Boathouse Row

[lasomeday]

Well first off, how do you think you're going to keep the grass happy? The water level fluctuates because, oh yea, it's a flood control device. So pull the water level down and the types of grass that do live off river water would die very quickly. Secondly, if you've ever had any sort of environmental science education, you'd know a few things to add to that arguement. 1 - straight line walls are terrible for marine life because they remove habitat. So if they city doesn't want fish there, it's better to keep the smooth edge. 2 - rough surfaces serve as habitats and wave breaks. When was the last time you saw a wave...not a ripple there too? The point for that one goes back to water level. This thing is NOT a river. It's a plugged up creek. People complain about it being the exact same way it has been for years and years because IT'S A FLOOD CONTROL DEVICE! You only notice it now because they plugged it to keep water it on a normal basis. It's #1 job is to channel all that crap for us...remember the "river" didn't even used to go where it is now either...we moved it when we made it mowable. There is absolutely nothing natural about the thing....had it been built 30 years later, chances are it would have been concrete lined!

The poo incident from the stockyards was caused by a company there not properly handling their runnoff. That sort of thing happens with any water source like this. Check out river polution near any industrial site. The company was fined and the problem was corrected. Yes, it still pulls runoff from yards to creeks, to the river and all sorts of other crap. But the water is not unsafe to be in. I wouldn't drink it, but i wouldn't recommend drinking any unfiltered water.

To be, it sounds like you're just trying to rant to throw a wet blanket on something the entire rest of the city seems to be onboard with. Let's leave the landscaping and the science of it all to the professionals who know far more than either you or I. Ands ince your name is LAsomeday....you should be happy we don't have the LA river here....cause that worked out so well for aesthetics...huh.

Actually I do have a degree in an environmental science. I never said lawns I said grasses, AKA Reed grass. It can take drought and swamp conditions. It attracts more fish and beneficial creatures than rocks. The banks could be tapered to reach the shores to allow people access to the waters. People like water! Although the water must be clean before that happens. What makes you think that I am not a professional in the matter? You obviously are not! The river would be more accessible to more people than just rowers if they made it more welcoming to people. Sure it will never be 100% natural, but it could at least look like a river. Just imagine taking your kids to the river to fish or float some boats. The river is dammed so it is more like a lake than a moving river.

I also never said anything about the stock yards. There have been studies that show runnoff from lawns into the concrete drainage system that dominates OKC causes a lot of the ecoli problems. This study had sample points before and after the stockyards.

LA doesn't stand for Los Angeles, but thanks for playing! I actually don't like Los Angeles.

[lasomeday]

lasomeday, maybe you can enlighten us to a more suitable location rather than right next to the currently under construction rowing facilities? Since you know better than everyone involved about every aspect of it and all.

Since you mentioned it, Wheeler Park and Wiley Post Parks and the park between the two that I can't think of the name would be great. I do think critical mass would be nice, but I have been to many events there and parking is a huge issue. If they add more stuff it will take away from the rowing. The two aren't the same, they are different animals that need be fed and nurtured differently. The white water rapids feeding into the smooth waters is not a good thing! So, further up the river would be better. It would also allow for both venues to have events at the same time also creating critical mass for tourists in OKC. Just a thought! The "chamber of commerce days" are few and far between, so having events at the same time would be great.

Also, I don't see a lot of room to build apartments in this area as some people suggest. The interstate right of way will take up a lot of the extra space as well as event parking. Parking will be everywhere!

[Architect2010]

Wheeler has a baseball/softball complex taking a vast majority of space up. Improvised soccer fields are a use for the empty fields too. They've recently repaved that park and spruced up the diamonds and their supporting features such as bleachers, fences, etc. Wiley Post has a brand new Sprayground, brand new park, brand new pavilion, new basketball court, and has a pretty large parking lot taking up space in the park. Not to mention that it too, is used largely by picnicking families, soccer, cookouts, etc. These have NOTHING to do with the White Water course and honestly, a structure of that sort put into either of these two parks is entirely out of place in context of their current uses, which are actually quite popular a lot of the time. Keep the white water course in the Boathouse area and create a destination of rowing, kayaking, paddling, rafting, zip-lining, mountain-biking, spectating, etc. Do you see the theme, the white water course fits PERFECTLY with the Boathouse area.

On edit also: The trees of Wiley Post and Wheeler would be a true loss if a white water course was built there. They are beautifully grand and old. No need to spread the tearing out of trees to other areas other than Boathouse Row.

[Bellaboo]

Actually I do have a degree in an environmental science. I never said lawns I said grasses, AKA Reed grass. It can take drought and swamp conditions. It attracts more fish and beneficial creatures than rocks. The banks could be tapered to reach the shores to allow people access to the waters. People like water! Although the water must be clean before that happens. What makes you think that I am not a professional in the matter? You obviously are not! The river would be more accessible to more people than just rowers if they made it more welcoming to people. Sure it will never be 100% natural, but it could at least look like a river. Just imagine taking your kids to the river to fish or float some boats. The river is dammed so it is more like a lake than a moving river.

