Used car contract issues

[Anthony]

I purchased a used car and then 2 days later the head gasket blew due to a pre-existing leak In The antifreeze. I tried to convince the dealership that they should help me pay for the repair considering there were no signs for me to know that there was a leak(no temp. Gauge fluctuation or anything).

I cut my losses and tried selling the car online. When I went to the DMV they told me that the people who sold the car to the dealership did not properly sign the title(whom is out of state). Can I return the car now that the title is invalid?

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

[Thunder]

I believe you have 5 to 7 days to return the car for a full refund. Oklahoma also have a law named Lemon something that deals with vehicles going bad. Seek an attorney immediately. Go back to the dealership and raise hell. Threaten that you will contact the BBB, DA, and other agencies. Yes, I do think they should repair, refund, or exchange. Where is the dealership?

[BBatesokc]

Here is my non-lawyer opinion; The Lemon Law applies to NEW cars and problems that should be covered under warranty.

When you buy a used car its "buyer beware" unless you can prove they knew of the problem and did not disclose it or lied about it.

As for the 'invalid title' - you can contact the Oklahoma Used Car Commission, but I seriously doubt you've found a loop-hole. I also assume they had you sign a purchase agreement that will bind you to the purchase.

I'm guessing at most they will be required to straighten out the title so that you can register the vehicle.

The Used Car Commission can clarify how many days they have to provide you with a clean/valid title.

I buy lots of used cars and only one did I get to back out of - because they could not provide clean title within 30 days. Don't know if that's the law, but it was a big dealership in Edmond and they openly told me they had been lied to about the title and if they couldn't straighten it out within 30 days I could return the car - which I did.

[OKCTalker]

Anthony - Would you mind sharing the dealership name with us? For purely informational purposes only, you understand!

With multiple problems - mechanical & title - you might ask an attorney friend for a favor: Check the laws, and then make a call to the dealership, threatening legal action and bringing in one of the "In your corner" guys if they don't cancel the sale and make you whole by week's end. Why the time pressure? End of month/year for accounting & tax purposes.

Good luck - keep us posted.

[BBatesokc]

Anthony - Would you mind sharing the dealership name with us? For purely informational purposes only, you understand!

With multiple problems - mechanical & title - you might ask an attorney friend for a favor: Check the laws, and then make a call to the dealership, threatening legal action and bringing in one of the "In your corner" guys if they don't cancel the sale and make you whole by week's end. Why the time pressure? End of month/year for accounting & tax purposes.

Good luck - keep us posted.

Yeah, good luck with that. Better hope the dealership is a tiny one. You won't be seeing a large dealership featured on any 'In Your Corner' type newscast as dealerships make up the bulk of ad revenues for tv stations. I dated a consumer reporter with one of the local stations for awhile and she had a stack of complaints against Lynn Hickey, but they were not allowed to pursue any of them. But, get just one complaint about some handyman and they'd crucify him.

Used car dealers are not legally obligated to sell you a car in new condition. They most often get them from auctions, wash them and put them up for sale. Its the buyer's responsibility to have it checked out to make sure there are no existing or obvious issues.

From the dealer's perspective, what's to say you were not responsible for the blown gasket. Or, that you didn't use due diligence and notice the engine temp rising and not stop the car immediately.

I feel your pain. I've bought a lemon or two over the years.

[Thunder]

Brian, she is a horrible consumer reporter and I'm glad the dating relationship failed with her. Your wife is so much better than that woman. I hate it when people/organizations place business relationships first before the consumers.

Anthony, your best bet for buying a used vehicle is going with large dealership or used dealership well known to stand behind their transactions. Also, do research, study the dealership's past by digging up reviews and info online, check with the BBB, ask friends and family...all that work. Some real small dealership owners can actually be quite honest, but better play it safe than sorry by doing the investigative work.

Another suggestion, when you go back with the dealership, declare that you will constantly post warnings on Craigslist about them and post reviews exposing them on here (OKCTalk), that will terrify them severely, and possibly expose them in the newspaper. Two days....that is just only two days....I am 100% confident they are liable to cover the repair costs and should be responsible in doing so. They should at least exchange for another vehicle (if you are not picky).

[RadicalModerate]

Welcome Aboard, Anthony . . .

