Oklahoma City's future skyline

[wschnitt]

I am not saying anything bad about Devon. I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come. Do you disagree?

Look at the torn up streets downtown. Do you think that has turned people away?

[wschnitt]

I am pretty sure the era of 'super block' is over.

I hope so. Cities that have multiple blocks to spare for a project are not healthy cities to start. Look at Detroit. They have at least 4 blocks for every project.

[wschnitt]

I do not think this is that bad because Harvey did not go through to start, but I think it is bad policy.

[MDot]

I am not saying anything bad about Devon. I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come. Do you disagree?

Look at the torn up streets downtown. Do you think that has turned people away?

I do agree with you that it makes it more difficult for visitors for the time being and to answer your question, yes it has turned people away with all the construction. No offense, but it's a little short sighted to be concerned with the present so much and not try to think of what is to come. In other words, think about 2015 and all the people who will be welcome to come Downtown with all these current construction projects wrapping up or completely done, and a very high percentage will be of the ones that decided not to go Downtown because of all the current construction. Not being critical of you wschnitt, just trying to stay on a positive note with the thing that is changing the face of the Urban Core of Oklahoma City. :-)

[mcca7596]

Short blocks are essential and I agree that it would have been great if Harvey had been opened up. It would draw people from the Myriad Gardens north into the heart of downtown.

[OKCisOK4me]

I am not saying anything bad about Devon. I am saying the more difficult a city is to get around, the less likely people will be to come. Do you disagree?

Look at the torn up streets downtown. Do you think that has turned people away?

I will agree that it turns people away from downtown (local residents I know for certain cause that includes me), but how many visitors know of websites like ODOT or here that are going to give them a heads up about dodging certain streets downtown. They'll see that construction, go around it, get to where they're going and be done with it. Surely, they'll realize that a short 1 block segment of replacing a downtown street will be finished if they choose to come back in the future and if they don't, its probably because they're not going to think of it at all.

I agree with MDot. Its short sighted to worry about now, considering that in 3 to 4 years, downtown will be so bright, we're going to have to wear shades! By then you'll be wondering why you toiled over the subject in the first place.

[dankrutka]

I would actually argue that overall Devon has brought way more people downtown.

Number of people that avoided downtown because part of Sheridan is shut down - 7
Number of people that go downtown to see the Devon progress, Myriad Gardens... - 4.2 billion*

*Numbers are not necessarily accurate.

[Thunder]

I would actually argue that overall Devon has brought way more people downtown.

Number of people that avoided downtown because part of Sheridan is shut down - 7
Number of people that go downtown to see the Devon progress, Myriad Gardens... - 4.2 billion*

*Numbers are not necessarily accurate.

Interesting to see sudden population explosion in Oklahoma. :-O

[wschnitt]

I do agree with you that it makes it more difficult for visitors for the time being and to answer your question, yes it has turned people away with all the construction. No offense, but it's a little short sighted to be concerned with the present so much and not try to think of what is to come. In other words, think about 2015 and all the people who will be welcome to come Downtown with all these current construction projects wrapping up or completely done, and a very high percentage will be of the ones that decided not to go Downtown because of all the current construction. Not being critical of you wschnitt, just trying to stay on a positive note with the thing that is changing the face of the Urban Core of Oklahoma City. :-)

I was not really commenting about the current construction as a large problem. I was using it to illustrate the larger idea that the more difficult something is to get to, the less likely people are to go to it. The torn up streets now are worth the end result.

I am pointing out that closed streets from project 180 are the same as closed streets from large multi-block/super block developments in preventing people from easily getting to where they want to go. The closed streets for Project 180 will reopen shortly, but Harvey will never reopen.

[MDot]

I was not really commenting about the current construction as a large problem. I was using it to illustrate the larger idea that the more difficult something is to get to, the less likely people are to go to it. The torn up streets now are worth the end result.

I am pointing out that closed streets from project 180 are the same as closed streets from large multi-block/super block developments in preventing people from easily getting to where they want to go. The closed streets for Project 180 will reopen shortly, but Harvey will never reopen.

Ah, gotcha. Thought you meant that everything going on right now is making everyone avoid Downtown. Sorry, shoulda read more into it then that one comment.

[Rover]

The length of the block isn't the sole issue. There are many, many long blocks in NYC and lots of people walking them. If there is something to go to on the other end of the walk that is worthwhile people will walk. If there are interesting things or important things on those long blocks, people will walk them.

[KayneMo]

Too bad this skyscraper was never built... Looks beautiful! It would've really added to the current skyline. That looks, what, around the height of Chase (500')?

[BoulderSooner]

what was that project called?? and by whom?

[G.Walker]

I think it was part of the Pei Plan from the 60's, would have like to seen this also implemented from the Pei Plan:

[Steve]

Looks like someone has been pulling images from the book "OKC Second Time Around" without reading it....

[Just the facts]

A grade separated park and a 5 lane one-way street - no thanks. OKC dodged a huge bullet with the Pei Plan.

[DelCamino]

Looks like someone has been pulling images from the book "OKC Second Time Around" without reading it....

lol. You're right, Steve. That seem's to be very common here.

I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'? I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office). It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line. Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower. I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...

[Bellaboo]

There was also a 34 story building announced, a real cool looking building, half office, half hotel where the Ren. Hotel is today next to Mid-Continent. Oil bust got it though.

[Steve]

lol. You're right, Steve. That seem's to be very common here.

I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'? I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office). It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line. Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower. I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...

That's one I never heard of. Yes, I'd love to see the clippings on that!

[Just the facts]

lol. You're right, Steve. That seem's to be very common here.

I've been meaning to mention to you when we see each other.....do you remember/know about the 'Oklahoma Commerce Tower'? I've never seen you mention it - a 20-something story building announced in late 1981, to be built by Don Kasperiet at the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (on the site of Don Batchelor's office, old urban renewal office). It was a nice looking proposal, for the 80's, with the top to be curved and match the street/curb line. Would have been a similar size to the Penn Bank tower. I have some press clippings from the OK on it, if you're interested...

Thank you - I have been racking my brain to remember the details of that building. I think the rendering even made the front page of the Oklahoman back then. If I remember correctly, it was going to be the home of First Interstate Bank (now part of Wells Fargo). Of course, we all know what happened 6 months later.

[DelCamino]

Steve, I've copied articles from that era onto Word and will email them to you. I think it's some good reading. Meanwhile, here's some quick info about that tower:

From Sunday Dec. 6, 1981 (front page of the biz section, I think)...

"....A third office building downtown is scheduled to be built, starting early in 1982. Don Kaspereit, president of Development Planning Inc., said the 21-story Oklahoma Commerce Tower at North Harvey and Kerr will be completed and ready for occupancy in 1983.

Kaspereit bought the former Security Federal Savings & Loan Association building from Sooner Federal Savings & Loan Association for approximately $800,000 earlier this year.

The present building on the 87 1/2- by 100-foot tract will be demolished, he said."....

Photo is about the best I can do....

[Steve]

Interesting....

[Pete]

That must have been for the NW corner of Harvey & Kerr:

[Bellaboo]

I remember that as far as they got was to strip the furnishings and fixtures from this building. My neighbor's son was one of 3 partners with Don Kaspereit.

[UnFrSaKn]

Looks like it. The garage behind the skyscraper is still there, if you do a StreetView.