I also never said anything about the stock yards. There have been studies that show runnoff from lawns into the concrete drainage system that dominates OKC causes a lot of the ecoli problems. This study had sample points before and after the stockyards.

LA doesn't stand for Los Angeles, but thanks for playing! I actually don't like Los Angeles.

LA, you have some good points, and if approached politically, maybe something could get done. The grasses in some of the areas next to the parks (in the river) may make a difference. Call your councilman.......................

BTW - what does 'la' stand for ?

[lasomeday]

Wheeler has a baseball/softball complex taking a vast majority of space up. Improvised soccer fields are a use for the empty fields too. They've recently repaved that park and spruced up the diamonds and their supporting features such as bleachers, fences, etc. Wiley Post has a brand new Sprayground, brand new park, brand new pavilion, new basketball court, and has a pretty large parking lot taking up space in the park. Not to mention that it too, is used largely by picnicking families, soccer, cookouts, etc. These have NOTHING to do with the White Water course and honestly, a structure of that sort put into either of these two parks is entirely out of place in context of their current uses, which are actually quite popular a lot of the time. Keep the white water course in the Boathouse area and create a destination of rowing, kayaking, paddling, rafting, zip-lining, mountain-biking, spectating, etc. Do you see the theme, the white water course fits PERFECTLY with the Boathouse area.

On edit also: The trees of Wiley Post and Wheeler would be a true loss if a white water course was built there. They are beautifully grand and old. No need to spread the tearing out of trees to other areas other than Boathouse Row.

There are more mature trees in the current white water rapids area.

Those were just ideas of places. There are many places along the river to put it. Tulsa has selected a great place for theirs that does not disrupt their rowers.

I was just throwing out ideas. I think having two options is narrow minded seeing how it is just one option fanagled to look like two options. Not that the maps "steering committee" won't pick the worse possible location to benefit their needs like the conventions center.

I personally don't see myself rowing a few miles and then wanting to zip line then do white water rapids in one day. These ideas are great but spacing them out more would allow for more tourism than having one spot.

If the white water rapids drains into the river won't it make waves in the river, so wouldn't they have to "turn" it off to have a rowing event? Just wondering. I haven't seen anything on it.

I am just throwing ideas out there for people to think about. That is what this forum is about?

[mattjank]

If the white water rapids drains into the river won't it make waves in the river, so wouldn't they have to "turn" it off to have a rowing event? Just wondering. I haven't seen anything on it.

They are totally self contained and run on a pump system. No draining into the river, so no disruption of the river for rowing events.

[OKCisOK4me]

I measured the height and width of the course near Charlotte, and its west to east, approximately 2,000ft. at its widest; south to north, approximately 1,600ft at its tallest.

Max capacity for this spot in OKC is west to east, approximately 1,600ft; south to north, approximately 800ft.

To me that's roughly 65% the size of the course in Charlotte, and we're not even working with a square figure here. Our space is probably 45% the size of the course in North Carolina.

There better a helluva design behind this place because I honestly can't see it being as nice or nicer than where the current headquarters are located.

After doing more research, I am noting that there is only one place along the river (and it's not close to Boathouse Row) where a similar sized course can be placed--the old downtown airpark. What's up Grant?? If you want to go bigger, the best shot is going to be Wheeler Park and everything between Western/Walker/New I-40/Oklahoma River. I don't really see the city taking this option cause I doubt they'd like to spend as much. If they did though, they could build New Wheeler Park just east of Western Avenue on the south shore of the river between the airpark and Wiley Post Park. They could revamp the softball fields and make it like a Legends Softball Park or Mitch Park like up in Edmond. It'd be a lot better than what current Wheeler Park is!

[Snowman]

Their is a size comparison between the this site with a few different courses in the meeting this week of the river committee for maps 3. I don't think we have to go bigger or even as large, the biggest percentage of it making it financially viable will be by local and regional use, so comparing it in that way does not matter, long distance tourists and events can bring in some more but neither are likely to bring in enough alone to make if financially viable. As long as it is a quality course and they have a good coaching staff, which are both likely to happen then training at higher levels will likely happen.

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, I'd like to think that the US Kayaking & Whatever organization moving it's headquarters here is to be involved in the design of this course. Who wants to put their home base on top of a trash dump unless you're the king of trash? I doubt they're rowing for that course...

[Fantastic]

LA doesn't stand for Los Angeles, but thanks for playing! I actually don't like Los Angeles.

Louisiana

[lasomeday]

I do love New Orleans, but it is not a place.

[bombermwc]

la if you do have a degree, then youd should realize the error of your points regarding the shoreline. That's pretty much 101 there bud.