My (non-lawyeresque) advice:

Picket . . . Don't Charge.
(and when the police are called--by the "miscreant, nameless, auto-dealer"--make your case to them.)

Be sure, during the picketing not to lay down in the driveway.

Dealers--even auto--such as those with whom you chose to deal are notoriously unkind and unforgiving.
Not to mention the innocent customers of [said] establishment. =)
All of whom (that is the innocent ones) would be held harmless under Common Law.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be thinkin' serious about suing for Title Fraud.
Just to get the ball rolling . . . Maybe even a classless action suit. =)

[BBatesokc]

That a station-wide decision Thunder. You won't see any stations doing valid negative consumer stories about advertisers.

[Bill Robertson]

Brian, again, is correct. When you buy a used car it's physically your baby as soon as it's off the lot. Unless you can prove fraudulent intent to cover up problems. The title isn't a loop hole either. The dealer is responsible for making the title right but they can get that done.

[Roadhawg]

Put a big sign on the car that says "I BOUGHT THIS POS AT (DEALERS NAME)" and get somebody to tow it back and forth in front of their business.

[Midtowner]

If you signed something saying you were buying "as-is," you're out of luck. Buying used is a gamble like that.

[Thunder]

If you signed something saying you were buying "as-is," you're out of luck. Buying used is a gamble like that.

True, however, dealership are responsible to be upfront with everything. I bought my mobile home "as-is" and was told (guy told Jay - flea market owner) that it doesn't leak. Well, there are two small leaks, so the dealership is responsible to take care of it, which they will. Everything else is up to me to take care of.

The same applies to this guy. He wasn't told of a hidden problem. However, maybe there wasn't a problem and that it just untimely happened 2 days after purchase. It is hard to determine such situation.

[kevinpate]

T,
In circumstances where a dealer sells something 'as is' the dealer is being upfront. It's shorthand for 'there it is, where it sits, for X amount. If you wanna buy it, fork over the funds. If you wanna know more about what you are buying first, hey, why not, but that's all on you pardner. You can pay to have it check out, or not, as you choose, but once you buy it, you have bought it just like it sits right there, right now and i give no assurances one way or another about exactly how it sits.

I could be wrong on the faulty title, but I think the only remedy is notify the dealer and it is their headache to get a clear title. Not an area I mess with though and I've not gone and done any looking on the matter.

[Midtowner]

True, however, dealership are responsible to be upfront with everything. I bought my mobile home "as-is" and was told (guy told Jay - flea market owner) that it doesn't leak. Well, there are two small leaks, so the dealership is responsible to take care of it, which they will. Everything else is up to me to take care of.

The same applies to this guy. He wasn't told of a hidden problem. However, maybe there wasn't a problem and that it just untimely happened 2 days after purchase. It is hard to determine such situation.

Nah, if it says "as is," then that writing controls. Any side conversations you had are immaterial. If you don't want to buy something as is, don't do it.

[Thunder]

Nah, if it says "as is," then that writing controls. Any side conversations you had are immaterial. If you don't want to buy something as is, don't do it.

I bought it and happy with it. They're fixing it. I would've paid to fix it anyway, but they're going to work on it. No problem for me.

[zuluwarrior0760]

good luck

[soonerguru]

This doesn't sound like a reputable dealership if they won't work with you. That said, was this an old junker on the back lot that you bought for cash? If so, I think you're not analyzing the risk associated with buying a high-mileage car or one that is more than say five years old, if those descriptions fit your car.

Was this a dealership that sells new and used cars? If so, I find it hard they would risk their reputation over this repair. Please provide more details.

[SoonerDave]

I believe you have 5 to 7 days to return the car for a full refund. Oklahoma also have a law named Lemon something that deals with vehicles going bad. Seek an attorney immediately. Go back to the dealership and raise hell. Threaten that you will contact the BBB, DA, and other agencies. Yes, I do think they should repair, refund, or exchange. Where is the dealership?

Nope. An as-is sale is an as-is sale. You're out of luck on any kind of mechanical failure in the absence of an express, written warranty. Good luck with that on a used car. Lemon laws apply to new cars. The issue is to protect sellers from the expectation that they are going to be responsible for uncountable repairs for a years-old car - you pay your money, you take your chances.

When I went to the DMV they told me that the people who sold the car to the dealership did not properly sign the title(whom is out of state). Can I return the car now that the title is invalid?

