes people from out of town there. I seriously doubt that place along with Irma's and Flip's are going anywhere.

In regards to the station at 50th and Western, the plan is to tear it down and build a flagship CNG station.

[Spartan]

There will need to be some urban design considerations made for this Oncue. This is the historic strip part of Western Avenue that we're talking about.

[Pete]

Build a flagship CNG station when they just built a CNG station right next to this parcel?


McClendon has been quoted as saying that Irma's will eventually come down. As for Flip's they refuse to sell so CHK has no direct control of that business.

[ABryant]

I'm sure if they build there they will integrate it with the existing CNG station. As for design considerations, I'm sure they will design it however AM wants. After all, the existing station is a uninspiring old building (I frequent this place because of the convenient location to me, and the friendly workers.) To the south of it is the CNG station, and to the North is the High School. East and west is suburban housing.

[swilki]

There will need to be some urban design considerations made for this Oncue. This is the historic strip part of Western Avenue that we're talking about.

"Historic strip of western????" What's historic about a run down gas station, a recently redone high school, fire station, abandoned drive through bank and random law office building across the street?

[Spartan]

"Historic strip of western????" What's historic about a run down gas station, a recently redone high school, fire station, abandoned drive through bank and random law office building across the street?

Holy crap. The level of disregard that you hold OKC in is stunning. In the 90s people looked at Bricktown and all over downtown and described a much worse state of affairs, yet, they still saw the potential that it held. They were visionaries, and OKC is a much better place today because people saw the lasting architectural value in old areas. Do you consider anything in OKC to be a worthwhile endeavor from an urban design standpoint?

Here is the exact same stretch (not even going more than 2 blocks to the south) of Western Avenue that you described:







And that high school you mention, while it lacks impressive frontage directly on Western, is only regarded as one of the best private schools in all of Oklahoma. Let's not forget that this is an upscale corridor.

This is not flashy, extravagant urban architecture. This is very, very simple urban design, yet it works, and yet it maintains a certain charm. Western Avenue is a hub of creative local businesses that don't seem to flourish anywhere else. It is a local treasure, whether you believe it or not. The city is also about to make a large investment in the area with a major streetscape project, paid for in the last GO bond issue. It should commence in a year or two, design is very much underway right now.

There has been quality urban development along Western between 41st and 45th--in order for the northside to develop organically, Western needs to continue to develop and act as a bridge to all of the Chesapeake development. OKC will be a lot nicer city if Chesapeake's empire isn't developed in a vacuum, but instead is a seamless continuation of the rest of OKC (perhaps even a gradual build-up). OKC could easily use the disparate parts it has NOW (Penn/Expwy/Belle Isle area, CHK campus, Western Avenue) and string together one of the best uptown areas in the nation just with better connections between these three parts.

Most Tulsans personally regard the QT station on Peoria (in the midst of Brookside, albeit in the lower-density part of Brookside) as one of the biggest failures of Tulsa urban design. This has the potential to be the exact same thing. I believe if Chesapeake is really going to do all of this first-class, then they need to do this project to a much higher standard. The City needs to hold new development to a higher standard along this vitally important stretch of Western, where density is still being built-up.

[Oil Capital]

Holy crap. The level of disregard that you hold OKC in is stunning.

Pretty hilarious coming from Spartan, who regularly posts lies and gross exaggerations in his efforts to show his own disregard for OKC.

[Oil Capital]

"Historic strip of western????" What's historic about a run down gas station, a recently redone high school, fire station, abandoned drive through bank and random law office building across the street?

Perhaps what Spartan meant to say was that it is "near" an historic strip of Western. Or that the site, if developed with some urban design considerations can help extend a nicely-developing strip of Western...

[Spartan]

Perhaps what Spartan meant to say was that it is "near" an historic strip of Western. Or that the site, if developed with some urban design considerations can help extend a nicely-developing strip of Western...

Aside from the usual polemical ad hominems, I agree with you, Oil Capital.

By the way, I'm usually being little more than realistic. I see Western Ave infill as not just realistic, but inevitable. I do not see OKC getting an airline hub or improving its flight connections as realistic in any way whatsoever. I'm all for dreaming, I just think it needs to be done on earth.

You're right, I am sometimes negative (perhaps almost as negative as you). Yet, I don't think I intentionally negatively mischaracterize districts like Western Avenue so that gas stations can get built instead of quality infill. I just hope that whatever this Oncue ends up looking like, that we don't make the mistake Tulsa is now regretting when it comes to the Brookside QT.

[Oil Capital]

Aside from the usual polemical ad hominems, I agree with you, Oil Capital.

.

Let me make sure everyone can understand what you are now saying... You now say you agree that what you meant was that the OnCue is "near" an historic strip of Western, rather than that it is "the historic strip of Western". So... your rather unhinged diatribe directed at Swilki for his/her failure to see the centrality of the OnCue site to the historic strip was intended to do what, exactly? I mean other than proving to yourself how far beyond the other posters (and all Oklahoma Citians) you are when it comes to understanding urban development.

[OKCisOK4me]

Lets just agree that OnCue can build something on the corner of 50th and Western that will look far more approachable than the Conoco that used to sit there...