And as said, the city isn't looking to encourage fish on the river so making the river an inviting environment for them would be counterproductive. Next time the drain the whole thing and have to repair a dam (which has been done at least once a year) and all the fish and plant life die, i'm sure we'll all be glad you suggested planting millions in landscaping as well. That's just what you are suggesting as well...landscaping. You aren't going to clean up the river with a 1 mile section being altered either....again, ES 101. Look a mile up river close to Meridian and you'll see a completely grasses/wooded/etc. area all the way to Meridian. And that's closest to your "problem areas". Boathouse row is at the end of it where it should be the cleanest after having the most opportunity to be filtered.

[lasomeday]

I am not sure if you know this, but the river has fish in it!

The point of damming the river was to make it more inviting to the citizens of OKC. That is why I voted for it. It is not just for rowing.

There is no error in what I stated. I didn't mention cleaning a mile of the river. I mentioned making the river more inviting and incorpating plant life to help clean the river. It is a long process that the city should really start evaluating. Also, you obviously don't know the natural processes of nature. Plants are used to handling floods and droughts. So, lowering the river will not kill the plants. That is BIO 101.

You obviously don't have a clue what I am talking about. Actually lets take a page out of your playbook and look at what is being done to make the LA river more natural/cleaner and welcome to the citizens of your beloved LA. It is being revitalized to be more welcome and hospitible for plantlife and people. Wow! Where are they going to shoot the movies you think?

http://lariver.org/

This is old news by the way. Many cities are restoring the rivers to be more natural to clean the water as well! Milwaukee, Denver, and other cities are doing it.

Boat Row is not the cleanest area! It has a lot of runnoff feeding in from downtown. Look at the google map and you can see the dirty water coming in. Common sense will tell you that water is not clean.

[kevinpate]

The canal has fish it, or has had some in the past. Haven't been to stroll in a while

[Snowman]

A new boathouse district master plan update is in next tuesdays meeting, new things added:

- proposed whitewater rafting area and course layout looks like this plan is a better fit with option two of the sites the committee was presented but is not exactly aligned with either. it would have a boat house east of OU's in a style similar to the others that could get boats on either the river through a 4th V-cut or the lower lake of the water course.
- already announced sky trail and pavilion
- indicates plans for rock climbing area between pavilion & OU boathouse
- indicates plans for mountain biking area between the parking off 6th and the east west section of Lincoln

[dankrutka]

I'm assuming the boathouse east of OU's is just UCO's, right?

Glad to hear about the rock climbing and mountain biking... diversification!

[Snowman]

I'm assuming the boathouse east of OU's is just UCO's, right?

...

UCO's is still west of OU's. Back when the 3 colleges that signed on was announced their was talk of their be a possible 4th college boathouse but no agreement with a 4th college ever materialized, it looks like they are using some of the planing from that with modifications.

[dankrutka]

What college/university did they think might be the 4th? Surely not OSU?

[Snowman]

What college/university did they think might be the 4th? Surely not OSU?

I don't think it was ever announced

[Pete]

Note in that diagram that the NE section "Potential future parking and Development Site".

Would love to see some housing in that area.

[dankrutka]

Note in that diagram that the NE section "Potential future parking and Development Site".

Would love to see some housing in that area.

Or maybe even some retail that caters to outdoor sports. A bike shop, a watersport shop, etc...

[Just the facts]

The 4th un-named schools was probably the University that never materialized as part of MAPS III planning.

[Rover]

The 4th un-named schools was probably the University that never materialized as part of MAPS III planning.

The OCU Law School?

[Snowman]

Note in that diagram that the NE section "Potential future parking and Development Site".

Would love to see some housing in that area.

Or maybe even some retail that caters to outdoor sports. A bike shop, a watersport shop, etc...

Are their restrictions on what can be done when eminent domain is used in Oklahoma or OKC? I know not everybody was happy about selling their land/house (or at least the prices offered). I could see how dense mixed-use development might be argued for but using that and selling to a bike shop seems harder to argue was for the public good.

[bombermwc]

la - anyway, i gues you haven't been paying attention to what's been transplanted....like the fish than randomly show up in the CLOSED canal. The fish that are in the river now are stuck. It's not a natural environment by it's design...never has been. The whole things has been man made from way back to the 20's. Even then fish couldn't really live there because the water level dropped...and that's why nothing other than bermuda grass grew there either. Nothing else was able to be sustained. It's not rocket science. The river was MOVED to its curent spot to keep it from continuing to flood the city....and why it's shaped the way it is now.

And locks also don't provide a means for fish to move up and down the river, so each section is its own closed ecosystem. I don't really know where you get your information, but if you have the degree you say you do, i'd be interested to know what your profs thought. Its easy to ramble off a "i know beause i have a degree" comment, but when you do know why things are built the way they are then you point how how little you know. Certain decisions on the way the thing is designed are done so to keep things like you want OUT. And the comments you made about things like the stockyards show you haven't been paying attention to recent history either.

Just need to do your homework before you go around criticising everything when the only ammunition you have is "oh i have a degree". Lots of people with degrees in their field don't do well at that job.