Now....in my clearly non-lawyeresque opinion....the title business is another matter. Unless I'm mistaken (which is entirely possible, although I don't think so in this case) even the sale of an otherwise (mechanically) as-is vehicle carries with it the implied warranty of title- that you can transfer the title into your name and legally own the vehicle. If you can't transfer the title, you can't own it, so the breach would go back to the seller as they were never legally able to sell it to you in the first place. That makes it a seller's breach, meaning the sales contract couldn't be executed. You should definitely take that little opinion to an actual lawyer, of course, for actual legal advice :0) If it were me, I'd darned sure at least explore the possibility of an action against the selling dealership solely on that basis. You'll never get anywhere on the mechanical failure issue, imho.

[Achilleslastand]

Yeah, good luck with that. Better hope the dealership is a tiny one. You won't be seeing a large dealership featured on any 'In Your Corner' type newscast as dealerships make up the bulk of ad revenues for tv stations. I dated a consumer reporter with one of the local stations for awhile and she had a stack of complaints against Lynn Hickey, but they were not allowed to pursue any of them. But, get just one complaint about some handyman and they'd crucify him.

Used car dealers are not legally obligated to sell you a car in new condition. They most often get them from auctions, wash them and put them up for sale. Its the buyer's responsibility to have it checked out to make sure there are no existing or obvious issues.

From the dealer's perspective, what's to say you were not responsible for the blown gasket. Or, that you didn't use due diligence and notice the engine temp rising and not stop the car immediately.

I feel your pain. I've bought a lemon or two over the years.

Lynn Hickey.....Now thats a name i havnt heard in a while. Ive heard many stories about his fantastic customer service and horrible business practices. He always had Tom Park? up in the van hoisted about 100 feet above ground i believe.
You are correct tho.....most used car dealers frequent the auctions where they buy a 500 dollar vehicle then do a few hundred dollars of repairs and a detail job and turn around and sell it for 3200.00.

[BBatesokc]

Now....in my clearly non-lawyeresque opinion....the title business is another matter. Unless I'm mistaken (which is entirely possible, although I don't think so in this case) even the sale of an otherwise (mechanically) as-is vehicle carries with it the implied warranty of title- that you can transfer the title into your name and legally own the vehicle. If you can't transfer the title, you can't own it, so the breach would go back to the seller as they were never legally able to sell it to you in the first place. That makes it a seller's breach, meaning the sales contract couldn't be executed. You should definitely take that little opinion to an actual lawyer, of course, for actual legal advice :0) If it were me, I'd darned sure at least explore the possibility of an action against the selling dealership solely on that basis. You'll never get anywhere on the mechanical failure issue, imho.

There is a huge difference between a title that needs straightening out and one that cannot be transferred. I've never seen a title that could't be 'fixed' or straightened out. The dealer will be obligated to give you a clean transferrable title, and I'm sure he can do just that. Any rub might come in how long he legally has to 'make it right.'

[Bill Robertson]

Lynn Hickey.....Now thats a name i havnt heard in a while.

I grew up in that aera of town and even stayed into my 30s. I knew Lynn Hickey Dodge well. They actually put tire spikes in the drive at one point so if you came in you had to be let out.

[SoonerDave]

There is a huge difference between a title that needs straightening out and one that cannot be transferred. I've never seen a title that could't be 'fixed' or straightened out. The dealer will be obligated to give you a clean transferrable title, and I'm sure he can do just that. Any rub might come in how long he legally has to 'make it right.'

They may well be able to "fix" the title quickly (whether that's done, ahem, legally is another matter), but the entire scenario points out just how important it is to get a title to a new (to you) car transferred ASAP to expose problems like this. If nothing else, the faulty title could surely be used as leverage against the dealer to fix the car if that cost is substantially lower than the purchase price. Otherwise, I'd darned sure give a lawsuit to rescind the deal every chance I could within the limits of practicality.

[OKCRT]

I remember one time I pulled into the Lynn Hickey store and the sales vultures just started surrounding the car. I mean these guys were coming out of nowhere. I started to just turn around and leave and they had big tire spikes in the ground. I couldn't hardly believe what I was seeing. It was like a horror movie with Zombies coming toward you from everywhere. I told them that I was just pulling in to turn around and they still tried to sell me a car. It was not easy to get out of that place once you are in the lot.