Bricktown violence problem?

[metro]

There were two shootings this last week, and a few weeks before that, there was a violent fight, that knocked a friend of a friend of mine, unconscious. He still hasn't woke up from acoma.

http://newsok.com/two-shot-in-brickt...rticle/3636873

[Just the facts]

Do police walk the beat in Bricktown? Other than acting as private security for spcial events, is there a consistant visable on the street police presence?

[kevinpate]

JTF, they have a stationhouse in BT, but I don't know their strength of force dedicated to the BT area

[Just the facts]

The reason I ask is that I have visited a few areas recently where large numbers of people were present on a regular basis and I noticed a significant police presence when conditions didn't seem to merit them - which led to be wonder if the police presence is what creates the safe environment in the first place. Criminals are less likely to commit crimes if officers are standing on street corners in every direction.

The argument is often made that police don't prevent crime, they only show up after a crime has been committed. This is true in a society that has police sitting in a squad car or station house waiting for a call to come in. But in places where police are actually walking a beat, their presence does reduce crime in that area. Does that mean the criminals just go to some other location? Maybe, but that is the "other" locations problem to worry about and figure out. They can fund beat officers as well.

While in the National Guard I was doing hurricane duty once and they (local police) had as doing roving patrols. It was so stupid because the looters would just wait for us to pass and knew they had about 4 or 5 minutes before the next patrol would come along. It would have made much more sense to me to stop driving around and just sit in one place with line-of-sight to another stationary patrol – we had the staffing for it. Then if anyone tried to commit a crime they would be in full view of two security details. We would have protected more property, done less driving, and saved fuel.

[kevinpate]

I don't visit BT much these days, as we've been staying in Norman more and more. When we used to visit more regularly, we'd see officers on foot, in cars, and also the BT Ambassadors (goodwill vols with purple shirts, tidbits of info and radios. Never asked, but I presume the radios would permit alerts to the local constables if they saw something.

We never had issues anytime we were in BT, but if there was a hefty crowd we were also usually not a part of it and simply took a different direction, certain music fests excepted.

[rcjunkie]

When the police decided to become more pro-active in Bricktown, they were criticized for it. Not sure what the correct answer to this problem is.

[Just the facts]

When the police decided to become more pro-active in Bricktown, they were criticized for it. Not sure what the correct answer to this problem is.

One thing is for sure, you can't manage an urbanized area the same way you manage suburbia.

When I first went to Rittenhouse Square the police presence made me feel a little nervous. Since police are not part of my daily life and only show up when something bad happens the first thing that crossed my mind when seeing them is that this must be a bad part of town that requires a constant police presence.

The more time I spent there the more the police presence became just part of streetscape and I found that my personal feeling of safety increased even as I ventured away from Rittenhouse Sq. because I knew police were very nearby just waiting to apprehend any troublemakers. And it wasn't just me that felt safer. I often saw women jogging alone in the area or simply walking home from work. After living there for 2 months I would have no problem with my wife and kids walking around Central Philadelphia at any time of night even though Philadelphia has one of the highest murder rates in the country.

[Just the facts]

Here is an interesting read on the subject. It is something to think about as MBG, Central Park, and Prominade Park develop. These parks need to be policed 24/7 to keep them safe and desireable.

http://www.pps.org/great_public_spac...c_place_id=393

[mcca7596]

On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.

[swilki]

On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.

Correct, but I think if you compare the groups of people who frequented Crossroads and those who go to the clubs in Bricktown you will see a resemblance. Let's face it, the night attractions in Bricktown aren't the highest of quality and therefore don't attract the best quality of people. And to me, that is what is creating the problem down there.

[adaniel]

With all due respect, clubs in general don't always attract the highest caliber of people, whether in Bricktown, Quail Springs, Brookside in Tulsa, Dallas, etc. Outside this event, I'm, not sure what the problem is, although I would hope police investigate to make sure this is some domestic event.

We are in a big city. Crime happens. Bricktown has tons of security cameras, as well as a pretty sizable police presence. It is probably one of the safest corners of the city, but like anything open to large crowds a few stupids will slip though. Certainly not something to start hyperventaling about. Didn't someone start firing their gun at Penn Square last year? Obviously it has not affected their crowds.

Oh, and anytime a crime story appears on NewsOk or News 9 I would strongly advise to NOT read the comments. The people that frequent those know nothing, and you will just get blasted with racist, paranoid rants.

[bluedogok]

There was a near riot at a big party in a hotel in Aurora on New Year's Eve, any time you get a large group of people more than likely with some alcohol in them you have a chance of something happening. How many stories are there every where of small parties or family get togethers where there are arguments that go too far, things like that happen everywhere in towns big and small and in any socioeconomic group, race or culture. It is just a fact of life when it comes to human nature, you are always going to have hot heads who can't control themselves. There is a very thin line between civilized and uncivilized behavior.

The Denver Post - New Year's party in Aurora rings in 2012 with fistfights and police shooting

[metro]

The question is BRICKTOWN though, and the fact violent crimes in this district seem to be on the rise.

[kevinpate]

On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.

What is more laughable is that someone thinks that in 2011 or 2012 Crossroads Mall is a place of violence compared to other large shopping venues.