[Spartan]

Let me make sure everyone can understand what you are now saying... You now say you agree that what you meant was that the OnCue is "near" an historic strip of Western, rather than that it is "the historic strip of Western". So... your rather unhinged diatribe directed at Swilki for his/her failure to see the centrality of the OnCue site to the historic strip was intended to do what, exactly? I mean other than proving to yourself how far beyond the other posters (and all Oklahoma Citians) you are when it comes to understanding urban development.

Now that's an unhinged diatribe

[swilki]

The Conoco that is there is horrible and should have been torn down the second that ND Foods left their little spot behind it. I also forgot to mention that "beautiful" car wash which is next door and the 7-11 down the street that is even closer to the historic area in my original post. Western is a wonderful area and is one of the most unique in the city, however, there is still much to be desired about some of the businesses that have opened up shop along the route. Hopefully, as more and more young professionals and young families move into Crown Heights and the surrounding area, Western will see a rebirth with more unique businesses opening up shop.

Spartan, I agree that it is NEAR an historic district and hopefully CHK and OnCue will design something that is much more unique than a typical gas station. Since CHK is involved in the project, I would imagine that it will be something different and unique (about as unique as you can get for a gas station).

As far as your personal attack about the level of disregard I hold for OKC, that's offensive. I grew up in Crown Heights, my family owned a store in the shopping center at 50th and Shartel, went to grade school at BJCS, worked at the CVS for want seemed like an eternity while I was in High School and College and, oh yeah, I went to that High School across the street from the CONOCO. So I would say that my roots are firmly planted in OKC and, specifically the Western area. Did I mention that I work at a nonprofit which is helping communities throughout Oklahoma with beautification, environmental and sustainable projects that will have a positive impact (economic and pride)???? Please stop assuming that you are the only one on here with valid points and the only one that cares about OUR city. We are all allowed to have our opinions and don't deserve to be shot down each time we decide to speak up.

[Pete]

Everybody, let's please stop attacking each other and stick to the topic of CHK development and in the broader sense, the Western corridor.

[BoulderSooner]

just a note ... CHK has now demoed one of the final 2 houses along 58th (only 1 left now) ... and the closing of north military and nw 58th has been pushed to the jan 24th council meeting

[warreng88]

McClendon has been quoted as saying that Irma's will eventually come down. As for Flip's they refuse to sell so CHK has no direct control of that business.

I imagine that will not come down anytime soon. It seems AM is most focused on the triangle and the campus. I don't think the area north of the campus is of the biggest importance right now. Plus, he would have to buy everything north of that too.

[Spartan]

The Conoco that is there is horrible and should have been torn down the second that ND Foods left their little spot behind it. I also forgot to mention that "beautiful" car wash which is next door and the 7-11 down the street that is even closer to the historic area in my original post. Western is a wonderful area and is one of the most unique in the city, however, there is still much to be desired about some of the businesses that have opened up shop along the route. Hopefully, as more and more young professionals and young families move into Crown Heights and the surrounding area, Western will see a rebirth with more unique businesses opening up shop.

Spartan, I agree that it is NEAR an historic district and hopefully CHK and OnCue will design something that is much more unique than a typical gas station. Since CHK is involved in the project, I would imagine that it will be something different and unique (about as unique as you can get for a gas station).

As far as your personal attack about the level of disregard I hold for OKC, that's offensive. I grew up in Crown Heights, my family owned a store in the shopping center at 50th and Shartel, went to grade school at BJCS, worked at the CVS for want seemed like an eternity while I was in High School and College and, oh yeah, I went to that High School across the street from the CONOCO. So I would say that my roots are firmly planted in OKC and, specifically the Western area. Did I mention that I work at a nonprofit which is helping communities throughout Oklahoma with beautification, environmental and sustainable projects that will have a positive impact (economic and pride)???? Please stop assuming that you are the only one on here with valid points and the only one that cares about OUR city. We are all allowed to have our opinions and don't deserve to be shot down each time we decide to speak up.

Your last post came off pretty incredulous:

"'Historic strip of western????' What's historic about a run down gas station, a recently redone high school, fire station, abandoned drive through bank and random law office building across the street?"

I didn't know you were so firmly planted along Western, which is great. Sorry if my post seemed like a personal attack (I am never simply trying to attack someone, nor am I self-centered enough to believe that community improvement ideas stop and end with me, in fact you very well might have a LOT more to do with Western than a not-so casual observer like myself lol), but I was just responding to the post you made. We don't have a button on these threads for biographical or background info on the posters making comments, but I thought I could pretty safely detect a derisive tone toward Western Avenue. Here's what I understand to take place:

I suggest that CHK's new development along Western needs to embody the standards that we want Western to go in. Then you say, "Historic Western??? Bah!! That's just a run down strip with some crappy businesses." Which is pretty much exactly what you said.

But I am very relieved that you (nor anyone else I hope) don't actually believe that about Western Ave.

[OKCTalker]

McClendon has been quoted as saying that Irma's will eventually come down.

Prediction: Irma's will be moved to Nichols Hills Plaza, meeting the demand for the drug store lunch counter that's about to close. Irma's is proven in this area and it will have to go someplace - why not there? Parking certainly wouldn't be any worse than what they currently have.