Just for grins and giggles, if anyone can provide documentation that Crossroads has more incidents of reported violence than Penn Square Mall or Quail Springs Mall over the last five years (January 2007- December, 2011) I'll provide you with three restaurant.com gift certificates, one for Bourbon St cafe in BT, one for Nancy's Lighthouse and one for 51st Street Speakeasy.
I might be wrong, but I'm thinking I'll probably be keeping those gift certificates for my own use.

[bluedogok]

It isn't just a Bricktown problem, it is a societal problem. The same issues that affect Bricktown affect Sixth Street, the Red River and Warehouse Districts and other entertainment areas here in Austin. It also affects the 16th Street Mall in Denver and I remember the same discussions about the West End and Deep Ellum in Dallas 20 years ago, the same issues of how to control it exist everywhere. Wasn't it just a couple of summers ago when there was an overwhelming police presence down there that pretty much chased most of the people away from Bricktown? There is a fine line between not enough and too much police presence in any entertainment district to affect the traffic in any given area. No place is ever going to be 100% safe because there are too many idiots in the world.

[adaniel]

The question is BRICKTOWN though, and the fact violent crimes in this district seem to be on the rise.

I'm really not seeing this. I have actually been to Bricktown a couple of times over the past few months, and I haven't frequented Bricktown on a regual basis since 2008. To me it felt quite a bit safer.

A look on News 9 crime tracker showed 4 assaults reported to OKCPD in August 2008. In August 2011 there were 2. Neither figure confirm a district with a crime problem.

[Bellaboo]

What is more laughable is that someone thinks that in 2011 or 2012 Crossroads Mall is a place of violence compared to other large shopping venues.

Just for grins and giggles, if anyone can provide documentation that Crossroads has more incidents of reported violence than Penn Square Mall or Quail Springs Mall over the last five years (January 2007- December, 2011) I'll provide you with three restaurant.com gift certificates, one for Bourbon St cafe in BT, one for Nancy's Lighthouse and one for 51st Street Speakeasy.
I might be wrong, but I'm thinking I'll probably be keeping those gift certificates for my own use.

Probably not in the last 5 years, as folks quit going to Crossroads.

[venture]

Haven't been to Bricktown in a couple of years. Whenever I went, I make it a point that the sun is still up. Last time when I was there at night I had people shooting at each other when I was walking out of Harkins. I think it was the Reggae fest or something that weekend when the folks in their lovely solid colors showed up and started firing. Yeah no thanks. You all can enjoy that, I'll stick to Norman and Moore. :-)

[fsusurfer]

i lived in Bricktown about 5 years ago and there was a similar incident, actually it was posted about on this board. Bricktown is a area where a lot of people meet, hang out, and party. Anytime you have this type of atmosphere things are going to get out of hand from time to time. Doesnt mean the area is going down the tubes.

[BBatesokc]

I'm really not seeing this. I have actually been to Bricktown a couple of times over the past few months, and I haven't frequented Bricktown on a regual basis since 2008. To me it felt quite a bit safer.

A look on News 9 crime tracker showed 4 assaults reported to OKCPD in August 2008. In August 2011 there were 2. Neither figure confirm a district with a crime problem.

I agree, I don't see the safety concern in BT and I'm there quite often. The only time I feel concerned is when large numbers of college age drunks spill out onto the streets. But I don't like crowds in general. I feel far more unsafe walking in my own neighborhood. As a matter of fact, I am unarmed when I'm out taping, but I carry a concealed weapon when I walk my dog.

However, the News9 crime tracker is not a very accurate tool. Not sure how the info is originally compiled or interpreted, but I keep a very accurate database and it never matches up with their online one. Mine tracks not only where the crimes are committed, but also where the criminals (if arrested) lived. Similarly, if someone is relying on the OCPD.com blotter to see all the people booked into the Oklahoma County jail, your missing up to 40% of the actual arrests.

[metro]

Not to mention, he's talking about AUGUST, and my original post was talking about the last 2 months things have been escalating. I never said down the tubes, but things do appear to be becoming more frequent.

[ljbab728]

Not to mention, he's talking about AUGUST, and my original post was talking about the last 2 months things have been escalating. I never said down the tubes, but things do appear to be becoming more frequent.

What additional incidents have there been in the last two months that are out of the ordinary, metro? You mentioned one that involved a friend. Is that the only other incident in Bricktown in the last two months. If so, that doesn't seem that significant.

[soonerguru]

Haven't been to Bricktown in a couple of years. Whenever I went, I make it a point that the sun is still up. Last time when I was there at night I had people shooting at each other when I was walking out of Harkins. I think it was the Reggae fest or something that weekend when the folks in their lovely solid colors showed up and started firing. Yeah no thanks. You all can enjoy that, I'll stick to Norman and Moore. :-)

Wanker.

(smiley)

[metro]

What additional incidents have there been in the last two months that are out of the ordinary, metro? You mentioned one that involved a friend. Is that the only other incident in Bricktown in the last two months. If so, that doesn't seem that significant.

The jumping of a friends friend by a gang, and the two shootings in the last week or so. The cops are also saying bar fights are becoming so common down there, that they just hang out at the main intersections when the bars let out because they don't know what bar they will need to go to. Other than that, when is the last shooting you heard of in Bricktown??

[Midtowner]

metro, if you stay out of certain bars and don't purposely try to get in a fight, you're probably going to be just fine. Violence happens, but very rarely is it random, and very rarely did the victim not do something to instigate the violence in the first place.